Why do non 33 degree masonic members rant about what all the symbolism & secrets mean

Originally posted by solidgear
Still more sidestepping of issues, I love how it just continually occurs.

What "issues" solidgear? Point some out. The silly vomit continually spouted about Freemasonry by non-members, who more often than not couldn't possibly comprehend it and wouldn't qualify for membership in the first place?

That's the *real* issue here. The snotty post from that other individual above (and your recent one) have NOTHING to do with conspiracy. Read the FAQ about this site. It's about CONSPIRACY It's not about what a circle a triangle a square and a dodecahedron [ahem] *REALLY* represents.

Why don't you get to the point? What "issue" would you like clarified? (and preferably let it be one that hasn't been dragged to a horrific death on this site already) k?

[edit on 11-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by Appak
It's not about what a circle a triangle a square and a dodecahedron [ahem] *REALLY* represents.

circle, triangle, and square eh? sounds like a sony playstation controller...
the dodecahedron even kind of looks like an X if you really stretch your imagination

circle


triangle


square


dodecahedron


all compiled on top of each other

so do masons condemn the occult & all it's links to it's craft, & would you seperate from the orange lodges in northern ireland due to there bigoted preachings & lifestyles which place catholics in a lower class?

www.freemasonrywatch.org...
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

one & the same with the position of the supreme council 33rd degree temple in the position where the illuminating candle would be thought of as being North, as above the goat heads head.

Originally posted by solidgear
www.freemasonrywatch.org...
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

one & the same with the position of the supreme council 33rd degree temple in the position where the illuminating candle would be thought of as being North, as above the goat heads head.

I for one sure wish you'd go back and read the TONS of posts on this worn-out subject rather than bringing it up again. While you're at it read the TONS of posts that debunk practically EVERYTHING that fremasonrywatch.org posts. You talk about hatred and bigotry on the part of the Orangemen, freemasonrywatch.com is one of the most bigoted, hate-mongering sites on the web. Why is it you LIKE that site but don't like Orangemen? Selective bigotry?

[edit on 11-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by solidgear
so do masons condemn the occult & all it's links to it's craft, & would you seperate from the orange lodges in northern ireland due to there bigoted preachings & lifestyles which place catholics in a lower class?

"Occult" is the study of hidden wisdom and not necessarily evil (although some groups ARE evil)

The Orange Lodges are NOT connected to Masonry and I don't see what this has to do with the original post (which I *believe* was posted by you) If you want to discuss Orangism start a thread (hopefully one that actually has something to do with conspiracy)

There are certianly Masons who are Orangemen. I believe this to be a conflict of interest, so to speak, but then again there were Masons in the past who were Klansmen as well. The two are not (in my opinion) compatible, but just because they have overlapping members does not mean there's a direct or "official" connection.

What is so difficult to understand about that?

www.nireland.com...

So this guy is a lier?

Oh & did i say i hated freemasons? No sir i did not.

Originally posted by solidgear
www.nireland.com...

So this guy is a lier?

Oh & did i say i hated freemasons? No sir i did not.

I don't know that "guy" Do you? What I know about is Freemasonry. (and personally I'm leery of ANYTHING "evangelical"

out of curiosity, what is the conflict of interest between masons and orangemen?


unfortunately i know nothing about orangemen.

give me a break..masons defending under the name of albert pike? his quotes on the world wars would therefore make it seem quite plotted, and with masonry practically similar to judaism well then it ends up being not too big of a surprise..what do you guys have to say to the kkk links to albert pike..ah those innocent, equal knowing to lower degree, 33 degree masons

Doc Marquis

Im sure you will find a great deal about many of your heros Here
including the redoubtable Doc.

Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled ..

with out doubt to protect themselves and their beliefs and learning from YOUR ancestors
and others of their ILK.

Okay, call yourselves what you will, Lokk at northern Ireland, Full of Lodges & promotes bigotry & hatred on catholics(Now that is evil)

perhaps this is a continuation of a 500 year old fight that began for reasons having nothing to do with religion?

Don't you know what the Trinity is?

