It's like I said above:

I mean, tv is(at least on the surface) a voluntary thing(not counting any addiction/dependency one may get).

Can't really be sure.

Oh and yeah, media in general is just a less lively and glitzy facsimile of t.v. .


X




[edit on 6-7-2006 by Xatnys]

Originally posted by Xatnys


It's like I said above:

I mean, tv is(at least on the surface) a voluntary thing(not counting any addiction/dependency one may get).

Fair enough X, I've got my glasses on now

Wow this is great and now that I think of it yeah it make a effective plropaganda tool. For most of my young life I didn't have a T.V. so I learned everthing by experence and my envieorment I was only able to watch T.V. in my friends house so it never effected me. I always nevered liked watching T.V. even now I do

Good topic guy

What about the episodes that are politically motivated. I watched an episode last night that was all about the politcal system (Krusty runs for Congress) and it was nothing but satire on our system! Does propaganda usually involve bashing the system it's trying to indoctrine?

I agree TV discourages critical thinking, but if it's propaganda then it's in the interest of "the corperation" and not some goverment agency.

I think the Simpsons is easily one of the paramounts of tv shows. It has more episodes than ANY other animated show, and is simply amazing. Even now they make new episodes, with a Simpsons movie following suit. Children watch it and think it's funny, though they understand very few of the allusions made in it. (some) Adults watch it and realize how much it has to do with our world. Our Human Geography teacher this year in school actually put entire lessons together where we would watch an episode of the Simpsons, and have to answer questions about what it related to and what they were making fun of that was happening in our world. I deem Simpsons one of the top tv shows of all times; very powerful though few people realize it. I'm one of those people that could live without watching tv; except I LOVE movies. I just don't spend hours a day watching tv and I get my news online.

I believe watching any programming is ok as long as it is done in small doses.

But the Simpsons as a propaganda and people viewing them as role models for how to act in society, I say hogwash.

I believe that anybody watching television should have the ability to discern from it what they want, leave the fantasy on the screen and go about your everyday life as you normallywould do. But, for the people that can't handle it, disable the cable or throw your set out.

I'm late to this thread, so my apologies if I'm repeating what someone has already said.

Delta Alter, you said early on in the thread that all TV programming is geared to spreading propaganda and making money. I've worked most of my life in media-related fields and I can assure you that those two objectives contradict one another, except (as Essan said) when it comes to advertising, which is 'propaganda' (not really) used to sell a specific product or service.

Propaganda, which is information or disinformation used for political ends, is something that costs money; it certainly doesn't make any. Every media professional knows this.

Your original point about The Simpsons confuses cause and effect. The programme is not trying to make people behave like the Simpsons or adopt their values; on the contrary, it leverages already-existing perceptions and stereotypes in order to entertain, provoke with insight and (occasionallly and quite overtly) make an ethical or political point. This is called art.

Have you never heard the phrase 'art holds a mirror up to life'? That's what you're seeing -- a reflection in the mirror of life -- but you're confusing the reflection with the reality.

By the way, I don't own a TV, either.

Why has Goerge W. Bush never been portrayed in the Simpsons (except as a cardboard cutout in an episode featuring his father many years ago)?

Compare how many times Clinton was portrayed including while president and afterwards.

The Dove

Originally posted by Truthwillsetyoufree


But the Simpsons as a propaganda and people viewing them as role models for how to act in society, I say hogwash.

I believe that anybody watching television should have the ability to discern from it what they want, leave the fantasy on the screen and go about your everyday life as you normallywould do. But, for the people that can't handle it, disable the cable or throw your set out.

Hi Truthwillsetyoufree,

I don't believe ANYBODY in their right mind (or otherwise) would view these as role models. That is not the point I am trying to make.

This programme is on every day, endless episodes on an endless loop.
It is more of an indoctrination - "This is life, this is the Norm."

Think about it, does it not fit in with your neighbourhood? (or perceptions of it?)
Useless policing, respectless feral children, inept workers, ignorant, small minded residents, under-qualified teachers, constant crime, laziness, apathy, greed, selfishness, the list really does go on and on.

Don't get me wrong. I don't know whereabouts in the world that you live - but it seems to mirror life where I live - and depressingly so.

It is almost as if we have to resign to a certain lifestyle because 'That is just the way it is.' When in fact, it DOESN'T have to be like this - it's just they way 'they' want us to exist- Subservient to the system.

