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Jesus is God, I don't think so

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posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 04:12 PM
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Over the continueing battle of whether Jesus was God or not.
I don't believe he was. Now remember this is my opinion.
Using the KJB in and of itself it clearly states that Jesus is not God. So I wonder, why people are worshiping the idol of Jesus.
There are 8 or less verses in the bible that refer to Jesus as possibly God. Over 129 That most are stated by Jesus himself that he is not God. Not God more that you or me.
If I take you to court using your own materials the KJB I could prove that Jesus was not God. Now I am not trying to take your beliefs away. The bible says seek and ye shall know the truth, but it does not say seek only in the bible. There is alot of truth out there.
I was born a fundamentist and raised the same. At the age of twenty five I was struck by the "Holy Spirit (the truth)" and it changed my life forever. We each have the truth within us, I just believe that some people are afraid to sway from the known path. I know longer follow the path of any church.
The people that rose up to Jesus and crucified him, didn't understand the message he was trying to pass on, and that goes for quite a few of his followers too.
But then, that is just my opinion.




posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Zaimless
If I take you to court using your own materials the KJB I could prove that Jesus was not God.


Could you please present some of your evidence in this forum?


Originally posted by Zaimless
Now I am not trying to take your beliefs away.


Indeed you won't.



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Zaimless
Over the continueing battle of whether Jesus was God or not.
I don't believe he was. Now remember this is my opinion.
Using the KJB in and of itself it clearly states that Jesus is not God. So I wonder, why people are worshiping the idol of Jesus.
There are 8 or less verses in the bible that refer to Jesus as possibly God. Over 129 That most are stated by Jesus himself that he is not God. Not God more that you or me.
If I take you to court using your own materials the KJB I could prove that Jesus was not God. Now I am not trying to take your beliefs away. The bible says seek and ye shall know the truth, but it does not say seek only in the bible. There is alot of truth out there.
I was born a fundamentist and raised the same. At the age of twenty five I was struck by the "Holy Spirit (the truth)" and it changed my life forever. We each have the truth within us, I just believe that some people are afraid to sway from the known path. I know longer follow the path of any church.
The people that rose up to Jesus and crucified him, didn't understand the message he was trying to pass on, and that goes for quite a few of his followers too.
But then, that is just my opinion.




Jesus told Timothy & Philip he WAS INDEED GOD...
Jhn 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?


Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.


Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.


Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?


Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.


Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


Jhn 14:12 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


Jhn 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it].


Jhn 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.


Why did he tell them to keep his commandments if he were not God?



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 04:35 PM
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I think the Qu'ran, along with... oh... Commandment #1, is pretty clear on the fact that there is only ONE GOD, and you are commanded not to worship any other god. Those who worship prophets (like Jesus) or other symbols (The Holy Spirit) as God are nothing but infidels and blasphemers who are too ignorant to understand the most simple and basic of all commandments. You should pray that they one day see the error of their ways, but people are naturally stubborn. Some will only accept the Truth when they inevitably stand before God and see it for themselves.




posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Enkidu
I think the Qu'ran, along with... oh... Commandment #1, is pretty clear on the fact that there is only ONE GOD, and you are commanded not to worship any other god. Those who worship prophets (like Jesus) or other symbols (The Holy Spirit) as God are nothing but infidels and blasphemers who are too ignorant to understand the most simple and basic of all commandments. You should pray that they one day see the error of their ways, but people are naturally stubborn. Some will only accept the Truth when they inevitably stand before God and see it for themselves.



In another forum/post, you claim you don't believe in God.... NOW you're trying to quote scripture like you're well versed & know what it says.
What is your REAL stance on the subject.

YES there IS ONE God! There are 3 attributes to the SINGLE GOD.
The Father, The Son (Jesus) & The Holy Spirit. All As ONE.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. He was there from the beginning, as was the Holy Spirit.

Also, in the scriptures it says that we are to Worship the Father and the Son.
(Since they are one in the same)

Let me ask you this.
Who created ALL THINGS?
God right?

Good Agreed...

Now read Paul's testimony about the Mystery of Christ..

Eph 3:1 ¶ For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,


Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:


Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,


Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)



Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


Eph 3:8 ¶ Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;


Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,


If Jesus created all things, AND told his disciples to keep HIS commandments, AND said If you have seen the Father, you have seen ME.....

