PERFECTION

is there such thing as perfection, or are we all just jerking each other around with such a pointless idea of what should be. i say just be. being what you are is perfection, in that you are being what you are in the most perfect way possible in each moment. can you go back and change any shyte you've done in the past? no, so since it could only happen once, then it had to have been perfect. else the universe would collapse on it self.... well maybe that idea's a little far fetched, but i hope you all know what i mean.

here's an example:

is the ocean perfect? or how about dirt? rocks anyone?

think about it.

Originally posted by deafence#
being what you are is perfection, in that you are being what you are in the most perfect way possible in each moment.

I agree completely with that statement. Chasing the "image" of perfection is insane, nearly all the time perfection is present.

Perfection is all in the eye of the beholder. Can everybody view something with the same perspective? Or does how we grew up and where we grew up change how we view things?

I feel there should be no such word as perfection. Perfect means flawless and we live in a flawed world.

Fortunately though it's all in how we look at the things around us. In all truthfulness, when I see something that can possibly be perceived by many as perfect, I find that it's more flawed the closer I look..almost as though I'm searching for those flaws and when I find something most can view as flawed I search for the perfection in it..weird I know. I don't really understand it myself??

And then there are days/moods where everything around me can be seen perfect, the sun, the moon, the ocean..people and vice verse. But if we lived in a world of true perfection, then there would be no judgements, no mistakes and everyone would see the same as everyone else. We would lose character and values...heck we would lose our identities and that would be boooring...

I think I like my imperfect world better then the idea of a perfect one

no thing can be perfect, imperfect things are needed to find perfect things, and if you change the use/need for that thing then it may be no longer perfect, perfection is

thats my opinion, perfect is

The ocean gets perfect sometimes.

Perfection is like Enlightenment....always persued, but never attained.... (wow, sounds like a frickin' fortune cookie....)

well what is perfection really? is it really what we think or should we stop making words for things we dont understand? perfection is all around us, everything in nature is, humans and society are imperfect because we cant see what we had and define perfect in a flawed manner, we strive for it by how its defined and its the opposite of what perfection actually is.

perfect, it really means in harmony, free, open to change, accepting how things are without trying to avoid what will come, it doesnt actually mean without flaws, flaws are not imperfection, they just are.

whether bad, good or neutral, they exist to balance everything... theres life then death, theres stormy weather then calm, day then night, etc.

if you look around you, look past everyday stresses, get out into nature, then you can see it. dont go seeking it because its there already and you'll miss it.

but thats just my idea on this

True perfection cannot exist without imperfection. As to be perfect, defines an orientation, which takes all things into consideration.

As a result, the trully perfect reality is one in which imprefections exist.

Any thoughts?



[Edited on 22-10-2003 by Toltec]

yes toltec, i think i'm getting what you are saying. you have to have one to have the other. for instance; cold/hot, hate/love, perfection/imperfection...

though don't these all depend on a certain circumstance? for instance, you can have hot and cold water, but it still is just water under two different circumstances.

kinda gets me back to thinking about how we split our oneness into this duality to experience anything and everything. if there was only just one thing for everything, you couldnt define it, because you have nothing to compare it to, it would all be the same thing. thus, that would be an ultimate reality. we are all one, though we separate everything so that it may be experienced. there is no need for change when you are everything. how boring is that? nice theory though eh?

As in the Duality of body and soul referring to another state of existence in which the capacity to perceive and be aware for both is no longer dualized?

Perhaps in the context of the present not just being acknowledged in awareness. As being, only the here and now, but as well, in respect to it also being a surface in regards to reality as a whole?

Meditation in this context being a means to become oriented and aware of what in us is infinite?

Pretty certain it would not be boring but always keep in mind God is always more.

Any thoughts?

[Edited on 24-10-2003 by Toltec]

Everyone has differing perspectives and views. I don't think we can define perfection with everyone having their own concept of it. The more we pursure perfection, theh more flaws we'll see.

I don't think anything physical is perfect, but maybe ideas? Howabout a circle, or a sphere?

I have to disagree with the ocean being perfect. The ocean is one of the most chaotic things known to man. It never stays still, it's always crashing and banging and swooshing and spraying and.....

