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Imagine a world without Israel!

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posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
We're certainly not going to close a threat because it is unpopular, or because unpopular sentiments have been expressed, or because people have, probably unintentionally, used hate monger sites in the course of the discussion.

And certainly, its not, in and of itself, anti-semitic to wonder if Israel should even exist in the first place, or what the repurcussions of its existence are.

Indeed, the discussion has shown that, despite the original claims to the contrary, eliminating Israel will not solve the world's problems.


The feelings I get from this thread is that he is calling for the destruction of Israel in a non irect way, going against what MM said earlier today, Middle East Conflict Forum how is this not anti-semetic and calling for the destruction of Israel or how much "better it would be" if Israel did not exist? Hate filled posting is what spawned this thread and is a disgrace, threads like this do not inspire civil conversations.




posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Has anyone here read the warnings of Benjamin Freedman? I read it a few years back. It's very exposing of the Zionist. Now Benjamin F. is a 'zionist turn-coat' you can say. He was involved, in some of the highest levels, and I don't klnow what happenend...maybe he had a change in heart, or maybe his conscience started to bother him... whatever the case, he took what he knew, and warned America.

His speech was given in 1961 at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C., It is dated, but please read it.... I know it's long, but it gives details on the wars, why they were started, how the jewish claiming {zionist}, got the British to promise the state of Israel to them if they got America into WWI. So much info here.....


Now those same Jews, when they saw the possibility of getting Palestine, went to England and they made this deal. At that time, everything changed, like a traffic light that changes from red to green. Where the newspapers had been all pro-German, where they'd been telling the people of the difficulties that Germany was having fighting Great Britain commercially and in other respects, all of a sudden the Germans were no good. They were villains. They were Huns. They were shooting Red Cross nurses. They were cutting off babies' hands. They were no good. Shortly after that, Mr. Wilson declared war on Germany.

The Zionists in London had sent cables to the United States, to Justice Brandeis, saying "Go to work on President Wilson. We're getting from England what we want. Now you go to work on President Wilson and get the United States into the war." That's how the United States got into the war. We had no more interest in it; we had no more right to be in it than we have to be on the moon tonight instead of in this room. There was absolutely no reason for World War I to be our war. We were railroaded into -- if I can be vulgar, we were suckered into -- that war merely so that the Zionists of the world could obtain Palestine. That is something that the people of the United States have never been told. They never knew why we went into World War I.

After we got into the war, the Zionists went to Great Britain and they said: "Well, we performed our part of the agreement. Let's have something in writing that shows that you are going to keep your bargain and give us Palestine after you win the war." They didn't know whether the war would last another year or another ten years. So they started to work out a receipt. The receipt took the form of a letter, which was worded in very cryptic language so that the world at large wouldn't know what it was all about. And that was called the Balfour Declaration.

The Balfour Declaration was merely Great Britain's promise to pay the Zionists what they had agreed upon as a consideration for getting the United States into the war. So this great Balfour Declaration, that you hear so much about, is just as phony as a three dollar bill. I don't think I could make it more emphatic than that.

That is where all the trouble started. The United States got in the war. The United States crushed Germany. You know what happened. When the war ended, and the Germans went to Paris for the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 there were 117 Jews there, as a delegation representing the Jews, headed by Bernard Baruch. I was there: I ought to know. Now what happened? The Jews at that peace conference, when they were cutting up Germany and parceling out Europe to all these nations who claimed a right to a certain part of European territory, said, "How about Palestine for us?" And they produced, for the first time to the knowledge of the Germans, this Balfour Declaration. So the Germans, for the first time realized, "Oh, so that was the game! That's why the United States came into the war." The Germans for the first time realized that they were defeated, they suffered the terrific reparations that were slapped onto them, because the Zionists wanted Palestine and were determined to get it at any cost.


Read the whole thing here:
www.jewwatch.com...

Don't accuse me of being anti semetic either, Real Jews, and fake Jews are not the same, and those claiming jewish heritage today are not blood... they are really Kazars....who were forced to follow some religion under a king.... way, way back.... and that king chose Judaism.... and so now they are the Zionist Jews of today.

*****Edit**** This site has an MP3 audio of the speach if you'd rather listen than read.
777001.com.../1485

[edit on 7/21/2006 by jensouth31]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 04:04 PM
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BaastetNoir...


Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Originally posted by Beachcoma
[...]You think Muslims from, I dunno, say Funan in China went all the way to the mid-east thousands of years ago to fight Israel (which mind you didn't exist for thousands of years)?


Muslims in China Thousands of years ago ????? ROFL !!!

China has existed for 4 thousands years ... at least, the Islamic religion only showed up a "couple" of thousands of years later... Study some History and stop making a fool of yourself. Wanna have your brainwashed, choose a better subject.

