Police State: Bringing Back the Draft

13 months of civil service would be great, feel as though I was doing something to help people. That would be enjoyable.

Originally posted by kaoszero
13 months of civil service would be great, feel as though I was doing something to help people. That would be enjoyable.

It's not for everyone. Nor should it be.

Originally posted by kaoszero
13 months of civil service would be great, feel as though I was doing something to help people. That would be enjoyable.

My friend finished the intial one month "training" period a couple of weeks a go. He's now in the process of finding a workplace where he can serve for the remaining 12 months.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by kaoszero
13 months of civil service would be great, feel as though I was doing something to help people. That would be enjoyable.

It's not for everyone. Nor should it be.

I'm not saying it would be great for everyone, nor should it be forced onto anyone. Things like that should be voluntary, and it's something I would volunteer for. I'm not for anyone enforcing rules, restrictions, or beliefs on anyone else. Sorry if my previous post was misleading.

Originally posted by kaoszero

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by kaoszero
13 months of civil service would be great, feel as though I was doing something to help people. That would be enjoyable.

It's not for everyone. Nor should it be.

I'm not saying it would be great for everyone, nor should it be forced onto anyone. Things like that should be voluntary, and it's something I would volunteer for. I'm not for anyone enforcing rules, restrictions, or beliefs on anyone else. Sorry if my previous post was misleading.

I understand, kaoszero. People who are incapable of independent thought and refuse to see the truth - like Cearbhall - become nothing more than dupes, pawns and murderers. Cearbhall - this is who you serve: Halliburton and Bechtel et al.

Bush Orders Oil Companies
Protected From Investigation!
A Licence To Loot
By Richard Calland
Contretemps
10-29-3

Tom Devine is a decent American. A fighter for what he calls "free speech dissent" -- whistle-blowing to you and me -- he conceals the steel of a lifelong professional commitment to whistle-blowers beneath a gentle, soft-spoken exterior. It seems like he could not hurt a fly. But when he talks about Executive Order 13303 a quiet rage gathers about him.

Signed by United States President George W Bush in May, the order attracted only scant media attention when it was finally reported in August. Given that the order is a blank cheque for corporate anarchy in Iraq this is very curious indeed.

A Web search reveals that apart from alternative media such as the Los Angeles Independent Media Centre, by and large the mainstream US media chose not to take the issue on, and with rare exceptions, the international media likewise.

Either the executive order is unworthy of attention and comment or it offers the most abundant proof of what Bush is up to in Iraq. I will let you decide.

The order prohibits the operation of the judicial process in respect of both the Development Fund for Iraq and "all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests". Section 1(b) shields these interests "of any nature whatsoever" if it "arises from" or is "related to" the "sale or marketing of all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons".

Section 3 confirms that "persons" includes entities such as corporations. In other words, it takes the opera- tion of all US corporations involved in the Iraqi oil business, however indirectly, outside of the law.

That means all corporate activities with roots or any connection to Iraqi oil. It includes commerce such as plastics in the petrochemical industry or anything else for which Iraqi oil becomes relevant, thus blending Iraqi oil with domestic supplies or industry.
www.rense.com...

Ah yes, EO 13303, another atrocity served up by the Bush oil cartel.

MD,

since you have no understanding of democracy then I will teach you.

obviously the school system is terrible or you were a terrible student.

democracy is a participatory system.

you follow what is going on and you participate in various ways.

the reason you have democracy is because people in the past faught against those that would deny basic rights to all people. Those fighters died for your freedom. You and I and everyone technically is obligated to keep the 'system going' unless we are willing to leave it of our own freewill. In other words you may be called upon in future to fight those that would take freedom away from you and future generations. Do your duty. Be a man.

Originally posted by THENEO
MD,

since you have no understanding of democracy then I will teach you.

obviously the school system is terrible or you were a terrible student.

democracy is a participatory system.

you follow what is going on and you participate in various ways.

the reason you have democracy is because people in the past faught against those that would deny basic rights to all people. Those fighters died for your freedom. You and I and everyone technically is obligated to keep the 'system going' unless we are willing to leave it of our own freewill. In other words you may be called upon in future to fight those that would take freedom away from you and future generations. Do your duty. Be a man.

NEO, the United States of America is NOT a Democracy. It is a Constitutional DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

ECK,

actually I will agree with you this time.

you are correct.

better still there has never been a true democracy, not even Athens which many hold up as the model for democracy which never was by the way.

still that does not change he validity of my statements because democracy and human rights are all relative in the end. If we have the most freedom then we are the best off. Certainly there could be more and better and we should strive towards that at all times.

