Oh, so now PTS is shoved down our throats?

One question about PTS:Middle East.

how come some threads, which are to do with religious prophecies in them appear on PTS plus one of the threads is about 2012. Even conspiracies threads are in PTS

If i recall PTS was meant to be non-conspiracy

[edit on 17-7-2006 by infinite]

PTS is supposed to be Politics only-

I dont know whats going on.

That's Politics!

I'm actively encouraging some "bleed-over" of conspiracies to PTS, because many conspiracies have a political angle. And if members want to talk conspiracies on PTS, I'm not about to send them away.

Though of course I want to encourage topical discussion overall, I also want members to feel free to explore all the aspects of a topic that catch their interest without worrying about some sort of official backlash.

Therefore, just as there will always be politics seeping into otherwise "pristine" conspiracy discussions on ATS (which is actively discouraged), there also will be conspiracies seeping into otherwise "pristine" political discussions on PTS (which is actively encouraged).

Nonetheless, there is a line of delineation of sorts, and maybe this example can help:

If a member posts a story about El Chupacabra being spotted in Mexico, that's an ATS story.

However, if a member posts a story about El Chupacabra being spotted running for president in Mexico, then that's a PTS story.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Originally posted by Majic
If a member posts a story about El Chupacabra being spotted in Mexico, that's an ATS story.

However, if a member posts a story about El Chupacabra being spotted running for president in Mexico, then that's a PTS story.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

Rofl. Yup, sure did.

Originally posted by Majic
And if members want to talk conspiracies on PTS, I'm not about to send them away.

isn't that like stealing ATS threads? I recall that PTS was only politics, thats why it was created.

However, if a member posts a story about El Chupacabra being spotted running for president in Mexico, then that's a PTS story.

How is it? just cause it mentions a political entity? if thats the case, the New World Order section should be moved to PTS along with the Prediction section too...

Hanging By A Thread

Originally posted by infinite
isn't that like stealing ATS threads?

It depends on how you look at it.

For over a year and a half, and well after PTS was founded, members have been talking about politics on ATS. This despite the fact that PTS was created specifically to serve as a board dedicated to political discussion.

Why?

There are several reasons, but I think the overall problem is that PTS hasn't been offering what ATSers want. We have voted with our feet.

Including me. I've avoided PTS the way most ATSers have.

I don't come here to talk politics. I think politics is boring. I'm interested in conspiracies.

Strange Bedfellows

So what would make political discussion interesting to ATSers? Conspiracies, of course -- and the freedom to go as deep into politics as we want without fear of retribution for having strong opinions.

The reason I took this job is because I am confident that PTS can prove to be something far more important than the "ATS political basement".

I think PTS can serve as a tool which will give us as a community the power to expose the truth behind politics -- the unvarnished, godawful, nasty, honest-to-God truth, conspiracies and all.

The truth is that politics the world over is rife with conspiracies and they are inseparable. In practice, you really can't talk one without the other. And I see this as the elephant in the room that we have tried to ignore.

Border Dispute

Getting back to your question, if a thread doesn't involve politics, then I consider it properly at home on ATS. Also, some ATS-only topics may well include political figures or whatnot, and also be at home on ATS.

But if we think of PTS as a "politics only" site where members go to spout propaganda (which is okay on PTS, but not all there is to it) and forbid discussion of conspiracies there, then we might as well shut the place down or label it honestly as a big trash bin.

And actually, when you look at it objectively, PTS stealing threads from ATS isn't the problem, but rather ATS stealing threads from PTS! Every political thread on ATS is a thread that should be on PTS.

That's what all the crackdowns and ultimatums have been about -- and they have NOT been working.

I'm adopting a radically different (and apparently controversial ) approach to PTS, and there's a lot more to the story than I can repeat here.

For more on this, see: Politics: The New PTS Revolution

Bend Like A Reed

Originally posted by infinite
I recall that PTS was only politics, thats why it was created.

Indeed. And members essentially rejected the idea, so I'm trying something members will like, instead.

Remember: the guiding philosophy for ATS as a whole is giving you, the members, what you want.

That's really all I'm trying to do with PTS.

Let's go with what works.

PTS isn't quite as busy as I'd like it to be. Could somebody please move this thread to "Other Global Politics"? I think ATS politics should count there.

Originally posted by Majic
That's Politics!

I'm actively encouraging some "bleed-over" of conspiracies to PTS, because many conspiracies have a political angle.

IMO - any decent conspiracy covers the political angles - that's the essence of a good conspiracy. Otherwise, the best laid plans would be blown right out of the water real quick.