What does that tell you?



posted on Aug, 1 2006 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Zaimless
Over the continueing battle of whether Jesus was God or not.
I don't believe he was. Now remember this is my opinion.
Using the KJB in and of itself it clearly states that Jesus is not God. So I wonder, why people are worshiping the idol of Jesus.
There are 8 or less verses in the bible that refer to Jesus as possibly God. Over 129 That most are stated by Jesus himself that he is not God. Not God more that you or me.
If I take you to court using your own materials the KJB I could prove that Jesus was not God. Now I am not trying to take your beliefs away. The bible says seek and ye shall know the truth, but it does not say seek only in the bible. There is alot of truth out there.
I was born a fundamentist and raised the same. At the age of twenty five I was struck by the "Holy Spirit (the truth)" and it changed my life forever. We each have the truth within us, I just believe that some people are afraid to sway from the known path. I know longer follow the path of any church.
The people that rose up to Jesus and crucified him, didn't understand the message he was trying to pass on, and that goes for quite a few of his followers too.
But then, that is just my opinion.





Futher information from the bible:
Matthew 6:7 "But when thou prayest, enter into they closet, and thou hast shust they door, pary to thy Father which is in secred, and they Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly" The Father God is separater from Jesus.

Matthew 11:25-27 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth because thou had hidst things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto the babes.26 Even so Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delived unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father save the son, and he to whomsoever the son will reveal to him.

This quote distintly makes them two different beings.

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "Oh my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."


To me these and many other (over 100) verses Jesus himself states him and the father as two separate enties. Who was he praying to? Himself? Jesus only became a god after his death, and that was because man made him one. To many people from his time till now have twisted the message he sent. He did not say worship me, I am god, but to find the message he is sending to all of us.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 05:48 AM
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Zaimless,
I totally understand what you're saying, & why you would be confused.

Was Jesus praying to "HIMSELF"?? In essence, Yes, AND No....

There IS only one God. But think of the Trinity..... The 3 distinct attributes/personalities of God. They are all of the same single being.
That's what Paul tries to explain as the Mystery of Godliness, or the Mystery of the Christ.

Let me try to clarify it a little more. (I stress the word TRY here by the way... LOL)

The book of Genesis tells us God says, "Let US Create man in our own likeness".... There is only one God, right? So who was "US"?
.... That's where the interesting part of God comes in.

God IS the Father in Heaven...

God IS Jesus the Son, the Savior; Manifest in the flesh, who came to Earth & preached the Gospel of his Father....

& God IS the Holy Spirit that dwells inside each of us who ask him into our lives.

Believe me, I had a tough time understanding that myself. AND, I also had a hard time accepting that Jesus was indeed God Himself, at first. Then after reading the scriptures as I got older, & had more understanding, I finally "got it" so to speak!

Remember, God knows that we won't understand every single verse in the Bible. He's not going to condemn us because of that. It's not "required", as far as what it takes to gain salvation through Christ, & enter the Kingdom of God.
We're told that accepting Jesus as Lord & Savior, repentance, faith, & knowing that he died on the cross, & arose again to pay for ALL OUR SINS, is what it takes.

So, misunderstanding a few things is normal.... because we're all human, & imperfect. God knows this.
Just pay attention to those key themes in Jesus' words.

)



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 07:35 AM
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Or at least that was the decree of the first ecumenical Nicean Council held around 330 AD. The argument was long and difficult but the Council decided that the Trinity is one God.
www.thunderministries.com...

Very interesting.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:45 AM
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OK,

Rather than JUST quote more scripture for arguments sake this time, I'd like to mainly write you a "personal" note. ;o)

But remember 1st of all, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, & the life. No man shall come to the Father but by me"..... so in essence, there IS only One true (or "known") path.

OK, now from a more personal side......

It's getting tougher to find a church that teaches the "truth", or the doctrines that were originally established. Many of them are "modernizing" the word of God, & are teaching a false message so to speak.
It's no wonder people are more confused about God's word.

However, God is compassionate, & caring, & patient. He is there with open arms to us whenever we stumble. Whether it be with our faith, or anything else.

If you still believe that Jesus IS our savior, & that he was crucified, & rose again for our salvation, all you need to do is just ask him to bring you wisdom, faith, knowledge, & understanding.

I had my own personal "struggles" with the Bible for a while. I read so many other things concerning spiritual exsistence in the "New Age" thinking, that I became confused, & started to wonder if there was something more.....

But after my life hit rock bottom, I asked God why I was being punished, & what was so horrible I had done to deserve this? I told him I needed his help & that I felt abandoned by him......
..... Funny thing was, it was ME who in essence abandoned HIM......
But as soon as I humbled myself, & said I needed him, my life was turned COMPLETELY around! AMAZING!!!

What I'm saying is, it's never too late to ask God for help...... Until it's TOO LATE.

And, one other thing before I sign off for now.........