Isis/Osiris/Horus ?

but then again there were Masons in the past who were Klansmen as well. The two are not (in my opinion) compatible,

But then again the Clan ( Knights of The Kuklos Klan) was not in the beginning what
it has become today. The Klan of Pikes time was disbanded by its founder N.B. Forrest and reformed several years later by others.

what do you guys have to say to the kkk links to albert pike

SEE ABOVE.

I think some of us just enjoy controversy, as well as arguing.

Not to mention the enjoyment of seeing those so ignorant they are not
even capable of using a spell checker claim supreme knowledge.

Originally posted by invisibleplane
give me a break..

Oh, I didn't realize you were so actively involved in this thread as to need one, but it's OK with me, if it's OK with the others.

masons defending under the name of albert pike?

Uhm, where? When? What does Pike have to do with the discussion at hand. Is Pike the ONLY Mason that non-Masons are aware of? One thing about it the poor man will certainly be immortal because non-Masons just can't get over him.

his quotes on the world wars

Uhm, WHAT "quotes on the world wars"? You ARE aware that Pike died in 1891 SEVERAL years BEFORE even the First World War began? Yeah, I know what you're talking about, the silly nonsense of Pike's "vision" etc. Here's some jibberish (and other nonsense) about it if you want a good chuckle:

threeworldwars.com...

Be warned though, it is possible to clutter ones mind with too much such dribble.

would therefore make it seem quite plotted,

Only to the extremely paranoid

and with masonry practically similar to judaism well then it ends up being not too big of a surprise..

Pray what does "pratically similar" mean?

what do you guys have to say to the kkk links to albert pike..

I don't have anything to say about it because there's no proof (and don't try to "Google up" some proof either, because I can "Google up" proof otherwise. This has been discussed on this forum quite a bit in the past by the way and isn't the topic of this thread?

ah those innocent, equal knowing to lower degree, 33 degree masons

Are you saying there are Scottish Rite Degrees beyond the 33rd? Because there aren't.

Appak allow us to continue the game of ‘he said … she said’
You have an advantage in this game however Appak, your ancestors have proven that this game is second nature for them.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are ALL card carrying members belonging to the Trinity of Conflict, the Mid-East dysfunctional family, the house of cards built by Abraham that seeks to fulfill a destiny as laid out in script.
The script we find in scripture.

HIStory suggests your ancestors play ‘he said, she said’ very, very well…there is a game in progress…been going on for about 2000 years…Oy vey.

Let’s go…

I said:

I am glad you are active in your Church...it probably requires some house cleaning...(sorry)

you said:

Daily, believe me.

Fortunately I live in a large enough community that the Mass is celebrated daily.

Pax I would also suspect a keen initiate of so many different disciplines would be living with acute awareness.
I took a shot at your corrupt and morally depraved priests and Church in my reference to the Church needing a 'house cleaning'...I thought it was obvious, I will apologize again, but I felt I needed to point that out...living with awareness...then the Vietnams and Iraqs would not happen...no volunteers...too aware...gone fishing with you know who!

you said:

And I am keenly aware what the Bible says about pride.

Good I do not want to see you bragging again then.

I said:

Please Wow me with some 33-degree insight, please show me a sign you are worthy of my valuable time.

you said:

What a snotty remark. What makes you think YOU worthy of MY valuable time?

You responding to my lengthy post was a definite clue.
And again, may I extend to all 33 degree True Blue Lodge Masons an invitation to play show and tell.
You first…again I will ask politely.

Here is a question for of the enlightened 33 degree Masons.
Please explain the REAL significance of the 3 geometric shapes triangle, square and circle…I mean the real significance.

you said:

In what context? Are you purporting to have some "secret Masonic" knowledge of them? They appear in MANY degrees (with varying explanation).

You are very reluctant to share.
Share with me what you know.
I guarantee you I can add to anything you have to offer.
I have essentially spent 2 years in a cave of my own design.
Turned off all the distractions that keep your little secret societies so mysterious.
So therefore I have not been effectively diverted from seeing the patterns that do in fact exist.
You have listed your long list of accomplishments Pax…and I confess I have no ‘shingles’ with which to provide shelter for my temple, housing my ego.