And once again - I don't doubt the satire and the wit. But it is a good way of getting us 'On Side.' ......"How can they be FOR it when they are taking the p#ss out of it??"

Originally posted by Astyanax
Have you never heard the phrase 'art holds a mirror up to life'? That's what you're seeing -- a reflection in the mirror of life -- but you're confusing the reflection with the reality.

TV created the both the mirror and the reflection. Our lives mirror that which television tells us.

It would be interesting to see a society not created by the Dictator that is the Media.

Originally posted by Columbus
Why has Goerge W. Bush never been portrayed in the Simpsons (except as a cardboard cutout in an episode featuring his father many years ago)?

THAT VERY EPISODE is the one that has been post edited (during the Bush Jr administration, years after the original airing)

I mentioned before, but again...
Murdoch pulled strings on his Simpsons cash cow, and took away a good laugh, in order to support Jeb Bush. Usually they are fairly liberal biased, but that was an obvious "put jebs name back in there for me, would ya Rupert?" \
Ruppert ought to be ashamed to taint his saving grace show.

In one episode, Mr Murdoch thanks Bart for a Donation to a Fox telethon, and says "you saved my network..." barts return comment was " wouldn't be the first time"
and he is right...

Fox wouldn't exist without the Simpsons success... and Ruppert messed with his best, in order to push a republican future presidential candidate... (by changing Homers quote "george bush Jr, and the other one" to the very unfunny quote of "George bush Jr, and Jeb bush"...
well, ha ha ha Mr Murdoch...

A simpsons fan never forgets those that taint the Simpsons bible...

If there's one film that I saw recently which was an attempt at conditioning, it was Team America.

I remember people saying when it came out "Oh you must see it! It's so funny! It makes fun of everything!"

I also remember the creators saying "we don't take a political stance"


Yeah.....right.

'Team America' was a Neocon wet dream about America being the saviours of the world, it showed anti-war people as being colloborators with dictators, and Paris being destroyed was deemed OK in the film, because 'we got the terrorist' in Paris at the same time, not withstanding the portrayal there was armed Al-Qaeda people in France (Against the Iraq War, hence they are evil cheese eating surrender monkeys who colloborate with terrorists.)

There was also a song which explained that in so many words that you may not like how America deals with the world's problems, but it's the best way. (RE: The song about dicks and assholes.)

Then there was linking Kim Il Sung to Al-Qaeda.

Conditioning us that they have links (As if) and conditioning us for war in the future.

It did not even attempt to be a film that was balanced paradosing comedy at all, it was a Right wing rant against those who are against the War On Terror, and war in general.


Basically it was saying "It's ok to be twerps and commit dirty deeds, as long as it's for the greater good. Get used to it"

The White House must have loved it. A conditioning of how things are, and demonising those who oppose.

It was a direct response to Fahrenheit 9/11. (Michael Moore portrayed as Evil traitor and suicide bomber, more demonisation.)

Exploiting pop culture to further PNAC aims.

Excellent post, Regensturm

That is such a brilliant example of what I was trying to say. I haven't seen the film, (Is it the one using puppets?) But I also have had many people tell me how amusing and satirical it is.

Originally posted by Delta Alter
Excellent post, Regensturm

Thanks Delta Alter, I had to chime in, it's been pent up inside me for awhile.

Originally posted by Delta Alter
That is such a brilliant example of what I was trying to say. I haven't seen the film, (Is it the one using puppets?) But I also have had many people tell me how amusing and satirical it is.

It is indeed the one with the puppets, modelled on a TV series in the 60's called 'Thunderbirds'.

People told me also that it was amusing and satirical.

Watching it, I saw it for what it was.

Dreadful PNAC propaganda.

Orwell warned of the telescreens in '1984'....

A few years ago I decided to quit watching TV for a couple of weeks. I was conducting a little experiment on myself,....just to satisfy my curiosity. I wanted to know if I'd miss it, if I could entertain myself without it and so forth.

It felt great. I re-discovered books among many other things. TV didn't seem to serve any valuable purpose, but I wasn't going to ignore some of the postivies either.