Nobody cares how much you know, Until they know how much you care. That's why I could quote scripture all day long, & it might not make any difference to anyone. But when you show people that you CARE, they are less likely to put up their defenses, & "HEAR" what you're telling them.

)

So, I hope that might help.





posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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If all things formed out of chaos I guess we would need a messiah or we would be in a formless void of an afterlife. Or in the Kabbalahistic view (run in return) when we die we return to birth or constant rebirth due to the overwhelming nature of God. Would there be rebirth if you believed in Jesus?

Why do we need a antichrist? Why is there a final judgement of people already dead? What does this say about heaven and hell? To me it seems as if they do not yet exsist.

If an Anti Christ came along and started going after everyone it would avoid the world returning to chaos. Since you would be to busy running from and hopefully running to something else.

However if you believe the above it goes against all teachings doesn't it. Now a am leaving behind a deeper point to be learned here.

I think with enough study there is no question of if there was a Moses or Jesus or how things came about. The question is will you bite from the tree of knowledge or have faith.

However I have read to much ate to many drugs and talked to more dead people than I should ever have.lol



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by masonite
If all things formed out of chaos I guess we would need a messiah or we would be in a formless void of an afterlife. Or in the Kabbalahistic view (run in return) when we die we return to birth or constant rebirth due to the overwhelming nature of God. Would there be rebirth if you believed in Jesus?

Why do we need a antichrist? Why is there a final judgement of people already dead? What does this say about heaven and hell? To me it seems as if they do not yet exsist.

If an Anti Christ came along and started going after everyone it would avoid the world returning to chaos. Since you would be to busy running from and hopefully running to something else.

However if you believe the above it goes against all teachings doesn't it. Now a am leaving behind a deeper point to be learned here.

I think with enough study there is no question of if there was a Moses or Jesus or how things came about. The question is will you bite from the tree of knowledge or have faith.

However I have read to much ate to many drugs and talked to more dead people than I should ever have.lol



That LAST LINE sums it up!
I agree you ate too many drugs! LOLOL! (Just teasing...)

On a serious note, I don't think the world was formed out of Chaos. It was created for a reason. (Which is God's)

The Messiah was needed, to bring salvation from sin. (longer explanation has been posted elsewhere)

The AntiChrist/Beast is a deceiver. Uninformed people will be amazed by the miracles he is able to bring, via the false prophet, and many people will assume HE is God, & will begin to worship him by the signs & wonders that happen in site of him. THEN he'll force his "mark" upon the world, & you'll either take it, & show your alegience, OR you'll be killed.

Judging the "dead" people....... They'll face judgement in the resurrection after the Great Tribulation. Remember, God doesn't send people to Hell...... they send themselves there.

As far as eating from the tree..... All I can say is I'm glad I personally don't have to be held responsible for that one!

*WHEW*!!!



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by marko1970

Judging the "dead" people....... They'll face judgement in the resurrection after the Great Tribulation. Remember, God doesn't send people to Hell...... they send themselves there.


Just wondering where these dead people are at this moment? They cant be in heaven or hell because they haven't been judged yet. Maybe they've went to Blackpool on holiday or is it like being put in stasis?
Must be a bit of a bugger for abel (the first dead person) having to wait all this time to be judged.
Can someone give him some change for the fruit machines LOL

G



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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The people that die who HAVE salvation, DO indeed go into Heaven. Their sins are washed away, & are gone & forgiven. Thus they are righteous with God.

Those who willfuly have rejected God, do NOT enter Heaven. (Obviously).
Although "HELL" as we refer to it, (being the Lake of Fire) isn't "opened" yet.
Not until Satan himself is cast into it, along with his followers.

Where the "unsaved" go, from my understanding of the original hebrew word, is "SHEOL".... A "holding place" of torment, so to speak. "Underworld - Abode of the Dead"

It's the "in between" place until hell is "open for business" you could say.....

Like people would refer to Purgatory, or Hades... which are more Paganistic words, but define a similar type of exsistence until Judgement.



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by marko1970
But remember 1st of all, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, & the life. No man shall come to the Father but by me"..... so in essence, there IS only One true (or "known") path.


That does not follow.

As to whether Jesus is/was God, hoo boy. Generally speaking, when religious questions spark a lot of heated discussion, what you find is that neither side knows exactly what they are saying (let alone what the other side is), or what questions are being asked.

"Is Jesus God?" rests on several other unanswered questions.

"What is meant by Jesus?" In other words, do you mean the man who (most likely) lived, preached and was crucified during the early Roman Empire in Palestine? Or do you mean the god-form depicted in many churches and prayed to by Christians? You can assert an underlying identity between these two, but in actual experience they are NOT the same; the historical Jesus, Jesus the man, is someone read about, while the current and experienced Jesus, Jesus the god, is someone prayed to. And it is entirely possible that the answer can be "yes" about Jesus the god, while being "no" about Jesus the man.