If you cannot answer the question maybe another ‘Master Mason’ can.
Hmm
Let’s wait and see.

you said:
This is a conspiracy forum, not a classroom and you certainly aren't MY teacher (I can't speak for others on this list) And quite frankly your pseud-intellectual ramblings don't really impress much, but then I don't impress easily.

This forum is many things…too bad you have that attitude though, it means you miss many lessons, opportunities, gifts and messengers.

If you're truly interested in what you've posted, it's easy to research if you're willing to put legitimate time into it. But I MUST warn you, it will involve getting away from your keyboard. And it will be time-consuming.

I am truly interested, maybe even obsessed Pax Vobiscum.
That’s exactly where I was headed though with this little exchange, I do find very little new information here offered by Masons that cannot be found by researching comparative myth, symbols, comparative religion,
And what I have read, suggests that what your organization the Masons offer, is SIMPLY the same esoteric information every other organization offers. I.e. the Wiccans, the Kabbalists, the Alchemists, the Hindu etc…the core is the same.
I can only conclude that these Scottish Men have the Rites to wear kilts, their secrets cloaked in mystery have us sheeple and seagulliables thinking they are indeed a chosen, unique brotherhood.
Or is it eunuch brotherhood?
Another mystery….do those who seek the Power and The Glory have no balls?

Please tell me what a Master / 33 degree Mason knows that me, a hack with a library card cannot research…please HELP me Pax, I am looking for a shortcut to enlightment.
My overdue fees are killing me.

Help me and I promise to help you.

Namaste

Raphael

p.s. HIStory suggests that the game of ‘he said, she said’, was altered by the Vatican’s lawyers to become known as ‘hear say evidence’.

And after the Council of I-say-ah convened, they decreed that the game called ‘Hear say evidence’ would from that point on be known as ‘Heresy’ and the winners of the game called Heresy were also decreed pagan, witch, heathen, (you fill in the blank), and thus eliminated.

I don't have a horse in this race. I have no interest in secret clubs. I do have one question for members that I have been curious about. If a fellow Free Mason commits a criminal act would you turn them in to the authorities? There are only two possible answers - yes or no - since anything other than yes is in fact a no.

Originally posted by Kachina
Appak allow us to continue the game of ‘he said … she said’

No time for games. You play. I'll watch.

Pax I would also suspect a keen initiate of so many different disciplines would be living with acute awareness.
I took a shot at your corrupt and morally depraved priests and Church in my reference to the Church needing a 'house cleaning'

Who is "Pax"? As far as the church, yes, it has human beings in it and is far from perfect. Doesn't make the whole institution corrupt, though. Sorry you feel that way, but it's not my place to try and sway you.

Good I do not want to see you bragging again then.

I'll try to behave.

You are very reluctant to share.
Share with me what you know.
I guarantee you I can add to anything you have to offer.

I don't know what you're asking. Masonic symbolism? There's TONS of it, much of it is written by members offering their own interpretation. You see, there is NOT always ONE explanation.

I have essentially spent 2 years in a cave of my own design.
Turned off all the distractions that keep your little secret societies so mysterious.

See, that's where you're confused. Our "little secret society" is actually just a "BIG FRATERNITY" If it were a "secret society" you wouldn't know for a fact that it existed. See?

You have listed your long list of accomplishments Pax…and I confess I have no ‘shingles’ with which to provide shelter for my temple, housing my ego.

Clever insults really aren't becoming and again, who's "Pax?"

If you cannot answer the question maybe another ‘Master Mason’ can.
Hmm Let’s wait and see.

The suspense is killing me.

This forum is many things…too bad you have that attitude though, it means you miss many lessons, opportunities, gifts and messengers.

No. If you'll check out the FAQ, you'll find that this is, indeed, a conspiracy forum. I'm almost positive.

I am truly interested, maybe even obsessed Pax Vobiscum.

Ah. I recognize ol' Pax now. Pax Vobiscum means "Peace be with you" It's not a name or a user id, just a bit of Latin.