You know NOTHING about Islamic History, so Study it, before you walk around spreading nonsense and anti-semitic hate.


Oops, my bad. You're right. Islam has existed for about 1400 plus years. It's 4 am, I'm tired from work. Log on and read all these rubbish being posted here and it's frustrating. I was responding to this part of your statement:


Originally posted by BaastetNoir
Israel has been under Islamic attack for thousands of years..[...]


But what I was trying to draw attention to the fact that if you're talking about thousands of years ago, that would be the Arabs, not muslims. Plus there was no state of Israel then. Just a piece of land as it is now that keeps shifting hands.

You could argue Arab Muslims though, during the conquest period. Was there Israel then, or was it a piece of territory or province owned by this or that state/kingdom? And after that things were fine with muslims and Jews until the next round of Mid-East--West hostilities.

Yes. Thousands of years.. How quickly you insult. Seems like you made a mistake too.

Plus I resent this:

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
[You know NOTHING about Islamic History, so Study it, before you walk around spreading nonsense and anti-semitic hate.[...]


I challenge you to find the instance where I spread anti-semitic hate. Shall I show(PM) you where YOU spout bigoted and possibly racist remarks about muslims?

You owe me an apology.


*To mods, sorry about this, he/she's asking for it.

Back on topic

If there was no Israel, I think there'd still be problems. Its the oil. Even if it was another state or part of an existing one, there'd still be problems. Everyone wants a piece of the pie and the way the oil market is designed, the more unstable the region, the bigger the profits.

Talk about "muslim" terrorists is moot. The only "muslim" terrorists giving you westerners problems on your soil are of Arab or, get this -- Semitic ancestry. In my neck of the woods they are the same ethnic group as my own region (Malayo-Polynesian) where there are plenty of muslims, so I'd call them terrorists, not "muslim" terrorists. (why must that be added?)

If you want to discuss "muslim" terrorists in the Philippines or Indonesia, we can start a new thread on that.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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allright.....i guess i was out of line with the nuke thing and it was wrong for me to have said that..some things i should keep to myselff no matterhow strong i feel about them..

Dude... i am sorry if i offended you i dident mean to..was onley my opinion! buy was out of line....im sorry.....but seeing that i get in truble for speaking my opinion about "removeing" people/place why dont you read a few posts down from wut i said and get mad at the guy talking about "removeing" all the zionists....i mean wut if i was one of them? maybe that wood offend me maybe it dose.....and yet still i get in truble for my opinion even tho it was little out of line.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 04:44 AM
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On the off chance that someone out there is still interested in discussing what the world would be like ghad the modern state of Israel never been created ......

I would guess - given our modern love affair with blowing each other up - that had Israel not be created then today we'd just have various christian, muslim and jewish terrorist groups all fighting one another in whatever country Jerusalem ended up being a part of (Jordan?).

Instead of supporting a sovereign state, it's not inconcievable that - as has happened elsewhere in the world - the US (and maybe other countries) would unofficially provide support for one or other of these terrorists group.

In fact, thinking about it, had Israel not been created I think it's quite possible that the situation in the middle east could actually be even worse today with a much higher risk of WWIII breaking out - if indeed it hadn't already done so back in the 70s ...

Hmmmm, whilst I personally disprove of Israeli policies and human rights abuse, the creation of the state may actually have been the best solution for a near impossible situation.

Of course, the best solution all round though would be for the Christians, Jews and Muslims to grow up and stop squabbling like spoilt brats. If God does exist he's probably sat in Hell laughing with glee at the hideous mess he created .....



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 06:44 AM
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completely off topic but needed to be asked as the previous poster opened the door to it

Far as WWIII goes i still believe we are in it
think about it, how many countries are involved in this war in iraq?
pretty much all the ones that were involved in WWI and WWII
why has this not yet been labeled WWIII is my question?



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Communication_Burger



I was just wondering if anyone could clarify something for me; Does the Israeli Parliament building, called 'The Knesset" have these words over the entrance?


'Compassion towards a non-Jew is forbidden, if you see him fall into a river or face danger, you are prohibited from saving him because all the nations are enemies of the Jews and when a non-Jew falls into a ditch, the Jew should close the ditch on him with a big boulder, until he dies, so that the enemies will lose one person and the Jews will be able to preserve their dream of the Promised Land, the Greater Israel!'


A world without Israel? Damn fine with me.


Well this is just not true. I cant even believe someone would believe the outrageous lies that are on this page.
Burger, this is just a continuation of slanderous things that have been said about Jews for centries. Jews do not hate non-Jews, they do not sacrifice your children, they do not drink blood, they do not want to kill all non-Jews and take over the world. The above quote is against everything that Jews stand for.


