The sex conspiracy

Have you ever wondered why sex is a sin for Christianity? The christian view is that any form of sex not for reproduction under marriage is a sin. But why? why does religion say so?

For me, it is a conspiracy. It is a way to control the masses. Sex is liberating...sex is a rebellious act. The establishment does not like to be questioned...therefore a good way to control the masses is to tell them that "what your body feels is a paradox: God gave it to you, but you shouldn't do it".

This paradox is actually setup right from the beginning, with Adam and Eve. The tree of knowledge of good and bad is a metaphor for having a way of thinking that is liberating...sex is forbitten, because it is an eye opening experience.

How is the act of betrayal is narrated in the Bible? the devil, in the form of a serpent, gave an apple from the tree to Eve, which persuaded Adam to try it. That is a clear metaphor for sex! It is always the woman (Eve) that seduces the man (Adam). Eve seduced Adam with her looks to have sex, and thus they discovered knowledge of good and bad and hence kicked out of paradise.

Of course, all this did not really happen. Some wise old man understood the human nature better than others and started this story...most propably the man was a priest or a king or a spiritual leader of some kind.

doing anything for you that makes you feel good, does not really mean that it is the best thing for you.

there have been so many studies into this subject. i wonder how linked is getting people to have sex and those people being under some sort of control.

ask yourself also what are the differences, between paedo sex, oral sex, gay sex and straight sex. what are the differnces in those different in these various different sexual acts.

you should ask yourself like many scientists, what is sex?

[edit on 21-6-2006 by andy1033]

Originally posted by masterp
Have you ever wondered why sex is a sin for Christianity? The christian view is that any form of sex not for reproduction under marriage is a sin. But why?

In judaism, as I understand it (especially the older forms), the lust for sex was seen as part of the evil inclination. If we accept that there are 'fallen angels', notice what they fell for, they became material and lusted after women, the result was monstrous offspring and their inability to return to heaven.

Also, lets not single out christianity for being averse to sex. Most religions, in fact, consider sex to be a dirty and sinful act.

For me, it is a conspiracy. It is a way to control the masses.

Isn't it plausible though that people saw what the desire for sex can lead people to do, and the dangerous consequences it can have?

Also, notice, in most ancient religions, the cosmos is established via sex acts. The "Heavens" and "Earth" mate, their offspring are the gods. And also notice, out of this, comes terrible violence, the Old gods are ripped to peices, their corpses become the things that rae familiar to us. So sex is seen as creative, but dangerous, destructive, world-wrenching, powerful.

"what your body feels is a paradox: God gave it to you, but you shouldn't do it".

I don't think thats what its saying though. Those same religions, they also had herios gamos between the King (representative of the gods) and a female representative of the female gods. Their ritual annual sex act was seen as renewing the universe, and maintaining it. But it was 'controlled' as a rite, a ritual. As far as the average peopel, they too could have ritual sex with temple prostitutes, thus also engaging in that 'sacred' aspect. But, again, its controlled, or better yet, tempered. This is opposed to the wild orgiastic rites, such as that of Bacchus, where the "maniac women" work themselves up into such a destructive sexual frenzy that they rip apart a living goat with their teeth and hands (some say, not a goat, but a male participant). The idea is that the powers of sex are unrestrained, untempered, the result, death, violence. Even amoung the jews, just look at the chasidics today. Sex is seen as a sin, if its lustful and unproductive, but if its constrained within marriage, its encouraged to have as much as possible. But they fear of it being uncontrolled are so great that a chasidic man can't even shake hands with a woman who is not his wife.

The tree of knowledge of good and bad is a metaphor for having a way of thinking that is liberating...sex

I don't see why the tree of knowledge of good and evil should be taken as a metaphor for sex. Infact, they'd've probably just said that god said 'no sex', but they did so anyway, and thus fell.

the devil, in the form of a serpent, gave an apple from the tree to Eve, which persuaded Adam to try it. That is a clear metaphor for sex!

Why the serpent? ALso, the serpent isn't necessarily the devil. And agian I question, if the message was that sex is taboo, why make the message unintelligible?

I'd say that Christianity considers sex holy rather than dirty. Therefore all the "human sanctifying acts" (ie. marriage).
I'm not to sure about your assertion that "Sex is liberating...sex is a rebellious act". If what you say is right, then the reason that people would believe that "Sex is liberating...sex is a rebellious act" is BECAUSE Christianity (or peoples interpretations of it) says it's dirty. So that can't be the reason they made it dirty in the first place. The whole argument would go in circles of whether the chicken or the egg came first .