Water is a complex element. If we took a small bowl of perfectly still water, and added one drop of water to it, it would be impossible to describe or calculate the osccilations and vibrations of the water caused by the droplet , even if we set up a SETI system to do it!

Originally posted by Saucerat

I have to disagree with the ocean being perfect. The ocean is one of the most chaotic things known to man. It never stays still, it's always crashing and banging and swooshing and spraying and.....

Water is a complex element. If we took a small bowl of perfectly still water, and added one drop of water to it, it would be impossible to describe or calculate the osccilations and vibrations of the water caused by the droplet , even if we set up a SETI system to do it!

thats why its perfect, did you not understand what has been said in the last few posts?

Perhaps the properties that water holds is perfect, and I agree, it is. I just don't think that the ocean is perfect. I mean, look at it, it's polluted!

Then again there is the perfect storm

As defined the limit of human aspiration can be understood as just that, as a condition, which is seen as a goal whose orientation can be understood from the context of creation or destruction.

While one cannot go back in time and change something, one can use that experience to improve upon similar situations in either the present or the future. To say then that a mistake was not a perfect lesson (for example pollution). Or a goal achieved, a perfect example of what one did correct, is something to be taken into consideration.

Any thoughts?

and the whole is perfect moving with symetry that most cannot percieve...

One way of looking at this is that man seems to be striving towards maintaining a state of imperfection, this in most areas of endeavors, with exception of sports and other activities related to physical endeavors.

This despite the fact that what is apparent, as for instance cited in the example of pollution (the perfect lesson).

In regards to the matter of spiritualism and religion this as well seems a factor.


Any thoughts?

maintenance of imperfection that is...
i would have to say that it is profitable for a few people who noone knows but does the same things as everyone else to impose on the masses/sheeple/80% an idea of imperfection...
which is why there will never be peace till the father and his great son returns, and we all get a piece, the question then is what piece does one deserve for their works?...

Jesus died for the sins of those who accept him as God and in the end days punishes those who deny him as God, for the sake of those who accepted him. But what if those who deny Jesus as God do so, because of the sins of those who accepted him?

Granted, these are sins, which Jesus has forgiven, but does that really constitute justification for the sin with respect to when it was committed?? Especially given the fact that awareness exists in regards to being forgiven by Jesus of any sin committed in a lifetime?

To put it another way, if a sin is committed. knowing with respect to the sinner, that if he commits the sin. He will be forgiven because he accepts Jesus as his savior, is that then a sin forgiven by Jesus?

You cannot justify a sin committed solely on the basis that Jesus died for it and only Jesus can declare a sin forgivable, with respect to the fact that the sinner committed the sin, considering that it is a sin known by Jesus at the time of his death and therefore forgiven.


To claim then that a person who denies Jesus as God because of the sins of those who accept him, can be punished for there denial sounds very wrong.

Furthermore, to take a religion whose spiritual elements are akin in every way to alternative systems of belief and then remove to those elements (with respect to how the masses are educated in the system of belief leaving only the element of salivation through acceptance of Jesus as God), speaks not only of an inherent hypocrisy with respect to how those other beliefs are often defined. But also lends to the development of cultures (all cultures) which respond to sin as relevant only to the extent one can be forgiven


This being the case, the act of sinning can be two-fold, as not only is the sin being committed. But also, conscious as well as unconscious consideration is given to being forgiven, prior to committing the act.

This presented in relation to your question Bigsage.

While perfection can be a relative concept realistic goals in relation to what is known, in respect to limitations are not.


Any thoughts?

The concept of perfection as I see it is attaining or being in a state of that which is intended. For something to "be" perfect it has to be judged or defined by external forces or consciousness. I can create a geometric shape and call it perfect. My circle is perfect because it is EXACTLY as I intended it to be and obeys the laws of geometry in which all the points of the circle are equidistant from the center. If my square has unequal sides, it is no longer "perfect" by the definintion of a square. It may be perfect though as a rectangle if that is what I intend it to be.
Perfection is a relative word and only has meaning when given reference to something by something else (usually conscious energy).

This world is often called "imperfect". But through God's eyes (so to speak) it may be exactly as he intended it to be and hence, perfect.

I believe we will find out soon enough.

~Jammer