Almost every thread I've authored here is about a conspiracy, usually medical. I'm also hot on the conspiracy of censorship and control of the media - and emphatically UNinterested in party politics, despite certain allegations made here.

Even so, the last two threads I started got sent to PTS.

...Looks like a gulag, smells like a gulag, sounds like a gulag.

But good luck majic - keep fighting the good fight.

Originally posted by infinite

However, if a member posts a story about El Chupacabra being spotted running for president in Mexico, then that's a PTS story.

Amen. That is next weeks' story. Cant wait.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Valhall
Did you do this?

I did it and as I said, I'm not finished yet.

Well, then that's a crying shame isn't it? Because this pile of steaming crap...

Originally posted by Majic

Originally posted by infinite
I recall that PTS was only politics, thats why it was created.

Indeed. And members essentially rejected the idea, so I'm trying something members will like, instead.

Remember: the guiding philosophy for ATS as a whole is giving you, the members, what you want.

That's really all I'm trying to do with PTS.

is nothing but false statements. The members of ATS didn't reject anything about the idea of separating PTS away and getting the vitriolic political drivel YOU have been lamenting out of this section of the domain, did they?

Apparently, only majic lamented the separation and the lack of participation by ATS members...or did you lament it as well?

The truth of the matter is the ATS members did not reject the idea of separating PTS away...so who is trying to zoom who here? And why can we not discuss the activities of the current conflict in the middle east without having to subject ourselves to the acidic nature of PTS?

Why have you taken this stance? All I'm asking is for you to answer why this has happened - instead of you allowing majic's false statements to stand as the reason. BECAUSE THEY ARE UNTRUE.

It's wrong to handle this that way.

Awe, jeez. Pretty please, let's just drop this eh Val and Majic?? In the interest of ATS unity, maybe? Please?

All in all, with the changes that SO made to be able to customize the system, now I am extremely sorry I started this thread, before or in the midst of him completing his mission. I should know by now to keep my damn mouth shut when it comes to the moves by the admins UNTIL, at least, they have played themselves out. It was another knee-jerk reaction on my part, I admit it. And I am sorry. But it is actually better now than it was, IMO, and am glad for the new options, because hey, we can each see what we want. How could it possibly be any better? So for the love of God (or Allah, if you wish) please bury this thread and chalk it up to another idiot, me, for being just that: an idiot.

Originally posted by Valhall
Why have you taken this stance?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

PTS and Me

If I could I’d just like to add my two cents regarding PTS. When I first started posting on PTS I thought it would be no different than ATS... boy was I wrong . I got introduced to the, lets just say in your face out there style of PTS real quick and after my few posts I wanted nothing to do with it, it left a bad taste in my mouth. I much preferred the "civil" good ol’ atmosphere of ATS. Recently though I’ve begun posting on PTS again due to the situation in the ME (you guys are a bit trigger happy when it comes to moving threads though) and so far the experience has been very different, for me its been almost like posting on ATS but with a certain PTS flavor which I don't mind. Anyway I guess what I’m trying to say is that for me the phrase New and Improved is not just some hollow saying, I now don't mind posting on PTS and even look forward to doing so. If you've had a bad experience with PTS in the past, well, give it another try, it IS different, get over the stigma and check it out, you might just be surprised. Anyway that's my view on the whole PTS situation and personally I think Majic and everyone else involved are doing a great job of making the entire ATS community a better place of us all.

EDIT:
Give it a try. Politics at Above Top Secret.com

[edit on 17-7-2006 by WestPoint23]

Finding The Way

Originally posted by Valhall
It's wrong to handle this that way.

This may indeed be a mistake, and I think good people can disagree about the best way to proceed, as we can about so many other things.

I've been tasked with solving a problem which dates back to well before the founding of PTS and remains with us to this day, and I fully intend to solve it.

This effort may fail. If so, it won't be because I didn't try, and I am willing to take the chance.

Far more importantly, I'm not alone in this endeavor, and have many others by my side -- some of our finest members, whom I respect tremendously -- who have stepped up to the plate and are also willing to take the chance.

That's why I am confident this effort will succeed: because I'm not going it alone.

We will succeed in accomplishing the goal which has eluded us so for so long.

The True Measure Of Success

Regarding allegations that I am making false statements, it's no secret that I am fallible and may well be mistaken about some things, but I'm not out to deceive anyone.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I can live with that, and make no representations that I am incapable of error.

Members have rejected PTS by staying away from it. PTS has not served its intended purpose, because it has not given members what they want.

More to the point, what has gone before on PTS is history -- history I am determined not to repeat. What matters is what's happening now and what comes next.

The old PTS is already gone, strangled and defeated by its own limitations. From it the new PTS is rising, and now the only limit is our own imagination.