Actually, the modern version of Democracy was originated in Greece...But what most people don't realize is that "demos" (in Greek) means "citizen body". This is how Greece & early America justified the practice of slavery in a Democracy...Since slaves (& non-naturalized immigrants) are *not* actual citizens, they weren't allowed to participate in the government.

...Nowadays, with the Patriot Act & the other followups to it, the government can "justify" the practice of *removing* citizenship status on anyone they wish...

Scary thought, huh?...


BTW, we're not any kind of "Constitutional" form of government anymore either...Or are you not aware of how much the government's been using the Constitution as toilet paper?...

Easy to say that the US should reinstate the draft when you are a Canadian, eh Neo.

I think that anyone who is so keen about having a draft should have at least served in the military. Kind of hypocritical if you didn't.

Originally posted by greenkoolaid
Easy to say that the US should reinstate the draft when you are a Canadian, eh Neo.

I think that anyone who is so keen about having a draft should have at least served in the military. Kind of hypocritical if you didn't.

It's very easy to say this and say that, but not quite so easy to submit oneself to service. I did it and feel blessed because it wound up being an excellent experience all the way around. Even through the war. I was lucky. But then again, it was a far more disciplined, bigger, stronger Army back then.

Eck,
Quote-"WASHINGTON (AP) - Companies awarded $8 billion in contracts to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan have been major campaign donors to President Bush, and their executives have had important political and military connections, according to a study released Thursday.
The study of more than 70 U.S. companies and individual contractors turned up more than $500,000 in donations to the president�s 2000 campaign, more than they gave collectively to any other politician over the past dozen years.
The report was released by the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based research organization that produces investigative articles on special interests and ethics in government. Its staff includes journalists and researchers.

Who did you say we were fighting for?"-End Quote

I see nothing wrong with this. This is just good capitalism. The money and resources to rebuild a country needs to come from someone and it seems the US citizens don't want to, so big business has to. There isn't anything wrong contributing to the presidential fund either. You are even asked when you pay US taxes if you want to. These companies just contributed more. BTW I'm not a murderer, I'm a patriot. I fight on what I believe in. I fight for our way of life. If you would of accused one of the founding fathers this, they'd say the same. You just don't like Bush, I don't know if this stems from a personal grudge of yours against Dad Bush, maybe for making you fight or giving your buddies supposedly GWS. I don't know.


[Edited on 10-31-2003 by Cearbhall]

Originally posted by Cearbhall
Eck,
Quote-"WASHINGTON (AP) - Companies awarded $8 billion in contracts to rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan have been major campaign donors to President Bush, and their executives have had important political and military connections, according to a study released Thursday.
The study of more than 70 U.S. companies and individual contractors turned up more than $500,000 in donations to the president�s 2000 campaign, more than they gave collectively to any other politician over the past dozen years.
The report was released by the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based research organization that produces investigative articles on special interests and ethics in government. Its staff includes journalists and researchers.

Who did you say we were fighting for?"-End Quote

I see nothing wrong with this. This is just good capitalism.

From ECK:
Explain to us please, how NO BID CONTRACTS and seizing all assets rightfully belonging to the Iraqi citizens, coupled with the executive order Bush signed regarding the complete legal protection of any oil industry related criminal offense.. This whole thing is corrupt on the face of it. It has been proven, clearly, that America was lied to and their "proof" was completely fabricated from within the Office of Special Operations (Pentagon). If you weren't a total lemming and posessed the ability to think independently and do the slightest bit of research, you would most certainly come to a different conclusion. You choose to see only what you wish to see. The truth is too much for your fragile mind to grasp. You cannot bear the thought of all your illusions being shattered.


The money and resources to rebuild a country needs to come from someone and it seems the US citizens don't want to, so big business has to.

From ECK:
It was the military/industrial complex who led us into this farce they call a war. The leaders of Halliburton and Bechtel wanted this war. There was no HAD TO about it.

There isn't anything wrong contributing to the presidential fund either. You are even asked when you pay US taxes if you want to. These companies just contributed more.

From ECK:
Yes, they are well known and called Pioneers. Many of them have been given sweetheart business deals and Ambassadorships. But then again, Democratic donors get the same cushy treatment. It's goes both ways.

BTW I'm not a murderer, I'm a patriot.

From ECK:
You are a fascist lemming. You cannot bear dissent from your opinion. You try and verbally denigrate anyone with an oposing view. Go get a dictionary and review your position. A book on Hitler and Nazi Germany might serve you well, too.

From ECK:
I also fight for what I believe in. I joined the Army on my own volition. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, I went willingly and with passion because I believed in the liberation of the Kuwaiti people and I understand that we had to protect the oil fields as that was in our nation's vital interest. Your silly and petty attacks do not apply to me.

I fight on what I believe in.

From ECK:
What war have you ever fought?