Anyhoo, there are many cultures that deal with sex differently, some have it with no importance at all (therefore no shame, do it openly, etc.). Some have it as a relatively important part of religion, and some have it as a very important part of religion. I think the Middle-East region had all three of these in different points in time.

Originally posted by masterp
But why? why does religion say so?

Because when two lay down together not only do their bodies entwine, but so do their souls. They become "one". When you engage in intimate pleasure with your mate it is God's gift of expressing your love. Sex and love were not meant to be separated. They were meant to go hand in hand. When you separate the two and throw love out the door, you are solely acting on lust (one of the 7 deadly sins). When you engage in sex without love you are essentially making the other person an "object" for sexual gratification....they have become an object to idolize (idolatry), no longer a human being, but an object for your lust, to quench it solely for selfish reasons (to attain an orgasm for your own pleasure, regardless of your feeling for that person).

Originally posted by masterp
...most propably the man was a priest or a king or a spiritual leader of some kind.

...or God.
Maybe if you read up more on Him you'll understand His rules and why He made them for you. Read Romans and Corinthians and this whole sex subject might make more sense.

Sex falls into sin when "greed" enters the equation.

Originally posted by masterp
Have you ever wondered why sex is a sin for Christianity? The christian view is that any form of sex not for reproduction under marriage is a sin. But why? why does religion say so?

I don't know where you dug that rumor up, but it isn't true. I think the catholics believe that, but for myself (a Christian), not only do I know and believe sex is, and is supose to be, wonderful and pleasurable thing (reserved for marriage), but I also look at the catholics as a cult.

Originally posted by masterp
This paradox is actually setup right from the beginning, with Adam and Eve. The tree of knowledge of good and bad is a metaphor for having a way of thinking that is liberating...sex is forbitten, because it is an eye opening experience.

What? Good grief, your ideas are about as far off from the bible as can be. You can take whatever stand you want, but what ever view you want to talk about, you have to base those ideas or at least show the case as it truely is from all sides. Sex is not forbiden. As a matter of fact, I think the bible is pretty clear that we are not suppose to decline 'putting out' to our spouses. Sex is supose to be IN MARRIAGE. There are basicaly 3 don'ts, unless you call the 'don't tell your spouse no' number 4. The 'rules'... no other people, no animals and don't do anything that will hurt your body. Anything else is good to go. If a man had a wife that followed the bibles ways of sex he'd be thrilled. Heck, there'd even be exotic dancing in the bedroom for him.
And it's not supose to be an eye opening experience - unless your a kid and still thriving on high hopes... it's supose to bring 2 people together as 1.

Originally posted by masterp
How is the act of betrayal is narrated in the Bible? the devil, in the form of a serpent, gave an apple from the tree to Eve, which persuaded Adam to try it. That is a clear metaphor for sex! It is always the woman (Eve) that seduces the man (Adam). Eve seduced Adam with her looks to have sex, and thus they discovered knowledge of good and bad and hence kicked out of paradise.

Crazyness. You need to read and understand the bible BEFORE making such crazy claims. If you'd like, I'd be glad to read and post with you on the subject of adam and eve, the exodus and both the pleasures of sex and sinful sex.

I bet we can come up with what ever we want and find some sort of backing in the word of god. I mean why not pull John 11:35 .. Jesus wept ... and lets say ... Revelation .... one where it is talking about the beasts that willcome in the last days. And say Jesus was scared of the beasts.... There we go .. now we have a god that is afraid .. it says it in the bible .... Jesus Wept ...because of the beasts ... so what it is alittle out of context ... It says it don't it ?????????

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
I bet we can come up with what ever we want and find some sort of backing in the word of god. I mean why not pull John 11:35 .. Jesus wept ... and lets say ... Revelation .... one where it is talking about the beasts that willcome in the last days. And say Jesus was scared of the beasts.... There we go .. now we have a god that is afraid .. it says it in the bible .... Jesus Wept ...because of the beasts ... so what it is alittle out of context ... It says it don't it ?????????

Ok.
Let's give an example here.
In one equation X=12
Several pages later X=72

In this example, we'd have just pulled a piece of information from the algebra text book and started complaining that it don't make sense. Well go figure, someone didn't READ THE BOOK.