That’s exactly where I was headed though with this little exchange, I do find very little new information here offered by Masons that cannot be found by researching comparative myth, symbols, comparative religion,
And what I have read, suggests that what your organization the Masons offer, is SIMPLY the same esoteric information every other organization offers. I.e. the Wiccans, the Kabbalists, the Alchemists, the Hindu etc…the core is the same.

Actually you're quite right. Makes you wonder why we get so much, er..."credit" for lack of better word, huh?

I can only conclude that these Scottish Men have the Rites to wear kilts,

Actually the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite is not Ancient (it was founded in 1801) it's not Scottish either. It's a combination of French, German and 'conjecture' I suppose it is "Accepted" though (by most Masons anyway)

their secrets cloaked in mystery have us sheeple and seagulliables thinking they are indeed a chosen, unique brotherhood.

We don't allow sheeple. Just yaks.

Or is it eunuch brotherhood?

God, I hope not. If so I'll have a heckuva time explaining my daughter and two sons.

Another mystery….do those who seek the Power and The Glory have no balls?

As one who doesn't "seek the Power and The Glory" I couldn't answer that.

Please tell me what a Master / 33 degree Mason knows that me, a hack with a library card cannot research…please HELP me Pax, I am looking for a shortcut to enlightment. My overdue fees are killing me.

If you're actually researching, you're on the right track. But there's no short cut. Keep on hackin'

Help me and I promise to help you.

I appreciate that. I need a lot of help.

p.s. HIStory suggests that the game of ‘he said, she said’, was altered by the Vatican’s lawyers to become known as ‘hear say evidence’.

You could be right. I firmly believe that lawyers are capable of damn-near anything.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I don't have a horse in this race. I have no interest in secret clubs. I do have one question for members that I have been curious about. If a fellow Free Mason commits a criminal act would you turn them in to the authorities? There are only two possible answers - yes or no - since anything other than yes is in fact a no.

Yes.

I have to add more than just that, lest I get 'dinged' for a one-word reply which is a no-no. To do otherwise is violation of Masonic code. We are to be "just and upright citizens. True to our government and the laws of our country" (That is explained in the First Degree in most jurisdictions.

Unfortunately, being a human institution, not every Freemason of course, abides by this rule.

Thanks. I accept that. I've looked at this a lot and I believe it is the secrecy that causes all of this. Get rid of the secrecy and all this would go away. I'm surprised that secret oaths and such continue past adolescence though. The helping each other to succeed part is a good thing for members but a discriminatory and bad thing for non-members. There are plenty of good people who are not Masons or interested in becoming Masons and I think any form of nepotism is inherently wrong even if it is legal. Look what this tribalist attitude has done to our government. It would appear to be built into our genes and discriminatory groups are to be expected in society. Hopefully some day we will evolve beyond this sort of thing before we destroy ourselves. All warfare throughout history has been based on this we are better than you nonsense. Anything good should be shouted from the rooftops and if you have to hide it; get rid of it before it destroys you. If a belief in a God is a requirement Free Masonry is in fact a religion by definition. To say anything else would be an attempt to hide this fact. I don’t think this is evil, just wrong minded and another excuse for discrimination.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Thanks. I accept that. I've looked at this a lot and I believe it is the secrecy that causes all of this. Get rid of the secrecy and all this would go away.

True, but so would Masonry. It would become just like the Rotary Club or the Lions Club (both great organizations, but not Fraternities)

I'm surprised that secret oaths and such continue past adolescence though.

Why? Those sorts of things have existed for centuries. Adolescents didn't *invent* them, they copy them in their 'secret clubhouses'

The helping each other to succeed part is a good thing for members but a discriminatory and bad thing for non-members.

Helping each other succeed is not what Masonry is about.

There are plenty of good people who are not Masons or interested in becoming Masons and I think any form of nepotism is inherently wrong even if it is legal.

Nepotism is favoritism (particularly in business) shown to relatives. Has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

And as far as nepotism is concerned, I own a family business and was hired by my father years ago. Someday I'll likely hire my son (if he's interested) There's nothing wrong with that form of "nepotism" My family built it, my family will keep it. Pretty simple.

Look what this tribalist attitude has done to our government. It would appear to be built into our genes and discriminatory groups are to be expected in society.