Also, there is another question involved: What does it mean, exactly, for a man to be God? How do you draw the boundaries of God? Is anything in creation NOT God? If so, what?

If the statement, "Jesus was God," is more true than the statement, "I am God," in what way is it more true?

Jesus the man was certainly not omnipresent as God is said to be. He was located in one human body. Nor was he omniscient, as there are several Gospel passages showing him to change his mind after argument from his followers, and on one occasion the following happened:



And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. 26She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. 27When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, 28because she thought, "If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed." 29Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.

30At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?"


Mark 5:25-30, New International Version.

That he knew power had expressed itself through him shows considerable psychic sensitivity, to be sure, but if Jesus had been God in a simplistic sense, then being omniscient he would have KNOWN who touched him.

Omnipresence and omniscience are two basic characteristics ascribed to God, but not possessed by Jesus the man.

There is a sense in which Jesus the man certainly was God, but it is the same sense in which everyone is God: God is found at the core of our being, and in the center of the soul, there He/She/It resides. True of Jesus just as much as it is of you or me. And quite arguably, he understood this reality better than most.

Now, let's consider the passage from the Gospel of John that Marco quoted above. Again, this is something that can't be understood simplistically, as all too many Christians do.

"No one comes to the Father but through me," does not imply either, "No one comes through the Father except by worshiping me as a God," nor, "No one comes to the Father except by understanding and following my teachings," and certainly it does not imply "No one comes to the Father except by being a Christian and obeying the teachings of those who claim to follow me, however self-interested, unenlightened, and corrupt they may be."

Christians consider the Crucifiction and Resurrection to be a pair of (what I would call) magical acts. By his sacrifice, Jesus is believed to have cleansed the world of sin, or at least opened the door to such cleansing and forgiveness. By his resurrection, Jesus is believed to have embodied the reward available to all mankind: victory over death and sin and self-destruction.

Now, suppose that this belief on the part of Christians is literally and historically true. (I don't think it is, although I do see that it has mythic truth and validity, but never mind that. Assume, arguendo.) Does that mean that one has to follow Jesus, by that name and in that image, in order to take advantage of these magical acts?

Why?

Suppose that a person is a sincere and devout Muslim (for example) instead. If that Muslim prays to God, and Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection make it possible for him or her to be heard by God, then is not that Muslim coming to the Father through Jesus? Without ever saying Jesus' name or worshiping him, without ever considering him any more than a prophet, is he or she not, just the same, taking the gift that Jesus offered?

Don't assume that you understand what Jesus meant by anything he said. Most Christians do not. He was more enlightened than they, by far, and he often spoke in riddles, appended by "Whoever has an ear, let him hear." Few Christians have ears.

In particular, when a belief about the meaning of something Jesus said serves the selfish power-interests of the Church -- suspect and be skeptical. As in this case.



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Two Steps Forward

Originally posted by marko1970
But remember 1st of all, Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, & the life. No man shall come to the Father but by me"..... so in essence, there IS only One true (or "known") path.


That does not follow.

As to whether Jesus is/was God, hoo boy. Generally speaking, when religious questions spark a lot of heated discussion, what you find is that neither side knows exactly what they are saying (let alone what the other side is), or what questions are being asked.

"Is Jesus God?" rests on several other unanswered questions.

Don't assume that you understand what Jesus meant by anything he said. Most Christians do not. He was more enlightened than they, by far, and he often spoke in riddles, appended by "Whoever has an ear, let him hear." Few Christians have ears.

In particular, when a belief about the meaning of something Jesus said serves the selfish power-interests of the Church -- suspect and be skeptical. As in this case.






True, that verse alone may not be indicative of WHO Jesus IS....
But read John 14:1-15.

There are KEY words spoken by Jesus, to Timothy & Paul....

They asked to see "The Father".
You need to pay attention to what Jesus said to them. He makes it pretty darn clear as to the true nature of who he is.

THAT is where I get my basis for saying that Yes, Jesus is in fact God.
It's not from someone else sayiong they "have a hunch that he MIGHT be"..... But it's in fact JESUS' own words.

When you read that, you understand that he HAS TO BE GOD in order to say what he says. Otherwise it goes completely against the word of GOD HIMSELF.




posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by marko1970
True, that verse alone may not be indicative of WHO Jesus IS....
But read John 14:1-15.