You don't just grab some chapter somewhere and start tossing around your ideas like your have some clue. Let's take your example John 11:35 .. Jesus wept.

Why was this actualy written about? About Lazarus dieing and being brought back from the dead. Jesus, being a compassionate and loving man would cry.

Now you tried to couple that verse with something in Rev about beasts? This shows only how truely uncapable you are of understanding, much less making such claims.

Study, learn and speak intelligently so we can have a real discussion. In the mean time - don't harm yourself or others.

One more thing - 2 Peter 3:16 talks about those that are ignorant and unstable - people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own distruction.


Edited to add a side note. The posts I've written here are for the benefit of others who read this thread and may not already know that the paraphrasing and claims made by the poster are completely inaccurate. I have no desire to argue with or try and reason with the origonal poster.





[edit on 6-21-2006 by AngelaLadyS]

Institutions again in their best of brainwashing. Sex is evil !!

Any animal has a natural need to have sex. You can come up with 2315847894 science studies and theories, this one you cannot decline; if you dont want to have sex something is wrong with you period. Ok, you may have a time where you are not in the mood, but sooner or later, you will want to. Why ? Its a natural thing! Some animals even do thousands of miles in order to reproduce.

Its actually funny you bring science into this, since it was recently discovered that most animals have sex relations with several partners (yes infidelity is around even in the animal kingdom). Yeah i know, we are humans not animals, even tho - and sorry if i am hurting someone beliefs here - making sex just for the pleasure of it (making it with someone you dont love) isnt wrong. Its simply natural.

AngelaLadyS, we are all here to discuss. None of us need a lecture, anyone can verify the claims for themselves. Please try to discuss these things with your fellow posters.

um overpopulation? sex has got ramped in the world today and as a result way too many people. the result of that? nastyness. diseases. kids having kids. almost every problem we face today is a result of too many people. our creator knew this and that is why love and sex are combined in his plan.

Originally posted by masterp
Have you ever wondered why sex is a sin for Christianity? The christian view is that any form of sex not for reproduction under marriage is a sin

Which sect of Christianity are you referring to?

King James Version
Hebrews 13: 4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Sex in your own marriage is fine. Sex outside of marriage is judged by God. I really don’t see a problem.

Originally posted by MikePhil
Its actually funny you bring science into this, since it was recently discovered that most animals have sex relations with several partners (yes infidelity is around even in the animal kingdom). Yeah i know, we are humans not animals, even tho - and sorry if i am hurting someone beliefs here - making sex just for the pleasure of it (making it with someone you dont love) isnt wrong. Its simply natural.

Most animals don’t have emotional ties with their mates. Most animals are capable of taking care of themselves shortly after weaning. Most animals are driven to procreate. We are different. We are one of the few species of animals that have sex simply for pleasure. However, the consequences of that act can be an emotional and/or financial tie for the next eighteen years.

Yes, sex is natural. It is also natural for a dog to defecate on your front lawn. I would not suggest that you try it.

If sex weren't somehow seen as taboo in the christian religion, then answer me this:

Why the insistence that Jesus was born of a virgin--against God's law and science (as I posted elsewhere today on ATS)--with the understanding that made Him 'without sin?'

Whyare the clergy (mainly RCC) encouraged or commanded to be celibate? Especially when the exact opposite is true in Judaism--one of their duties is to get married and have at least one kid?

And Nygdan, about the Hebrew attitude toward sex--it is only adultery and bestiality that they so abhor--sex within marriage (their way, not ours, which doesn't even require an official unless civil law says so) is considered normal and good and recommended in all normal situations.

A woman gives to her husband at her will, not his--he doesn't ask or take it upon himself to decide when--it is traditionally the woman's perogative, all the way!

AngelaLadyS--just because you don't see what masterp is seeing in the stories in Genesis doesn't mean that you are more learned or wise than he....perhaps we can all learn from each other that which we don't yet detect--the bible has more than just one layer and I do believe it might go on forever if one truly loved to dig into it's study...

From Genesis 2nd chapter until the NT and skipping to Revelation--the allegorical theme in the bible is about the love between husband and wife as it relates to God and the soul...there is much about sex in the bible, and its not at all wrong or dirty, it seems, until you get to the NT.

That's when it starts to be suspect, IMO. There is only one way to understand love in the purest sense, and that is when you find a soulmate and guard them like the apple of your eye--and love is the only way to know God.