Sometimes discriminatory groups are necessary. I wouldn't want to invite burglars or axe-murderers to become a part of my Neighborhood Watch Association. And quite frankly, some people aren't suitable for membership in the Masonic Fraternity. Some, though suitable, do not have the desire and NO ONE is EVER forced to join (despite what some people on this forum have said in the past)

Hopefully some day we will evolve beyond this sort of thing before we destroy ourselves. All warfare throughout history has been based on this we are better than you nonsense.

I have to agree with you, but it's existed since the dawn of human life as far as we know. In an ideal world I suppose it would be nice if everyone sat down, held hands, sang "Kum Ba Yah" and bought each other a Coke, but it's not likely to happen any time soon. (I hope not because I don't know all the words yet)

Anything good should be shouted from the rooftops

Absolutely, but then again, we don't want to seem boastful, either.

and if you have to hide it; get rid of it before it destroys you.

That's the sad part of the whole "it's a Masonic conspiracy" theme. There IS nothing to hide. There's nothing hidden. Want to know the "secret hand-shake"? Do a Google search. All the philosophies of Freemasonry are public knowledge. The business meetings are closed and are for members only, but try to attend some company's corporate board meeting some day. See if you get into the board room. There are some things that are the concern of the members only.

If a belief in a God is a requirement Free Masonry is in fact a religion by definition. To say anything else would be an attempt to hide this fact.

Beg to differ. Masonry has no "plan of salvation" as some denominations call it. It doesn't offer or claim to "save one's soul" It has no "worship service" doesn't "absolve one's sins" or guarantee "life eternal" so it fails on every count of being a religion.

Mason: "Do you believe there's a God who created all things?"

Prospective Mason: "Why, yes. Yes, I do."

Mason. "Well. OK. I'll ask the Lodge members to let you join."

Prospective Mason: "OK. Thanks"

(Yeah, it's a bit more complicated, but not much)

I don’t think this is evil, just wrong minded and another excuse for discrimination.

You're certainly entitled to think that. But again, there are times when discrimination is necessary. Freemasonry is very important to me (despite what some people think of it) and I wouldn't want just anyone off the street to be allowed to join. (Referring back to the burglar/axe-murder statement above) Not everyone is qualified.


(edit for spelling) (I mean, why not? There IS a spell checker after all)

[edit on 13-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Thanks. I accept that.

Good. 'Cuz I wouldn't want to have to come up there and smite ya! I'll second Appak's post on that matter.

Originally posted by Blaine91555I've looked at this a lot and I believe it is the secrecy that causes all of this. Get rid of the secrecy and all this would go away.

Masonry is about maturing and the acquisition of knowledge and experience as one grows in life. The 'secrets' of Masonry are similar to the 'secrets' of life; it takes time to acquire them and they're of no value if the answer is simply handed to you. And there's always going to be a certain sort of individual that'll insist that, no matter how transparent an organization is, there are secrets that aren't being divulged. Damned if you do......

Well, it's the same old, same old. This thread should be locked as there is simply countering of statements, Yes indeed the christian Church is full of human beings, But a lot of those are spiritual beings, who belong to a Triune God as set out in the Holy Scriptures of what is called the Holy Bible, & what is more, God enlightens those of us with his Word & Holy Spirit. I am thankful that I don't rely on other humans of the church to keep secrets from me. Rather the Scriptures & the Holy Spirit confirm Gods truth in my heart & life choices.

Masons you are entitled to your mind games & so called fraternity, However, Don't think we can all be fulled into some scense of accepting your so called inocence as a society. Infact I don't blame you for defending so vigourisly your brotherhood, as my personal opinion is that those who are in the higher echelons of masonry are privy to dark secrets, but these are special individuals, I would contend that masons who partake in this forums discussion are at a level where they have reached deeper secrets of the brotherhood. Yes even master masons serve a role in the comunity which they live & work in, however (Government individuals, ETC who have been generationally inducted into the brotherhood) are more likely to be aware of those darker manipulations set in place. "you simply have to look at americas founding fathers & the rise of Corperations".

Regards to all.