Why do people keep calling Israel's attack "disproportional"?

Let's remember...

This whole mess would not be happening if the British hadn't made a backdoor deal with the Rothschilds and the Zionists. You know, where they went into Palestinian towns and told the Arabs to get out...

wtf are you talking about??
The Red Cross trucks (or whatever they're using) have not been bombed...

I know what I'm saing, even if they were sending suplies they could not get thru, all the briges and all the roads have been pounded very heavy.
You must provide pictures because this is coverd by the media in all aspects with video footage ,I have been waching CNN in a intense way, and I can tell you there is no suplies present and there is no shelter present at the curent time.
The only suplies came from siria.
So can you pelase show to me some pictures since this conflict is coverd by the media every day with live footage there must be pictures to cover your claim?

As are as the throwing rocks, and IRA comparisons.....LOL!!

I think some one above my post explained it already regarding IRA

This is starting to be hillarious!
They're not throwing rocks, just to throw rocks. They're throwing rocks to wipe you off the planet. If someone was throwing rocks at you desperately trying to kill you, what would you do? Just stand there??

Some throw rocks because their homes and teritory have been invaded and it's curently ocupied, I guess you dont have much simpaty for history, because you have no clue of it.

*sigh*

Originally posted by neformore
Yes. As the Provisional IRA tried to wipe out the entire British Government in an unprecedented attack on the Conservative Party conference in Brighton, I'd say they were trying to destroy the British way of life. Therefore - using your logic - the UK should have bombed Dublin, surely?

If the PIRA had headquarters in Dublin, and structures in Dublin that were essential in carrying out attacks against Britain, then the British would have every right to do what is necessary in stopping the attacks. Whether they bomb those structures or not is their choice.

Thats because your question is a stupid one and proves absolutely nothing. Of course people would react to a deadly force with its equivalent. However, as I've stated previously, wiping out an entire countries infrastructure to prevent a handful of people from doing something is crassly disproportionate.

Who's wiping out an entire country's infastructure!?
lol

I'll wait for the link to this one.

If you think Hezbollah can wipe out Israel then you are sadly deluded.

If you think Israel is wiping out an entire country's infastructure you're sadly deluded.
(after decades of dealing with them, do you think Israel doesn't know how Hez gets it's weapons and what needs to be done to isolate them?)

Anyway, I didn't say whether or not they can or not. I said that's their goal. That's their only purpose.
Why give them the any chance to try?

The comparison between Hezbollahs actions and those of the IRA is hugely valid, and if you don't believe me, read about what they did here

Yes terrorist attacks are terrorist attacks, but the two situations are nothing alike. The parties involved are nothing alike.

Why are you just spouting the continual rhetoric thats spoonfed as propaganda and not looking at the real picture?

What are you talking about???
Saying Hezbollah is a terrorist group that needs to be taken care of is propaganda?
lmao! Even Lebanon is saying that.
What has Hezbollah done for you that you're defending them so much?



pepsi....*yawn*
www.cnn.com...

Some throw rocks because their homes and teritory have been invaded and it's curently ocupied, I guess you dont have much simpaty for history, because you have no clue of it.

Seems you have no clue as to what's going on in the present. Perhaps these english language links are too difficult for you to understand?

[edit on 22-7-2006 by ThatsJustWeird]

Seems you have no clue as to what's going on in the present. Perhaps these english language links are too difficult for you to understand?

Your link does not describe anything
it states

The following are links to aid group Web sites who are assisting civilians in the Mideast crisis (some sites may respond slowly due to increased traffic):

But where are the storys ?, I'm not denying that they want to help, but nothing is present at curent time in lebanon , I guess you just dont get it, I am not sustaining that there arent organisations that may want to help, What I'm saying is that at the curent time there is no one present there to feed the starving, and to shelter the wonded.

I'll prove it with your own link

www.cnn.com...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- If there is no cessation of violence in the Israel-Hezbollah conflict and innocent Lebanese people continue to be killed or displaced, "I'm afraid of a major humanitarian disaster," U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said.

With the destruction of the bridges and the infrastructure, it is extremely difficult to even get to the ground to assess how many people need help and how we are going to get it to them," he said.

So there is no one there realy, I guess you havent been waching tv
There is no one there!!!!!!!!
Further more the us goverment and israel does not want a stop to the conflict, so it is imposible to get aid there, so it's imposible to help the civilans there, so tehre for they dont give a damn about them.
But of course propagandists like you know that already, it's just hard for you to admit it.