As for the rest of the thread, I think anyone who says we would be better off without this or that country is not getting the big picture. Its just typical that Israel would get blamed for all the terrorism and problems of the world. Puulease, you really think destroying Israel will solve anything, humans are warmongers, it will never stop.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by tom goose

More blood has been spilled in the name of god than all other conflicts put together.


no, false representatives of religion have simply used it to further:

1. Jealousy
2. Land grab as a means of survival (Finite supply of resources)
3. Greed
4. Insecurity
5. Paranoia

all basic human behaviour, evident of a school playground, or in the workplace, yet simply elevated to the world stage.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 09:54 AM
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it really is all about jerusalem is it not, where 3 religions all come to a head. what ever happens, jerusalem will be the cause of what happens in the future.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
This thread is just the 'new bar in town' for all the anti-Israel and (closet?) anti-semites to hang out at.

"Wouldn't the world be better without Israel or the Jews?" has been asked for centuries, as if that alone would make all the world's problems go away.

No, the solution to the world's problems would be to make the people that hate go away - including the ones hiding out in this thread.


lol.....welcome back from fantasyland
Maybe we could all hold a bottle of coke, join hands & sing joy to the world. It is what it is and NOTHING is EVER going to remove all hate, but it's a nice gesture.

I find this thread interesting personally because it's amusing to see how jewish supporters get their panties in a knot when there's any type of mention of the jewish state in a negative sense, even hypothetically. To think that anyone here is actually advocating the removal of jews (ie. genocide) is laughable at best and a clear display of ignorance.

brill

[edit on 22-7-2006 by brill]



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 11:12 AM
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I am going agaisnt my better judgement to post on this thread, (to me the amount of racisim that has been shown on this thread is absolutely disgusting.

It would just as saying what would the world be like without say Russia, UK, Or the USA....

If there was or if there was no Israel in this world today, There would still be conflict in some part of the world. Israel is not the The main problem of the conflicts of the world. Religion is, until everyone can get over the hate towards each others religion, there will always be conflict, while the middle east is part of the problem, it is not the whole problem of causing the major conflicts in this world.

And using the word J** instead of Jewish, just shows the amount of racism some of the posted on this thread have shown. Nothing like adding fuel to fire on this forum.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka

Can you believe this guy/girl?

Wow. Ha ha ha, this was really funny. I LOVE how you ignored the Christian persecution of Jews, including the Christian slaughter of Jews during the Crusade. You would have us all believe that them A-rabs are the only ones who have killed Jews.



I don't remember ever having said that ... but thast ok... knee jerk reactions are natural to the human beeing. I am not a Christian, and even If i was i have no idea what that has to do with the conflict of these days.

The Crusades where started by the Catholci Church, and I do nto consider the RCC to be a Christian organization, in fact they are pretty anti-semetic themselves, otherwise they would not have elected a previously Nazi Soldier as the Holly Representative of God on Earth. Yes, yes... past sins can be forgiven, but i don't know if he asked for fogrgiveness or not, what I do know is that Mr. Ratzinger grabs every opoetunity to insult and condemn Israel... so ...i guess once a Nazi always a Nazi ???


I guess you've never heard of encyclopedias, huh? Or you missed it where the Zionists THEMSELVES mention Zionism. Get real.


And how do you know if those ppl are really Zionist or just members of Neo-Nazi groups working to spread their Propaganda ?


I'm DEFINITELY sure you're unaware that very rich Jews helped fund the evil Nazis you railed agaisnt in that tirade (not to mention that the group who was supposed to rescue the Jews dying in Europe wouldn't do it with their own cake...)


There have always been traitors. There were African tribes who sold other Africasn tribes to the Slave traders. Does that mean that Black ppl nowadays are members of an "evil organization" to control the world ?

My last question is... have you ever met any Zionist is person ? Or know anyone who has ? Nope ?? yeah .. me neitehr ... and lot of ppl haven't eitehr.. so thast just makes me wonder, if they are so powerfull and amazing, where are they ? ... Oh .. thats right .. they have to hide to control the world... because they are so filled with power they can not show themselves .. and have to stay in their litle darkness covens ...



Originally posted by Beachcoma
You know NOTHING about Islamic History, so Study it, before you walk around spreading nonsense and anti-semitic hate.[...]


You are actually right... I was thinking about the genious who started this thread when i wrote that. I'm sorry for this one ... and just this one



Originally posted by BeachcomaIf you want to discuss "muslim" terrorists in the Philippines or Indonesia, we can start a new thread on that.