I agree with masterp totally because I have known for some time that it is detrimental to view this lesson from the NT western christian POV--from direct experience that made it obvious!

God didn't make the world in vain--it is not going to blow up or be destroyed in any way--ever. It will stand. God made it for people to live on and populate and the christian ideas don't reflect that. Read the OT and take it to heart, and that is how you might see what I mean. You can't populate if you don't have sex with your beloved and it is very important as far as raising kids goes--if you read the bible at all, that is. If you don't, no problem. But don't let it skew a natural and God-given attitude about procreation into something related to 'sin.'

Lust is sex with greed--like a poster already said--but greed sours anything, so it is the greed that is wrong (selfishness and wanting more than you require) not the sex!!

Perhaps it is the 'greed' idea that lies at the root of the conspiracy--on the part of those who set it up that way!?!?

Originally posted by Funkydung
um overpopulation? sex has got ramped in the world today and as a result way too many people. the result of that? nastyness. diseases. kids having kids. almost every problem we face today is a result of too many people. our creator knew this and that is why love and sex are combined in his plan.

I was thinking along the same lines on this issue...

Rather than just propogate our species without consideration and forethought - why not lay down some ground rules?

Granted - it's written somewhat childishly and in metaphor - but then again, you have to break through somehow. People today still don't "get" the concept of planned families. It's just a shame their children have to suffer for their parent's ignorance and/or arrogance on the subject.

For those of you who think marriage had anything to do with love when it was established, think again. Marriage was a social instituion, a business arrangement usually between families to secure inheritance, property and breeding rights, and insure the family name. Love had nothing to do with it. In fact, until relatively recently in human history, the person you married was not necessarily someone you loved, but someone who was chosen by your parents. In fact, in many societies, it was common for people, both men and women, to marry a person for social reasons, yet have affairs with someone they loved.

So when Christians go on about "god" only sanctioning sex in marriage because love is involved, I laugh. They obviously know nothing about marriage's history. In fact, marriage was more an animal act than you think. In the wild, animals choose mates not for love, but for their breeding fitness, the size of their territories, ect. Not so different from arranged marriage, where the mate is chosen for their bloodline, family, wealth, ect. And until the modern era, people married whoever their parents picked for them. In many cases, people who were amrried were having sex with someone they did not love or did not choose to love. It is in a sense, legal prostitution. And of course, marriage also gratified base needs. Greed, pride, envy, and lust are all deadly sins, and are the basis of plenty of marriages.

So when two unmarried people love each other and have sex, then that should be better in gods eyes than two people who dont love each other but marry for money and family pride. However, its not the case in Christianity. Another thing about the religon that makes no sense.

And besides, not everyone in life loves one single person. Some people feel real love for more than one person. Its possible to love more than one person. Some people think you can only love one person. But this is a notion born on selfishness and possesiveness. Love isnt a tap that only flows one way.

I do see the sex conspiracy in religon. However, i will venture to say it is a conspiracy to control FEMALE sexuality. If you study the Bible, Koran, and manuy other holy texts, youll find that the evil factor is focused on women and sex. In the Bible, we see men having mutilple wives and concubines, and this is acceptable, as is the case in Islam. However, should a woman have sex with anyone else, it is often a death sentance. This is mainly a feature in the middle eastern religons, but some far eastern ones as well. Even in the bible, we see men being told to enjoy sex with their wives and their female servants and such. Nothing about women enjoying it.

Christianity and Islam, in their attitudes towards sex, are all about the supression of the female sexuality and desires of women, while men are alot more free to pursue their own desires. The only time a man really is in trouble from having sex is if he shags another man's wife. If he rapes an unmarried virgin, he has to pay her old man some money for "damaged goods".

Mrriage in the biblical and Koranic sense pretty much boils down to women being property, sexual objects, and tools of breeding to carry on a mans desire to satisfy his ego by producing heirs. it has nothing to do with mutual love.



[edit on 22-6-2006 by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Go back several thousand years to what Christianity was replacing; the babylonian mystery religions, egyptian cults, Nature based pagan beliefs, Etc. Most of these religions Sex was a intregral part.
Prostitutes were once holy members of the religions, sex was a ritualistic pleasure. Men had sex with these women to become one with Nature, Woman was on the same cycle as the Moon. From Her came Life itself, just like Mother earth.