I guess you dont have cable, you can catch CNN with it you know

[edit on 22-7-2006 by pepsi78]

I dont find Israels attacks to be 'disproportional' because at the moment it is 'war'. Not a rescue operation, and it has been like that since the start. If they were truely trying to rescue their soldiers then yes it is 'disproportional', but i think it is clear to most people that, Israel's goal in this is not to rescue its soldiers but to crush its neighbours.
My problem with this is simply that Israel is lying. If it was truthful in its reasons with this conflict it would not be 'disproportional' but then again it would be viewed around the world that Israel was simply wrong if they told us their true intent.
All in all war can not be disproportional, but war is simply wrong.

Originally posted by pepsi78
So there is no one there realy, I guess you havent been waching tv

There is no one there!!!!!!!!
Further more the us goverment and israel does not want a stop to the conflict, so it is imposible to get aid there, so it's imposible to help the civilans there, so tehre for they dont give a damn about them.

Do you honestly think that all those aid groups are just sitting around doing nothing?
Koffi said he's afraid of the situation becoming a crisis, not that there's one now.

'nother link. (you know if you bothered actually researching on this instead of just going by what you think you know, you would find these links yourself.)

www.washingtonpost.com...

More:

www.wavy.com...

Israel to let humanitarian relief into Lebanon; aid arrives in stricken city

TYRE, Lebanon The first International Red Cross relief convoy has made it to a besieged southern Lebanon city.

And at the same time, Israel's U-N ambassador says his country will allow humanitarian supplies into Lebanon.

euronews.net...

Lebanon
French aid flight lands in Cyprus

The international community has begun mobilising humanitarian aid for the people of Lebanon, aid that the Israeli government says it will allow to enter the country. At least half a million people are thought to have fled their homes and are either staying with relatives or being sheltered in schools and other community buildings.

The European Union has pledged 10 million euros and expressed grave concern over the situation. The first plane load of French aid left Paris this morning for Cyprus. From there, the generators, medicines and food will be shipped to Beirut.

But of course propagandists like you know that already, it's just hard for you to admit it.

Your problem is that you don't read or research. So anything you see, despite it being the truth, you call propaganda.

I guess you dont have cable, you can catch CNN with it you know

Wait, I thought mainstream media was bad?
lol
Anyway, I do have cable and can watch CNN anytime I want. My computer is set up so that I can even watch CNN (as well as other news stations) on my computer. Not sure what you're trying to point out?


[edit on 22-7-2006 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by wang
I dont find Israels attacks to be 'disproportional' because at the moment it is 'war'. Not a rescue operation, and it has been like that since the start. If they were truely trying to rescue their soldiers then yes it is 'disproportional', but i think it is clear to most people that, Israel's goal in this is not to rescue its soldiers but to crush its neighbours.
My problem with this is simply that Israel is lying. If it was truthful in its reasons with this conflict it would not be 'disproportional' but then again it would be viewed around the world that Israel was simply wrong if they told us their true intent.
All in all war can not be disproportional, but war is simply wrong.

??
Perhaps you're talking about the kidnapping done by Hamas?

Hezbollah's attack was immediately labled as an act of war by Israel and they have responded accordingly. I can't recall them ever stating that this was just a rescue mission.

You are right on that, it is not plainly a rescue misson in Lebanon. The hezbollah attack on the IDF and capturing of the 2 soldiers was considerd a 'act of war'. THe rescue mission is just apart of the war.
Although if it was a act of war, why wasnt it a act of war 2 years ago when the IDF traded pirsoners?

Hezbollah abducted three Israel Defense Forces soldiers during an October 2000 attack in Shebaa Farms, and sought to obtain the release of 14 Lebanese prisoners, some of whom had been held since 1978. On January 25, 2004, Hezbollah successfully negotiated an exchange of prisoners with Israel, through German mediators. The prisoner swap was carried out on January 29: 30 Lebanese and Arab prisoners, the remains of 60 Lebanese militants and civilians, 420 Palestinian prisoners, and maps showing Israeli mines in South Lebanon were exchanged for an Israeli businessman and army reserve colonel Elchanan Tenenbaum kidnapped in 2001 and the remains of the three Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers mentioned above, who were killed either during the Hezbollah operation, or in its immediate aftermath.

Then again who did throw the first punch in this latest crisis?