Exactly my point... there are just too many sentences with "muslim" and "terrorist" in it ... too many countries falling victims to it... too many ppl dying because of it...so how is that beeing a biggot ? I'm just stating facts .. sorry but it's not my fault, these ppl give a bad name to themselves, and use their own ppl as shields.
The expression "muslim terrorists" comes because of the REligion theybased themselves on... maybe they should be called "Islamic Terrorists" ... you can change the name all you want, but the ....


Originally posted by Beachcoma Shall I show(PM) you where YOU spout bigoted and possibly racist remarks about muslims?


Oh no hun.. you don't have to PM me, you can post it right here ... in fact i think you have asked me that before, and i'm still waiting. I stand by any word i type, no problem there



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by warthog911
this is not an anti sematic but anti zionist.I am not blaming jews but zionist.The jews have been taken over by zionists.The entire israeli[jews] pulblic has been held ransom by thier govt(zionists,rotchchilds)


There is no such thing as Israel...British and yes Rothschilds created it. Now there is a Shalem. Whats that saying in the Bible,,,those who curse Israel will be cursed. I see alot of folks not cursed and doggin Israel daily many rabbis and true followers of the Torah in the mix.

Imagine a world without : My God is bigger and better than your God or Im smarter than you, better looking,,,on and on.
Perhaps a world without critizism and nothing but praise, we are probably too far gone for that I guess.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by brill

I find this thread interesting personally because it's amusing to see how jewish supporters get their panties in a knot when there's any type of mention of the jewish state in a negative sense, even hypothetically. To think that anyone here is actually advocating the removal of jews (ie. genocide) is laughable at best and a clear display of ignorance.

brill

[edit on 22-7-2006 by brill]


My panties are pretty well thannk you for caring.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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Jensouth, that is some amazing info.

Every time I dig into the world wars, the hole gets deeper and deeper. Wow. And BaasteNoir, I got nothing else to say to you, since you ridiculously deny that Zionists exist.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Originally posted by BeachcomaIf you want to discuss "muslim" terrorists in the Philippines or Indonesia, we can start a new thread on that.


Exactly my point... there are just too many sentences with "muslim" and "terrorist" in it ... too many countries falling victims to it... too many ppl dying because of it...so how is that beeing a biggot ? I'm just stating facts .. sorry but it's not my fault, these ppl give a bad name to themselves, and use their own ppl as shields.
The expression "muslim terrorists" comes because of the REligion theybased themselves on... maybe they should be called "Islamic Terrorists" ... you can change the name all you want, but the ....


Responding to the underlined part: the expression "muslim terrorists" comes because it is the mainstream (western) media's way of making people have that association in their minds. Just like how after 9/11 all the clips on the subject ALWAYS show muslims praying, then muslims prostrating, next they'll show violence in the Middle East and then they'll show the clip of the plane slamming into WTC.

Keep playing that montage over and over again and you have people making the association

muslims = terrorists

Same thing with the sentence or term "Muslim terrorist". You don't hear them calling the IRA "Christian terrorists" nor do you hear them calling the Tamil Tigers "Hindu terrorists". It's all done so that it would be ingrained in the minds of people that

muslims = terrorists

THAT is why the expression exists. Classical conditioning. Pavlov's dog. Ring the bell, give him food. It works. Proven. Now all muslims are suspect. Have a 'Bin' or 'Ben' or 'Binti' in your name and expect to get hassled at the airports.

I shall give my children non-Arabic sounding names.


Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Originally posted by Beachcoma Shall I show(PM) you where YOU spout bigoted and possibly racist remarks about muslims?


Oh no hun.. you don't have to PM me, you can post it right here ... in fact i think you have asked me that before, and i'm still waiting. I stand by any word i type, no problem there


NVM, forget it. I'm not as annoyed anymore, besides I think I've done it before. Anyway the PM suggestion was because I figured it to be more polite. I don't like to put down people, least not in public.

You're off the hook... for now



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 09:45 PM
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This thread is goin wy off topic.Now its jews vs muslims.We are here to discuss the effects of zionism and non existence of the ROtchchild's play toy=Israel..Mods plz feel free to LOCK this topic as it ias going downhill.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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Yeah, sorry about that. I fed the troll


And for the record nobody mentioned jews vs muslims. I was just trying to illustrate how the muslims = terrorists conditioning works. Initially it was to relate it to how some people think being against Zionism is the same as being against Jews is the same as being anti-semite. Same process IMHO, classical conditioning by the information gatekeepers.

Then I got side-tracked. My bad.



posted on Jul, 22 2006 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
Jensouth, that is some amazing info.



It really is...isn't it!! I felt like I really had my eyes openened about the goings on of the zionist when I read that speech
It's very long, but it's a real page turner... I couldn't stop reading it once I started.





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