How can the moon do that?, page 1
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reply posted on 30-7-2006 @ 09:40 AM by masqua
Originally posted by tim_dorset_uk
What I find interesting is how nobody spotted the satellites of the other plantes until recently in our solar system. Yet ancient tribes in africa knew of them 1000's of years ago such as the dogma tribes.


I think you meant the Dogon tribes...


www.crystalinks.com...

Astronomy

The Dogon are famous for their astronomical knowledge taught through oral tradition, dating back thousands of years, referencing the star system, Sirius. Sirius is the dog star. It is linked with the Egyptian goddess Isis. The astronomical information known by the Dogon since that time, was not discovered and verified until the 19th and 20th centuries, making one wonder how the Dogon came by this knowledge. Their oral traditions say it was given to them by the Nommo. The source of their information may date back to the time of the ancient Egyptian priests.

The Dogon priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis.

Initially the anthropologists wrote it off publishing the information in an obscure anthropological journal, because they didn't appreciate the astronomical importance of the information.

What they didn't know was that since 1844, astronomers had suspected that Sirius A had a companion star. This was in part determined when it was observed that the path of the star wobbled. In 1862 Alvan Clark discovered the second star making Sirius a binary star system (two stars).

In the 1920's it was determined that Sirius B, the companion of Sirius, was a white dwarf star. White dwarfs are small, dense stars that burn dimly. The pull of its gravity causes Sirius' wavy movement. Sirius B is smaller than planet Earth.

The Dogon name for Sirius B is Po Tolo. It means star - tolo and smallest seed - po. Seed refers to creation. In this case, perhaps human creation.

By this name they describe the star's smallness. It is, they say, the smallest thing there is.

They also claim that it is 'the heaviest star' and is white in color.

The Dogon thus attribute to Sirius B its three principal properties as a white dwarf: small, heavy, white.


There's lots been written about this tribe since I remember reading about them decades ago. I'm not sure how much was truth and what was conjecture, but they did have a knack for Sirius astrology.


reply posted on 30-7-2006 @ 02:36 PM by cdrn
For a thorough and fascinating explanation on how orbits work, you can always read wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org...

So to answer your question, no, the velocity and position of the moon don't have to be exactly as they are to fall into orbit around the Earth. Something with a different velocity/position would be in a different orbit, but it could still be in a stable elliptical one as it is now.

The reason why the moon only faces one of its sides to the Earth is because of tidal locking, a phenomenon in which the Earth's gravity pulls stronger on the moon's closer side (since it's less distant from the Earth) than on the farther side, eventually stopping the moon's rotation in relationship to the earth. Thus, the moon takes the same time to rotate about its axis as it does to orbit around the Earth. Tidal locking is demonstrated in many other moons in the solar system, especially ones that are close to the planets they orbit.


reply posted on 30-7-2006 @ 04:52 PM by Nygdan
watch the rocks
The chances of this happening perfectly - or at least to within 3 cm a year as far as I can remember - must be astronomical.

Why?
The planets form as dust rotating about the sun. All the material that didn't "perfectly" get captured around a 'permanent' moon like orbit will just accrete onto the planet. Where the laws of gravity allow something like a moon to accrete along with the planet, you will then have a moon.

However, earth's moon is slightly different, because the its moon formed after earth itself was impacted, material was ejected into space. Some undoubtedly returned to earth, and the parts that happened to be in a stable place, remained such.


Originally posted by masqua
What blows my mind is how the moon seems exactly the size of the solar disc during an eclipse.

Its not. It only appears that way. The only part of the eclipsing moon that you would see is the part eclipsing the sun, not the rest of it. Because the moon appears as a circle, the part that you see is also a curve.

xeros
Also why does the moon not spin?

It rotates, but its rotation about its own axis, I think, is canceled out by its revolution about the earth, thus only one side is apparent from earth.

and what are the chances of that?

Why do you think it has anything to do with chance. If you think its immpossible, look at the equations for the graviational relationships between them and please show us why it shouldn't be happening.

tim dorset uk
Yet ancient tribes in africa knew of them 1000's of years ago such as the dogma tribes.

I beleive you are thinking of the Dogon tribe in Africa. They had no knowledge of other moons on planets within this solar system. What they are famous for is the claim that they knew about Sirius, which is a trinary star system, but appears as a single point of light to the naked eye. They, infact, have no knowledge of it as any sort of system. People studying the Dogon saw some of their rock drawings, and decided that that was what they represented. IOW, it was the interpretation of the explorers, not the Dogon.



reply posted on 30-7-2006 @ 05:30 PM by masqua
regarding the size of the moon to the size of the sun

Originally posted by Nygdan
Its not. It only appears that way. The only part of the eclipsing moon that you would see is the part eclipsing the sun, not the rest of it. Because the moon appears as a circle, the part that you see is also a curve.




www.space.com...

"The Sun is far larger than the Moon -- about 400 times larger in diameter," explains James C. White II, executive director of the Astronomical Society of the Pacific. "Yet a happy circumstance is that the Sun is also about 400 times farther from the Earth than the Moon."

This makes the Moon and Sun appear roughly the same size in the sky. When the Moon's orbit about the Earth takes it directly between the Sun and us, the Moon can obscure all or part of the Sun. Exactly what happens depends on minor changes in distance and position.

*bolding mine


It's the bolded "happy circumstance" I'm referring to. It's almost too pat, as if the moon was 'placed'.
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