On July 19, 2004, a senior Hezbollah official, Ghaleb Awwali, was assassinated in a car bombing in Beirut. Hezbollah blamed Israel; credit was claimed, and then retracted, by a previously unheard of Sunni group called Jund Ash Sham, while Israel denied involvement

and..

In June 2006, the Lebanese military arrested an alleged assassination squad led by former South Lebanese Army corporal Mahmoud Abu Rafeh. According to army statements, the cell was trained and supported by the Israeli Mossad and "used ... to carry out assigned assassinations in Lebanon." Among the killings attributed to the squad are those of Hezbollah officials Ali Saleh (2003) and Ali Hassan Dib (1999).[38]

Now if it was truely a reaction to Hezbollah's actions, then why this? Gool's Thread

I cant find it but there is another thread around i cant find at the moment (im sure you have read) that claims the the Israeli soldeirs were caught in southern lebanon, and not in Israeli territory. For the IDF to be in lebanon in the first place shows a act of war.

ThatsJustWeird you know you may be right, at least when I see something that missed I will admit unlike you, but I still sustain that this atack is over reacting the way it was caryed out.
Why bomb the whole city, why bomb military baraks if the lebanon army is not involved?
That city looks like a city from WWII, and even if medical suplys get thru I dont think it would be enough.
If atacks continue there will be a humanitarian crisis.
only 12 days I think and there are already 300 people killed alot more injured and alot of them just running around having no place to go, the city looks like a gost town, if this keeps up at the end of this conflict we may have over 1000 killed
lots more wonded maybe up to 5000, and probally and I'm not exagerating a
number with six zeros representing the homless people, if this keeps up there will be no city at all, an interview given by the hezbolah paramilitary representative to CNN indicates that they want a stop to the present conflict, the problem is that the UN cant put an end to the killing because israel and the US will vote the other way, because they dont want this to stop.
I agree israel has the right to defend it's self, but not in this maner, not by blowing up civilian buildings and hoping they killed some hesbolah, this has been proved to be a failed tactic because rockets are still impacting israel in large numbers, the people that payed the price were the civilians.




[edit on 22-7-2006 by pepsi78]

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said the number of Lebanese killed in the 10 days of violence is now more than 330.

Thirty-four Israelis have been killed in the fighting, including 15 civilians killed by rockets fired by Hezbollah into Israel.

REPLY: Rather odd how the number of civilians killed in Isreal is noted, but not how many in Lebanon.

Loss of civilian lives in Lebanon are the result of Hezbubble placing their infrastructure amongst the civilians, and in populated areas (cowards that they are), when there is vacant land outside of the city they could use for military ops.

To try and compare the IRA to Hezbubble is pretty weak; no similarity at all.

A rock VS: a bomb? Depends on how big the rock was, I suppose. I'd take a gun or a small bomb to a knife fight, if the fight was against my enemy. The current events isn't days old, it's about 46 years old, and the Isrealis have had enough.
The whole idea of a "disproportionate response" is hogwash.

From the pictures shown, and others, hardly the "whole city" was bombed.



[edit on 22-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
What has Hezbollah done for you that you're defending them so much?

You have just nailed your colours to the mast with this. Bascially, because some of the points I've raised are valid and you have agreed with some of them, you've felt the need to go on the offensive and restort to accusing me of sympathising with terrorists.

I happen to live in the part of England where this
en.wikipedia.org...
and this
en.wikipedia.org...
happened.

On both occasions I had passed through the areas that were hit prior to the explosions. In the case of Manchester I was evacuated by the police. If you think for one minute I would stand up and defend any person who carries out such attacks, be they catholic, muslim or jew then you are a complete moron.

The comparisons I have been making were intended to draw a parallel between what is "proportionate" and what is "disproportionate". It didn't defend anyone.

Show me - in fact quote me - from anything I have written in this thread, where I have defended the actions of any party in the current conflict.

I'll tell you now that you can't, so I suggest you withdraw the comment.

There are real people dying in the Middle East. Be they Jew or Muslim their existence is as valid as yours and mine. You can immerse yourself in territorial pissing all you want, and play whatever blame game you want but at the end of the day real people on both sides are having their lives ruined and destroyed

The cause of it all - when it boils down to it - are those people who think their actions are "justified", or that their response is "proportionate" or that they have a "right" to do something, or that they fight for "holy" ground. While they spout their non-stop cycle of rhetoric people die.