I fight for our way of life.

From ECK:
You do not fight for me or my nation. Your views are fascist. I fought for your right to feel that way. You do not understand free speech/the first ammendment.

If you would of accused one of the founding fathers this, they'd say the same.

From ECK:
It's quite clear you have no understanding of how our founding fathers thought. Go read the Federalist Papers then get back to us.

From ECK:
I voted for Bush and have never voted for a Democrat in my whole life. I know you find that difficult to grasp, but it is true. Clinton was a traitor, too. And I had nothing but respect for President Bush (I) until I became immersed in political science and much research. You have obviously avoided any and all truth regarding his dealings. I am quite saddened, if you want to know the truth, as he was MY COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. You will be lost until you find it within yourself to open your eyes and discover the truth. And by the way, as a Christian, I understand that we are not to place our faith in any man, but in God alone. Or, in the words of Reagan, "Trust BUT verify."

You just don't like Bush, I don't know if this stems from a personal grudge of yours against Dad Bush, maybe for making you fight

From ECK:
That satement is patently absurd, as no one MADE me join and no MADE me fight. I believed in our mission.

or giving your buddies supposedly GWS. I don't know.




[Edited on 10-31-2003 by Cearbhall]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

i registered for the draft yesterday, and i felt very pround about it.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
It's very easy to say this and say that, but not quite so easy to submit oneself to service. I did it and feel blessed because it wound up being an excellent experience all the way around.

Of all of the complaining I've done about the military in various posts throughout these forums, I have to say that my time in service did *one* thing positive for me...

...IT WOKE ME UP enough to find out how the government *really* runs. Without that, I would've never started researching the way I do now.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
It's very easy to say this and say that, but not quite so easy to submit oneself to service. I did it and feel blessed because it wound up being an excellent experience all the way around.

Of all of the complaining I've done about the military in various posts throughout these forums, I have to say that my time in service did *one* thing positive for me...

...IT WOKE ME UP enough to find out how the government *really* runs. Without that, I would've never started researching the way I do now.

I'm with ya there, buddy!

The only reason that my service term woke me up was because I could see the blatent brainwashing techniques they use from bootcamp on...And refused to submit to it. Reason prevailed over the "status quo"...

...Speaking of "status quo", I wonder how many "conservatives" really think that supporting the "status quo" is such a good thing to do...After all, look at how screwed up that "staus quo" *really* is!

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
The only reason that my service term woke me up was because I could see the blatent brainwashing techniques they use from bootcamp on...And refused to submit to it. Reason prevailed over the "status quo"...

...Speaking of "status quo", I wonder how many "conservatives" really think that supporting the "status quo" is such a good thing to do...After all, look at how screwed up that "staus quo" *really* is!

Well, the awful truth of the matter is some "brainwashing" must occur in order to make soldiers do what they unfortunately have to do, i.e. make war. It goes against everything humane. A good example of "good" brainwashing is the way soldiers are trained in Airborne school. Do this do this do this DO NOT THINK - JUST DO THIS LIKE I TELL YOU. If you submit to that training, it most likely will keep you alive when the shyte hits the fan. People who get hurt in Airborne school and jumping, for the most part, are the ones who didn't react the way they were trained to.

I've been a conservative (PALEO), that is, all my life. And I can assure you, I do not support this status quo. This NEO CON insanity, that is. Before they came along, I was called a "hawk" by most. They've pretty much turned that on its head. Politically, I am now an independent. I refuse to check my brain at the door and follow any party blindely.

The main reason I was able to understand the scope of our trouble/corruption is because, like you, MidnightDestroyer, I served in the belly of the beast. I saw it firsthand for myself. I know how it works.

I am proud of my service, though, and glad for the experience.

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Well, the awful truth of the matter is some "brainwashing" must occur in order to make soldiers do what they unfortunately have to do, i.e. make war.

I was aware that a certain amount of brainwashing is required...However, that would be most appropriate for those soldiers who are slotted into "combat-related" rates. For those who were meant for support far behind the lines don't need that kind of brainwashing because it gets in the way of *actually using their brains* to do those particular jobs.

For example, in the Navy, I was an OTM...Perfomance in our rate required absolutely *no* contact with battle or even to *approach* any areas where battle was likely. Our job, in a nutshell (because it's a secruity rate & a nutshell is all I can give you) was to perform maintenence & repair on computer-based data processing systems...And *none* of these systems were locate in any area that was likely to be invaded; Even in that case, there were other, more combat-oriented rates, that were in charge of security anyway. Granted, I still had to learn how to shoot, but I would have never been required to actually *use* a gun.

I was in a rate that required *brains* not *brainwashing*...But the military still uses such brainwashing on a service-wide basis.