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Were aliens TRULY behind the Fatima incident afterall?

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posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 04:55 AM
I recently listened to an episode of Whitley Streiber's Dreamland and in the second segment of the show, I believe it was Linda Moulton Howe that was on and she interviewed the authors of a new book entitled Heavenly Lights: The Apparitions of Light and the UFO Phenomenon. It was authored by Portugese historians Joaquim Fernandes (PhD) and Fina D'Armada. In their book, they claim that the Jesuits who were in charge in Fatima during that time did a combination of persuading, convincing, and flat-out harassing the children into saying it was Mary and the "miracle of the Sun" when they originally reportedly described their experience as a classic ET encounter. Par

From the podcast, here are the important quotes and details that I've transcribed from the the mp3. It took awhile but it cured my boredom. I did my best not to construe but don't yell at me if it's not totally word for word... I tried hard to quote quotes and a lot of is paraphrased... MODS, I apologize if I broke any rules, please forgive me!

"She [the entity] was an apparently feminine but very beautiful figure, wrapped in a light that blinded, appeared to be aproximately three and one half feet tall, appeared between 12 and 15 years old, wore a skirt, a coat, and maybe a cape that were white. Her skirt and robe had a checkered pattern of gold thread. She wore something on her head that covered her ears and hair. She had black eyes. She had a strand of beads resembling a rosary. Earrings. An illuminous ball at her waist. She came from above and disappeared little by little, back up into the sky. She made no facial movement. She did not move her legs. She spoke without moving her lips. And she moved ONLY her hands.

Furthermore, in the official interrogations in 1923 by the formal Catholic-Fatima parish inquiry, Lucia did NOT say it was the Virgin Mary. Lucia told church-investigators that when she asked the small, glowing lady at the top of the oak [tree] where she was from, the tree-top apparition quote 'pointed to the sky and said she was from there.'" Everything above is from Moulton as an introduction to the interview.

The authors either didn't speak english so the voice responding to the questions is the translator's. So what I've paraphrased here is of what has already been paraphrased from the authors.

The authors point to a conspiratorial coverup of what really happened in Fatima. These two guys formally asked the Church for the documents related to the Fatima incident and apparently uncovered some things.

"At the heart of the matter is a conspiracy by the Jesuits to cover up the fact that the entities at Fatima were not dieties descending from heaven, but rather were alien beings, visiting our planet from elsewhere in the vast cosmos."

First questionWhat evidence convinced these authors and historians that Fatima was indeed an ET-UFO encounter?

Answer: From the direct testimony from many witnesses of disc-shaped craft which started out silver but became transparent to reveal the bodies of three beings inside. And there were strange, angelic interfaces... there were apparitions floating above a particular oak-tree... that some have interpreted to possibly be holographic projection(s) from a UFO hovering above... The apparition(s) seemed to be linked to a direct ray that came from the craft above- it was being beamed from on high, it went up to the clouds.

Question: If there was technology and people saw discs, and beings in the discs and beings that were being projected, did the Jesuits force the children to lie?

Answer: Yes. First, off there's Fatima I and Fatima II. Fatima I is what the children and witnesses described of what they saw of the events in 1917. Fatima II is what the Jesuits have apparently been succesful in spreading that is completely different from what really happened. What the authors/historians are trying to explain is that the political atmosphere, prior to the establishment of the Republic of Portugal, the Church and the State had been one, single entity. BUT, the Catholic hierarchy was expelled from Portugal and fled to "Falicia." This is apparently where Lucia was raised until the age of 18 as a nun, thus, She was not allowed to speak. They were told what to do by Jesuits.

Between the two manuscripts (of what she was reported to have said), there are two descriptions. One is of a blonde-haired, white-skinned, blue-eyed girl of aproximately 14. The other description was of a being above the tree, that had black eyes and small features.

So there may have been two different species of extraterrestrials involved in this incident and it was covered up and concocted into a chain of events that was specifically designed (by the Jesuits) to convince the masses that it was a religious event.

The authors theorize that what has come to be known as the ET-phenomenon is an "interdimensional ongoing and ancient thing that we super-impose our own meaning upon." The event was molded according to a particular culture and way of thinking... this IN ADDITION to the Jesuits manipulating the people into thinking it was something totally different from the truth.... all in order to reach their goals, namely making Russia a Christian nation again.

Question: What is the authors' implication as to why the aliens are deliberately masquerading as Marian apparitions which the Catholic Church, by then, had accepted?

Answer: Basically, to provide a comfortable environment for their deliberate encounter... The authors say it would make more sense that these ETs preferred to have the people below react in as non-violent and non-hysterical as possible. In this particular time-period and location, a heavenly apparition derived from the Catholic-archetype Mary would surely be the logical choice if that was their intention. They think it was primarly extraterrestrials manipulating humans combined with the Jesuits twisting the story to fit their agenda.... but they insist there is no evidence for these particular speculations...