Then came Paul, who wrote most of the new testament. Christ seems non plussed about sex, Paul goes off the Deep end regarding women. Either he is seriously mysogenistic, or demented. From this comes the oppression and suppression that evolves into the Witch burnings of the Middle ages.

Sex used to be a sacred act, the Maypole celebration is directly descended from pagan sexual celebrations. Easter eggs are celebrating fertility, the harvest moon celebration was sexual, all types of rituals we perform today come from thousands of years ago, and were sexual in Nature.

We lost ourselves along the way, and Woman has become secondary. One day we find ourselves back on the true path.

Originally posted by toolman

Go back several thousand years to what Christianity was replacing; the babylonian mystery religions, egyptian cults, Nature based pagan beliefs, Etc. Most of these religions Sex was a intregral part.
Prostitutes were once holy members of the religions, sex was a ritualistic pleasure. Men had sex with these women to become one with Nature, Woman was on the same cycle as the Moon. From Her came Life itself, just like Mother earth.

Then came Paul, who wrote most of the new testament. Christ seems non plussed about sex, Paul goes off the Deep end regarding women. Either he is seriously mysogenistic, or demented. From this comes the oppression and suppression that evolves into the Witch burnings of the Middle ages.

Sex used to be a sacred act, the Maypole celebration is directly descended from pagan sexual celebrations. Easter eggs are celebrating fertility, the harvest moon celebration was sexual, all types of rituals we perform today come from thousands of years ago, and were sexual in Nature.

We lost ourselves along the way, and Woman has become secondary. One day we find ourselves back on the true path.

I was about to write something along those exact lines. Early Christians feared that if we had sex just to have sex we would eventually fall back into 'pagan' (as in early religious) ways. Christianity is a patriarchal institutions which rose to the power it has today by forcing early polytheistic religions (which usually worshipped godesses) out of the picture and calling them evil. Women were revered as practically gods because only gods and women can create life.

And your point on prostitutes was spot on. What we could call a prostitute used to be a priestess who never prayed or performed religious ceremonies, or a normal woman (they had to go at least once in their lives). She was given a coin (which went into the temples funds) and she would give men the experience of being one with something that can create life. Any children were raised by the temple as monks. If anyone wants information they should research temple prostitution or one of the old love godesses (astarte or belili for example)

[edit on 22/6/06 by JackofBlades]

[edit on 22/6/06 by JackofBlades]

Skadi has a point about the roots of marriage, certainly.

Ancient people (and most people in non-developed society today) viewed marriage as an economic relationship---for the betterment of EVERYONE involved; husband, wife, and children as well.

From an anthropological stance, I could say that in the developed West, where marriage is less of an economic bond, divorce rates are many times higher.

Maybe the best way to "preserve marriage" in developed societies is to make sure it serves the economic interests of all parties---like it does in the socially stabe, traditional societies.

Non-industrial societies are far less sexualized as well. Many cultures, viewing the mating patterns of livestock, believed that humans should only mate during certain seasons. Every heard of "June is the month for weddings?"

US/UK society became really sexualized during the enlightenment, with the rise of urban neighborhoods, with a population that didn't do physical work for a living, (clerks, brokers) and thus had un-used emotional energy.


Now, from a spiritual standpoint.

"Modern people" are horrified by the stodgy, restrictive rules of Christianity.

But, in America, are you rebelling by having sex? Hardly. I'd say you are conforming. Every commercial, every magazine, every movie tells you that sex = success.

In western culture, to be a true rebel, you'd have to do the opposite of the status quo, the opposite of what the people around you do without thinking about their lives . . .

. . . to be a rebel, the most outrageous thing you could ever do would be to willingly DO WITHOUT sex !

Because the TV, the radio, all your music and magazines, all the pornsites on the internet, all of those voices are telling you to copulate with the most beautiful person or object you can find.

So, someone who decides to NOT participate is some kind of subversive.

Now, imagine the cultural rebellion of a person who WILLINGLY decides not to have sex for the rest of their life! Who promises to spend all their time thinking about GOD instead of thinking about SEX.

Someone who is so rebellious that they are trying to tell you that you've made SEX into your GOD. That your society is into "fertility worship" every bit as much as the ancients ever were.

The forces of conformity in our society would brand such rebels as dangerous, sick, and oppressive in their vision of "morality." As trying to "force their view of sex" on everyone else, simply because they refuse to participate in sex with no object other than to conform. . . .

now go back to the top, and reread this thread; and you'll begin to wonder who the TRUE REBELS really are. . .


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