PERFECTION

jesus did not die for "our" sins....
this is propaganda by those elite in office...
hesus was persecuted so that men can recgonize what sin is, very big difference, big enough to be the tide of a battle if you know what i mean...

the perfect man is one who knows he is imperfect and that within the real of all that is is perfection...

Originally posted by bigsage
jesus did not die for "our" sins....
this is propaganda by those elite in office...
hesus was persecuted so that men can recgonize what sin is, very big difference, big enough to be the tide of a battle if you know what i mean...

the perfect man is one who knows he is imperfect and that within the real of all that is is perfection...

This is an excellent thread. One of the best I've read.

I apologize but I must address the text above. Typically you CAPITALIZE Proper nouns 'jesus' and verify spelling 'hesus'. Are you not insulted when someone takes not enough time or conscious thought to check the spelling of your name? Through greater order we can move forward. Communication is one of them (e.g. Grammer, the internet) I say this without disrespect as I do not know your prior experiences, and I forgive any grievance I may have felt in reading your post for both you (if you did intend the lack of acknowledgement) and myself (if I am wrong by feeling through assumption that you may have intended it). This is what Christ taught us to do. Love one another as well as ourselves through acceptance and forgiveness. Accept everyone, everything just as it is while at the same time moving forward through increased awareness on ALL levels. You could put this in terms of one of the foundations of experience: Sacred Geometry.

We know our physical experience involves four dimensions: x,y & z spatial dimensions and time. But time is also a spatial dimension. Look at Toltec's Avatar.... notice how the small dots are moving in the same pattern. They've all been in the same place, just at different times (adding the arms connecting the dots leads to the illusion that these points are the same ones moving through time. But we know that they are not, they are an illusion. The dots are generated from non-conscious energy that have the same meaning but only exist once and for a very short time period.

In addition to the first four dimensions we also have a fifth: consciousness. Our awareness of the events of our existence adds a dimension to the whole. I hope that no one here denies that they are a conscious sentient being (note - if you are not please acknowledge. The spirit is your essence; it is your makeup in the purest sense. This is yet another dimension above consciousness. Being conscious of your spirit-self is another dimension as it allows you to better understand your place in time and consciousness alone. Beyond that I envision God encircling these lower dimensions.

How is it possible to find something more perfect than a sphere? Move it through time, give it consciousness to know it is experiencing movement through time and then give it acknowledgement that it's essence is tied to all things, but also separate. Now give those conscious beings ability to travel across the lower dimensions of separateness (i.e. lower 6) to gain experience and increase conscious awareness. How does this relate back to Christ dying for our sins. By giving himself to the whole he becomes what his experience embodies including sin (his persecusion and torture). It is conceivable to be the ultimate sacrifice. Do you know of anyone else who gives everything to the whole purely for the sake of the whole? I only know of Christ doing that. But knowing about it is not the same as believing in it. We define ourselves most strongly by our actions because they most directly affect the outcome of our future.

If Christ says he came to offer ascension for ALL conscious beings at our level of experience then we have to believe that to make it our experience. By disbelief we sever our connection to that experience. To experience your belief or disbelief however will be most effective though action (e.g. moving through space and time in a conscious manner).

So, in many ways your beliefs (which are your actions MORE than your words) define your reality. I choose to believe in Jesus as the Christed One. By believing that he died for my misgivings and putting my faith in the rest of what he says (in terms of directions for action) I can move closer to Christ's level of awareness in less time. Faith and trust is a truth that when put in to action actualizes in experience. So openness to this is essential for you to experience it.

Are you open or closed most of the time?

This has gotten to be a long post, my apologies.

God Bless all of you (whether you accept Love or not)

~Jammer

the creator... well of this thread anyways (me), am very pleased with how, it's turning out. the reason why i brought up the topic was just to make sure we all know what direction we have our heads screwed on, by talking about it. and it seems that it's done just that. we've produced a mixture of beliefs, with agreements and disagreements, but with acceptance. and that's what it's all about. choosing what works for you, and accepting what others think, regardless of whether they disagree with you or not. in a lot of aspects if you think about it, we shape our beliefs by weighing them with others, from others. in my mind, we are doing this in the most perfect way possible. but that's just me.

Bigsage you misunderstood me, am simply presenting the matter from the context of a common response, with respect to why Jesus died and then extrapolating a conclusion not in keeping with the viability of the initial premises (the common response) in regards to
what is often suggested.

If anything a fallacy is identified.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by jammerman

This is an excellent thread. One of the best I've read.

I apologize but I must address the text above. Typically you CAPITALIZE Proper nouns 'jesus' and verify spelling 'hesus'. Are you not insulted when someone takes not enough time or conscious thought to check the spelling of your name? Through greater order we can move forward. Communication is one of them (e.g. Grammer, the internet) I say this without disrespect as I do not know your prior experiences, and I forgive any grievance I may have felt in reading your post for both you (if you did intend the lack of acknowledgement) and myself (if I am wrong by feeling through assumption that you may have intended it). This is what Christ taught us to do. Love one another as well as ourselves through acceptance and forgiveness. Accept everyone, everything just as it is while at the same time moving forward through increased awareness on ALL levels. You could put this in terms of one of the foundations of experience: Sacred Geometry.