The membership as a whole will decide the wisdom or folly of this new direction, and I am quite comfortable with that.

If PTS doesn't deliver what members want, then it deserves to fail.

I believe with all my heart that we are going to succeed.

Time will tell.

Originally posted by Majic
Members have rejected PTS by staying away from it. PTS has not served its intended purpose, because it has not given members what they want.

And what did WE want? moving certain things over so that we have to visit PTS?
If I recall, PTS was created to discuss politics and BTS was created to relax. They were both intended to have a non-conspiracy point of view. A place to escape from the tin-foil community

The old PTS is already gone, strangled and defeated by its own limitations. From it the new PTS is rising, and now the only limit is our own imagination.

But that is going against what PTS is intended to be. Is that what members want though? cause, according to you, we "rejected" PTS...i don't see us demanding changes to PTS.

Why not have a survey asking members what they would like to see on PTS and what subjects they feel are suited to it.

Im not bashing your balls Majic, but i think changing PTS and move over threads and subjects (which are very popular on ATS) just to make members visit, is wrong.

Thats my opinon and final thoughts.

Well i find it strange that if you google for Antichrist in Pts a lot of threads come up for some strange reason

Why is that ? I thought that would be more conspiracy based rather than political

Originally posted by WestPoint23
If you've had a bad experience with PTS in the past, well, give it another try, it IS different, get over the stigma and check it out, you might just be surprised.

I couldn't agree more. The very fact that Westie and I agree so fully on something without going to 'our political corners' is a sign of the new PTS.

Let's admit it, PTS was a boneyard. The scrapheap to which threads were relegated when people started fighting and slinging political insults and personal attacks around. "Move it to PTS". That's how it got to be so unappealing! You throw all your crap in one place, pretty soon, you're going to have a pile of crap that nobody wants. And that's what happened.

Majic has taken on that pile of crap and is turning it into something wonderful. And I'm incredibly and pleasantly surprised at the transformation that is taking place already.

The truth is, PTS can be as civil and interesting and intriguing as ATS.

I'm not at all sure where the emotional resistance is coming from on this whole 'rebirth' of PTS. I don't really 'get' the complaints. How can people complain about making something they don't like better? Would you rather have it remain a crapheap? What's the threat? What's the dealio?

The whole stigma of threads being 'sent to PTS' as some sort of punishment or downgrading is what needs to change. We, as members, can now have higher expectations of PTS. We can realistically consider that PTS might just be as important as (if different than) ATS. We can help make PTS a respectable place, instead of ATS's trash can.

Regardless of the original purpose of PTS - IT WASN'T WORKING! It wasn't attractive. Regardless of its original intent, people weren't happy with PTS. The very fact that people are complaining about having to dip into the nastiness that is PTS shows that it's not what many people want. Now it's changing and for the better, and you're complaining? How does that make sense?

As regards conspiracies in PTS, most politics contain conspiracies. The political atmosphere in the world today is LOADED with conspiracy. What's the law about conspiracy not being allowed in PTS? Even if that was the way it was originally, it's apparently changing.

Originally posted by infinite
But that is going against what PTS is intended to be. Is that what members want though? cause, according to you, we "rejected" PTS...i don't see us demanding changes to PTS.

Whatever PTS was intended to be or however it was being managed wasn't working for the vast majority of intelligent, refined ATSers. Is there any argument with that? We rejected PTS, yes, by the simple choice to not go there. No we weren't demanding changes, we rejected it by not going there. It was a crap heap! It was the 'special needs' step child of ATS.

In my opinion, Majic has seen the potential in this step child and is tapping into it's potential. And, along with the movement toward civility all across the board, it's making ATS and PTS better places to be. How can people possibly not support that?

And if you don't support it, there are ways to just stay out of PTS. But if you start a political thread, don't be suprised if it gets moved to Politics @ ATS, where it belongs. If you don't wish to discuss politics, great. You can stay in ATS and never have to set eyes on PTS. But if you're discussing politics, you can discuss it in PTS with the rest of us.

BH,

I'll raise you 1 cent. Here's my .50

I think amazing things are happening at PTS and i love it. For a long time, it was a place to be moved to as "punishment"....at least that is how i perceived it. For the first time since i've been here, i actually think that not only is it better, but it works.
"Stories" are finally where they should be, and i am pleased.

I dont like to get involved in ATS politics, (the real politics) but i want to say the change is good and very welcome.

Thanks to all who helped make it happen.

.



It looks like less than 5% of ATS visitors see PTS threads on the recent posts list.

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Members might see PTS threads on their recent threads list - but no one else does. So what's all the fuss about?

Great work BTW amigos - hot site you're building here.


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