All right, let's do that. I'm going to snip to show passages that you may be interpreting as saying Jesus is God. If you feel the entire chapter needs to be presented to give proper context, do so in your reply.



6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." . . .

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.


This is what you're talking about, right?

Now, please refer to my last post, in which I mentioned a sense in which Jesus most certainly WAS God -- the same sense in which we all are. God resides at the core of our being, and when we achieve stillness of mind and look within, there He/She/It is. I look at that passage, and I see nothing to distinguish what Jesus is saying here, from that sense in which we are all God.

Please note the words, "the Father, living in me," and "I am in the Father and the Father is in me." A weird way of expressing it if Jesus meant what you say he meant, but it makes perfect sense if he were claiming, not an identity between himself and God, but a unity. God living in me, I in God and God in me, God and I are One -- that is exactly what a person experiences in deep meditation, when the barriers are pierced and love fills the heart.

Unity and identity are not the same thing. Unity with God is the goal of all mystics. Identity with God is the delusion of many crazy people. I certainly believe Jesus was a great mystic, and I don't think he was a crazy person, so I'm quite confident he meant what he (is said to have) said as a mystic would mean it, not as a lunatic would. Especially since he (is said to have) worded it as a mystic would, and not as a lunatic would.



When you read that, you understand that he HAS TO BE GOD in order to say what he says. Otherwise it goes completely against the word of GOD HIMSELF.


As shown above, I do not reach the same conclusion from that passage at all. I believe you, and many other Christians, are misinterpreting it.

Of course, that's setting aside the question of the validity of the Bible to start with. But that's another topic for another discussion.

[edit on 4-8-2006 by Two Steps Forward]



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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I have to disagree with the assumption that we are ALL God as you may have suggested.


Now, please refer to my last post, in which I mentioned a sense in which Jesus most certainly WAS God -- the same sense in which we all are. God resides at the core of our being, and when we achieve stillness of mind and look within, there He/She/It is. I look at that passage, and I see nothing to distinguish what Jesus is saying here, from that sense in which we are all God.



It's clear within the Bible that there is ONE God. So we can't ALL be God.
If THAT were the case, people could fix their own miserable exsistences, & everything would be FABULOUS!

God IS the Father in Heaven, The Son-Jesus, AND the Holy Sprit. ALL ONE entity, but with 3 distinct, individual attributes.

AND YES, you have to have faith in the Bible as being the divine word of God.
If you don't believe that, then you can't be expected to understand, nor believe what is being said.



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 03:24 PM
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"God," defined as an interactive and intertwining observer field defining quantum states by collapsing a wave function and moving existence from virtuality to reality, is accomplished by all living things with a consciousness, from the tiniest bacterium, to the largest forest. We aren't convinced of the existence of ET life, but if there is any, they also contribute to creating and defining the universe.

If a Jesus as portrayed in the Bible actually existed (he might have been a fictional representation or conglomeration of several different people, as well as mythology), then when he was alive, he was contributing to the definition and creation of reality in the past, which has carried forward into our future. So he was part of "God," just like every other conscious thing.

As for him being the whole and entirety of God, I think if you'll read what he said more closely, he generally refers to himself as a conduit or "way" of understanding or experiencing the true nature of God, rather than God, or the consciousness - reality creating Web of God, itself.




posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Jhn 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.


WHY did Jesus tell Philip & Timothy to keep "HIS" commandments?
Did God give Moses the original commandments that were to be kept?

Jesus is claiming the commandments as being his own. Therefore...........



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 03:47 PM
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That we are all God is not an assumption, Marco. It's the fundamental fact experienced by all mystics. Or, well, what I have experienced is that I am God myself. And since I'm not a crazy person, I don't believe that this state of affairs is unique to myself.


Actually, again I must point out that unity and identity are not the same thing. So maybe "I am God" or "we are all God" isn't quite the best way to put it. Say rather, that God is at the core of who we are, that our individual identities are masks and illusions, and that we may experience unity with God (or with all-that-is).

This understanding is common to mystics of all religions: the monastic orders and the Gnostics within Christianity, the Sufis within Islam, the sadhus and seekers within Hinduism and Buddhism, the Kabbalists within Judaism. What Jesus said about his own relationship with God, and the unity between them, is very much like what many, many others have said, and I think it far more likely that he meant by it exactly what they meant, than that he meant to say he, and he alone, held an identity with God.

Which is another way of saying that I think Jesus was a mystic, not a crazy person.

As to the commandments business, did Jesus not give two commandments of his own, to love God with all one's heart, and to love one's neighbor as oneself? When he said to keep his commandments, don't you think he was talking about these, which he said encompassed all the Law and the Prophets, rather than the commandments given to Moses?



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