If you've been working hard all day, you want to get home, sit down on the sofa and relax. You want to take your mind away from the every-day problems, bills, whatever it is that bothers you. Some television shows are perfect for that. They help divert your mind, maybe help you laugh because you've had nothing else to laugh about all day. TV is effortless short-term entertainment, even more effortless than reading a book. All you have to do is just sit there and watch. It is perfect for the tired and lazy souls out there, and there's plenty of those in the world.
Television shows reflect the ideas of people,... and that includes all kinds of people with all kinds of ideas and beliefs. Some are quick to insert those ideas into the script, and others not so quick. Imagine yourself writing a script for a TV show. What would you write about? I bet that no matter how honest you were, someone out there would yell "PROPAGANDA!!". If we go by your logic, everything is propaganda, including your post here. You're trying to convince people that TV is bad. What if I were to believe that you're trying to convert me to your beliefs to serve your agenda (whatever it may be)? That's B.S. of course, but I'm just giving you an example.
Many years ago I read a book by Rene Descartes. He convinced me there's a possibility that there's no such thing as an actual physical world,... only our own thoughts projected out. While he may be right and his argument is convincing, I'm not going to go through life believing everything I see is a lie, or a figment of my imagination. Many or some TV shows 'might' contain propaganda, but I'm not going to stop watching the Simpsons only because they 'might' be indoctrinating me with their propaganda. I take it for what it is; 'Entertainment', not an Educational program.

I've watched countless episodes, and I continue enjoying the show. Sometimes they present views I don't agree with, and sometimes they present views I do agree with. I've seen them bash and praise both sides, and I've definitely heard them bash FOX on numerous occasions. You mentioned that Homer (for instance) is lazy, selfish, unaccomplished, etc. Well, I've seen episodes in which he became an inventor, an astronaut, a salesman. He's been portrayed as a caring husband and father, sometimes putting his own needs aside, etc. etc. At some tasks he failed, and he succeeded at others. Same with Marge. There is a lot of variety in that show, but I feel you focus only on the negative aspects of it to prove your point. After years of watching, I'm still ambitious. What's up with that? I certainly don't feel it is O.K. to lead a mediocre life, and there are countless College students and graduates who will feel the same as I do, even after years of watching the Simpsons.

I'm not arguying that TV doesn't dish out propaganda at any time, because many times it does,..... but it is up to the individual viewer to be smart enough to be able to discern one from the other. A lot of people here seem to be capable of such things, so why not give some benefit of doubt to the rest of the population? Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't believe the individual is as dumb as you might think he/she is. Kids will always be impressionable, but eventually most grow out of it. Let's face it; If you're the kind of person who will completely change their beliefs just because some TV show told you to, you've got bigger problems.

I would be concered with the News (on any channel), but I'm only a little bit (if at all) worried about the shows. Even if you choose to quit watching TV, how will you get your world news? Newspapers? Word of mouth? The internet? I'm afraid you'll never know the truth unless you've experienced the events being reported. Even THEN you may not learn the true story of how it came about. The reporting of News is where you'll find the problem. There's no way to argue against any event being reported, unless you're there, and you know without a doubt they are reporting a blatant lie. How the heck am I supposed to know if 30 Chinese were wiped out by an explosion caused by a missile, unless I was there? For all I know they could be making it up, and creating convincing footage of the incident for me to 'witness'. So to end my rant,.... don't be too concerned with TV shows, be concerned with the News reports (any news reports). It is the News reports that shape our way of thinking,...including the thinking of TV series/movie script writers. The News (in my opinion) is the BIGGEST piece of propaganda you'll ever find anywhere in the world, I don't care what channel you're watching.

I guess I was brainwashed by Andy Griffith.

Or maybe it was THE most watched TV show of all time. BAYWATCH. That's right, it's in the Guiness Book of Records.

Or NOVA, the most watched science program,

Or maybe the Superbowl, we all know the stats on that one.

Mash anyone? The longest running show?

Or perhaps they are all just Television shows, designed, incorporated and presented to produce income. Yeah. that's probably the answer because it is the only one that makes any common sense.

(note) perhaps I was mistaken, my stomach is getting a little larger and I have an uncontrollable desire for donuts. "DOH!"

Semper

You know thats quite true..... about the propaganda and the power of the simpsons..... I don't think i could cound on 2 hands the amount of times characters have put down the democrats. now political influence. that a big one.... sure they make fun of everyone on that show.. but... they make light of war on iraq, not realy somthing kids should be getting put in there heads... desnsitisation is a big part.