We know our physical experience involves four dimensions: x,y & z spatial dimensions and time. But time is also a spatial dimension. Look at Toltec's Avatar.... notice how the small dots are moving in the same pattern. They've all been in the same place, just at different times (adding the arms connecting the dots leads to the illusion that these points are the same ones moving through time. But we know that they are not, they are an illusion. The dots are generated from non-conscious energy that have the same meaning but only exist once and for a very short time period.

In addition to the first four dimensions we also have a fifth: consciousness. Our awareness of the events of our existence adds a dimension to the whole. I hope that no one here denies that they are a conscious sentient being (note - if you are not please acknowledge

. The spirit is your essence; it is your makeup in the purest sense. This is yet another dimension above consciousness. Being conscious of your spirit-self is another dimension as it allows you to better understand your place in time and consciousness alone. Beyond that I envision God encircling these lower dimensions.

How is it possible to find something more perfect than a sphere? Move it through time, give it consciousness to know it is experiencing movement through time and then give it acknowledgement that it's essence is tied to all things, but also separate. Now give those conscious beings ability to travel across the lower dimensions of separateness (i.e. lower 6) to gain experience and increase conscious awareness. How does this relate back to Christ dying for our sins. By giving himself to the whole he becomes what his experience embodies including sin (his persecusion and torture). It is conceivable to be the ultimate sacrifice. Do you know of anyone else who gives everything to the whole purely for the sake of the whole? I only know of Christ doing that. But knowing about it is not the same as believing in it. We define ourselves most strongly by our actions because they most directly affect the outcome of our future.

If Christ says he came to offer ascension for ALL conscious beings at our level of experience then we have to believe that to make it our experience. By disbelief we sever our connection to that experience. To experience your belief or disbelief however will be most effective though action (e.g. moving through space and time in a conscious manner).

So, in many ways your beliefs (which are your actions MORE than your words) define your reality.
~Jammer

let's jam, man. you're one of the few. let's wake these other us up. what a great post. you're analogy of dimensions is great.
Sacred Geometry, folks. learn it. be a-mazed.

oh, yeah. this thread is about perfection.
alphanumerics are the assigning of a number to each letter of the alphabet as such; a=1, B=2, c=3, etc.
so then, HEXanumerics are a=6, b=12, c=18, etc.
PERFECTION is completeness. perfection means there is no longer a possible improvement.
perfection=111 in alphanumerics.
perfection when multiplied by the number of man(6) =666.
111 is a number associated with yahweh. 666 is an unfamiliar number which nobody pays attention to.
WAKE UP! EVERYTHING! is connected. that means language is connected to physics and fatestreams. think about it.
would you want to be perfect?

Billybob with respect to interconnectedness one can sugest, that perfection is truly in the eyes of the beholder.

In respect to God, which can exist outside as well as inside creation, the term itself very likely would not apply (from the context of being definitive of).

Meaning, that God is more perfect that we can imagine within the context of any way we define or ever imagine the meaning of the word to be.

As far as my avatar for me it is a symbol of the human condition, which can be understood as perfect but never more.

Any thoughts?

the nature of the word perfection is that a STATE has been achieved. this implies that no more evolution, learning, journeying, discovering, questing, elation, disappointment, or anyTHING will ever be experienced. no change. ever. perfect?

True perfection cannot exist without imperfection. As to be perfect, defines an orientation, which takes all things into consideration.

I understand where you are comming from Billybob but were working from the perspective of alternative definitions.

Note the first posts which asks if a rock is perfect

Originally posted by Toltec

True perfection cannot exist without imperfection. As to be perfect, defines an orientation, which takes all things into consideration.

I understand where you are comming from Billybob but were working from the perspective of alternative definitions.

Note the first posts which asks if a rock is perfect

the ALPHA perfection, 111, represents the trinity. reduced, 1+1+1=3.
the HEX perfection, 666, represents the number of man. 6+6+6=18, 8+1=9. 9 is the number of completion.
perfect ion. complete ion. confuse ion.

Perfection is an ideal to strive towards. It is the purpose of creation, that which we strive for, the reason for existance. Perfection exists because there is imperfection which it can be displayed against. You will not notice or become interested in that which does not appear to exist (unless you become aware of it somehow).

Billybob would further add that from the perspective of the bible God never called man perfect only good. From a relativistic standpoint Gods idea of good could be understood as mans idea of perfect, as is often expressed with regards to Adam and Eve.

It really is a relativistic term and in respects to alternative systems of belief which express greater spirituality than that of Christianity, Islam and Judaism (despite the fact they are as well very similar in that respect), perfection as a relativistic term is cleary apparent.

Any thoughts?