It's hard to say for sure what exactly happened but their book basically documents what they claim is the ORIGINAL and TRUE story, straight from reports, records etc that detailed the children's actual words.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by firebat]

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:01 AM
As for my take on it, sounds (like I said earlier) to be a classic alien encounter. Maybe the two apparitions were either ETs descending from a craft or an ET-controlled holographic projection. Who knows.

After thinking about it... how STUPID does the "Miracle of the Sun" sound to some of you all? A SECOND Sun? There's a REASON why it's called a 'Miracle' and it's because it's damned impossible. What makes more sense, LOGICALLY, is when you consider the reports that an actual disc-shaped craft of some sort was apparently reported by witnesses. This could, I SUPPOSE, be misidentified as a "second Sun" by relatively dull-minded people who looked to their religion to explain everything in the first place, why not this? But a more sensible theory would be that it's of an ET origin, or what we conceive of to be the ET phenomenon, regardless of the TRUE nature of UFOs and ETs.

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:02 AM
Interesting. I find this topic pretty interesting, i wish i could know the true story for sure.
Has the 3rd one been released? I've always been confused about that.

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:11 AM
The second book of the trilogy was released on the first of this month, as I understand it.
---EDIT: Let me clarify in case that wasn't what you mean... There is FATIMA I and that is just the name of the generally-accepted explanation that was supposedly perpetuated by a conspiracy of Jesuits whose aims were to spread Christianity. THEN, there is Fatima II which is what this book claims is what really happened. The documented reports from eye-witnesses who said they saw two distinctly different extraterrestrial entities as well as an actual disc-shaped craft.

I have Streiber's book on the Fatima Secret... but I'm seriously considering picking this one up, as well as its prequel.

Funny... as I type this, I have CNN on in the background... and they're covering a UFO festival of some sort. (Albeit in a completely disrespectful way). I'd say its a strange coincidence but has anyone ELSE noticed how these news networks are actually covering this sort of stuff much more often than before? Not nearly enough to consider it legitamate coverage.... but enough to notice that more and more people are certainly taking a look at this UFO issue. It's a good sign if you ask me.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by firebat]

[edit on 3-7-2006 by firebat]

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:39 AM
First of all, the children actually suffered greatly at the hands of the local authorities attempting to get them to DENY what they had seen (of the Lady). This included local church officials.

Secondly, if it were a UFO encounter than how do you explain that regardless of thousands of witnesses that gathered for the monthly visitation only the children saw the Lady.

People should read the full account of the story outside of those listed in this thread before making a judgement on this. If you do you will find these guesses as to what happened do not make any sense compared to the full story of the witnesses. Sr. Lucia herself has published accounts of the events of Fatima.

[edit on 7/3/2006 by Relentless]

[edit on 7/3/2006 by Relentless]

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:53 AM
This is a good thread and thank you.

I have always taken this at face value. I believe that this was a heavently body sent from God to warn us and to give us an opportunity to change our ways.
I still do.

posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 09:52 PM
Apparently the third secret has been revealed by the church as follows:

"According to Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the text of the Fatima secret “contains a prophetic vision similar to those found in sacred Scripture, which do not describe with photographic clarity the details of future events, but rather synthesize and condense against a unified background of events spread out over time in succession and a duration which are not specified. As a result, the text must be interpreted in a symbolic key.”

After establishing such clouded perimeters for understanding the prophecy, it was declared that the secret foretold the May 1981 assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II by a Turkish gunman at the Vatican. Sodano said the interpretation had been “confirmed” by Sister Lucia de Jesus dos Santos, now 93, who is the last of the Fatima visionaries living. The revelation was said to state, “the ‘bishop clothed in white’ ... makes his way with great effort toward the cross amid the corpses of those who were martyred (bishops, priests, men and women religious, and many lay persons), he too falls to the ground, apparently dead, under a burst of gunfire.”"

From here:

If it was nothing more than the assassination attempt on the pope, why all the secrecy surrounding the third secret. And the earlier essay by Ratzinger which stated it had to do with the end-times and the condition of the soul.

Alot of different faiths have produced kind, good people - is it the appropriation of UFO phenomena by the church for propaganda purposes. I read one article recently that reported fatima relayed that only catholics would be saved!

The children who witnessed it all joined the church, but they may have led those lives anyway. Portugal was and still is a very catholic nation.

I wonder what would have happened if Russia had abandoned its harsh anti-religious marxist stance. Then we may actually have a language of humane economics that doesn't automatically degrade into 'godless commie' diatribes.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by clearwater]

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