Oh, so now PTS is shoved down our throats?, page 3
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reply posted on 17-7-2006 @ 06:08 PM by Majic
Hanging By A Thread

Originally posted by infinite
isn't that like stealing ATS threads?

It depends on how you look at it.

For over a year and a half, and well after PTS was founded, members have been talking about politics on ATS. This despite the fact that PTS was created specifically to serve as a board dedicated to political discussion.

Why?

There are several reasons, but I think the overall problem is that PTS hasn't been offering what ATSers want. We have voted with our feet.

Including me. I've avoided PTS the way most ATSers have.

I don't come here to talk politics. I think politics is boring. I'm interested in conspiracies.

Strange Bedfellows

So what would make political discussion interesting to ATSers? Conspiracies, of course -- and the freedom to go as deep into politics as we want without fear of retribution for having strong opinions.

The reason I took this job is because I am confident that PTS can prove to be something far more important than the "ATS political basement".

I think PTS can serve as a tool which will give us as a community the power to expose the truth behind politics -- the unvarnished, godawful, nasty, honest-to-God truth, conspiracies and all.

The truth is that politics the world over is rife with conspiracies and they are inseparable. In practice, you really can't talk one without the other. And I see this as the elephant in the room that we have tried to ignore.

Border Dispute

Getting back to your question, if a thread doesn't involve politics, then I consider it properly at home on ATS. Also, some ATS-only topics may well include political figures or whatnot, and also be at home on ATS.

But if we think of PTS as a "politics only" site where members go to spout propaganda (which is okay on PTS, but not all there is to it) and forbid discussion of conspiracies there, then we might as well shut the place down or label it honestly as a big trash bin.

And actually, when you look at it objectively, PTS stealing threads from ATS isn't the problem, but rather ATS stealing threads from PTS! Every political thread on ATS is a thread that should be on PTS.

That's what all the crackdowns and ultimatums have been about -- and they have NOT been working.

I'm adopting a radically different (and apparently controversial ) approach to PTS, and there's a lot more to the story than I can repeat here.

For more on this, see: Politics: The New PTS Revolution

Bend Like A Reed

Originally posted by infinite
I recall that PTS was only politics, thats why it was created.

Indeed. And members essentially rejected the idea, so I'm trying something members will like, instead.

Remember: the guiding philosophy for ATS as a whole is giving you, the members, what you want.

That's really all I'm trying to do with PTS.

Let's go with what works.


reply posted on 17-7-2006 @ 11:54 PM by Majic
Finding The Way

Originally posted by Valhall
It's wrong to handle this that way.

This may indeed be a mistake, and I think good people can disagree about the best way to proceed, as we can about so many other things.

I've been tasked with solving a problem which dates back to well before the founding of PTS and remains with us to this day, and I fully intend to solve it.

This effort may fail. If so, it won't be because I didn't try, and I am willing to take the chance.

Far more importantly, I'm not alone in this endeavor, and have many others by my side -- some of our finest members, whom I respect tremendously -- who have stepped up to the plate and are also willing to take the chance.

That's why I am confident this effort will succeed: because I'm not going it alone.

We will succeed in accomplishing the goal which has eluded us so for so long.

The True Measure Of Success

Regarding allegations that I am making false statements, it's no secret that I am fallible and may well be mistaken about some things, but I'm not out to deceive anyone.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I can live with that, and make no representations that I am incapable of error.

Members have rejected PTS by staying away from it. PTS has not served its intended purpose, because it has not given members what they want.

More to the point, what has gone before on PTS is history -- history I am determined not to repeat. What matters is what's happening now and what comes next.

The old PTS is already gone, strangled and defeated by its own limitations. From it the new PTS is rising, and now the only limit is our own imagination.

The membership as a whole will decide the wisdom or folly of this new direction, and I am quite comfortable with that.

If PTS doesn't deliver what members want, then it deserves to fail.

I believe with all my heart that we are going to succeed.

Time will tell.


reply posted on 18-7-2006 @ 05:54 AM by Fett Pinkus
Well i find it strange that if you google for Antichrist in Pts a lot of threads come up for some strange reason

Why is that ? I thought that would be more conspiracy based rather than political


reply posted on 18-7-2006 @ 07:53 AM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by WestPoint23
If you've had a bad experience with PTS in the past, well, give it another try, it IS different, get over the stigma and check it out, you might just be surprised.


I couldn't agree more. The very fact that Westie and I agree so fully on something without going to 'our political corners' is a sign of the new PTS.

Let's admit it, PTS was a boneyard. The scrapheap to which threads were relegated when people started fighting and slinging political insults and personal attacks around. "Move it to PTS". That's how it got to be so unappealing! You throw all your crap in one place, pretty soon, you're going to have a pile of crap that nobody wants. And that's what happened.

Majic has taken on that pile of crap and is turning it into something wonderful. And I'm incredibly and pleasantly surprised at the transformation that is taking place already.

The truth is, PTS can be as civil and interesting and intriguing as ATS.

I'm not at all sure where the emotional resistance is coming from on this whole 'rebirth' of PTS. I don't really 'get' the complaints. How can people complain about making something they don't like better? Would you rather have it remain a crapheap? What's the threat? What's the dealio?

The whole stigma of threads being 'sent to PTS' as some sort of punishment or downgrading is what needs to change. We, as members, can now have higher expectations of PTS. We can realistically consider that PTS might just be as important as (if different than) ATS. We can help make PTS a respectable place, instead of ATS's trash can.

Regardless of the original purpose of PTS - IT WASN'T WORKING! It wasn't attractive. Regardless of its original intent, people weren't happy with PTS. The very fact that people are complaining about having to dip into the nastiness that is PTS shows that it's not what many people want. Now it's changing and for the better, and you're complaining? How does that make sense?

As regards conspiracies in PTS, most politics contain conspiracies. The political atmosphere in the world today is LOADED with conspiracy. What's the law about conspiracy not being allowed in PTS? Even if that was the way it was originally, it's apparently changing.

Originally posted by infinite
But that is going against what PTS is intended to be. Is that what members want though? cause, according to you, we "rejected" PTS...i don't see us demanding changes to PTS.


Whatever PTS was intended to be or however it was being managed wasn't working for the vast majority of intelligent, refined ATSers. Is there any argument with that? We rejected PTS, yes, by the simple choice to not go there. No we weren't demanding changes, we rejected it by not going there. It was a crap heap! It was the 'special needs' step child of ATS.

In my opinion, Majic has seen the potential in this step child and is tapping into it's potential. And, along with the movement toward civility all across the board, it's making ATS and PTS better places to be. How can people possibly not support that?

And if you don't support it, there are ways to just stay out of PTS. But if you start a political thread, don't be suprised if it gets moved to Politics @ ATS, where it belongs. If you don't wish to discuss politics, great. You can stay in ATS and never have to set eyes on PTS. But if you're discussing politics, you can discuss it in PTS with the rest of us.
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