Prevailing Left blowing wind on ATS (Op/Ed)

What many on the right fail to recognize, or won't accept or in some cases do not know is that despite the blaterings of such idiots as Mr. Ann Coulter in calling us godless, much of modern American liberalism has deep roots in evangelic Christianity, and as such is centered in the compassionate Christianity that gave rise to such things as the anti slavery, womans sufferage and tolerance movements, the push for public education and the like that grew out of 19th century Christian social activism. The Civil rights movement has its roots there as well. Far from being anti-christian or anti religious, we respect religion deeply as a rule, to the point of wanting to keep it a profoundly private matter, even more private than sex, because with sex, unless you are masturbating, there is always another, when you commune with God, it is between you and him alone. No one has the right to dictate your beliefs or feelings in that matter, no one and the so called push to remove God from schools, from our prespective is rather the preventing of any endorsements of a religion by those in authority over our children, sparing them the experince of somebody dictating how they think they should pray or worship. It is a private matter.

Awesome words grover!

You have voted grover for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

[edit on 11-6-2006 by Jamuhn]

You have voted grover for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

had to give you that after I read the school prayer comment...thank you

ps= first time since I joined that I used all my votes per month...amazing.

[edit on 11-6-2006 by grimreaper797]

Originally posted by grover
What many on the right fail to recognize, or won't accept or in some cases do not know is that despite the blaterings of such idiots as Mr. Ann Coulter in calling us godless, much of modern American liberalism has deep roots in evangelic Christianity, and as such is centered in the compassionate Christianity that gave rise to such things as the anti slavery, womans sufferage and tolerance movements, the push for public education and the like that grew out of 19th century Christian social activism.

..sparing them the experince of somebody dictating how they think they should pray or worship. It is a private matter.

Good. Now if we can get them to stop forcing their sexual mores down our children's throats in elementary school, we can say there is real progress.

And it is not a "failing of the right" to recognize anything. I don't care which philosophy you endorse; people are people. Just because I disagree with you on how to spend money doesn't make me cold-hearted, nor does it make you a saint. I want a decent, caring society at least as much as you do, probably more.

This Administration's Dept of Education is cooperating with the UNESCO Global curriculum. Maybe you ought to see how that curriculum is affecting health and social studies textbooks your children bring home from school. They have an agenda you know. Being "values free," what are your kids' textbooks teaching YOUR kids?

Mine are long since grown and gone; but what do your kids' textbooks' INDEX in the back, show you your children are being taught about socialization? Okay, here's Houghton Mifflin's 6th grade social studies text. I think there's a lot missing from what we had to learn.

www.eduplace.com.../ss/hmss05/books_ca/bka/bibliography/bka_u1.thtml

Originally posted by semperfortis
Borg mentioned me doing an OP/ED on the uselessness of actually voting and I have started it, but I really enjoy your two view points.

Something to think about.

Semper

TheBorg likes to hear that. He anxiously awaits the chance to assimilate others.

OKok... In all seriosuness, I'm really looking forward to this. Lemme know when ya post it. I'll definitely either respond to it in thread, or write an Op/Ed answer of my own. prolly the latter. Be prepared for a lengthy debate.

TheBorg

Originally posted by jsobecky

Good. Now if we can get them to stop forcing their sexual mores down our children's throats in elementary school, we can say there is real progress.

No one is trying to force their sexual mores down the throats of our children more than the funnymentalists.

Growing up in the south in the 60's, and not being the most macho of men or a jock, but definately not gay either, I witnessed (and experinced) first hand what happens to the child when their peers decide that they are gay and I tell you it is not pretty. Their abuse was relentless but I was lucky, I could have contracted inside myself and become just as narrow minded and bigoted as they were, instead I decided that I would be damned if I was going to be anything like them and evolved into a very tolerant person, which I did my best to pass on to my step-kids.

We liberals know that that it does not matter the gender of whom you love, what is important is that you love, and that the narrow-minded and intolerant policies of the religious right promotes bigotry as opposed to preventing it. We are also pragmatic, we know teenage boys have been doing their best to get into the pants of teenage girls ever since there have been teenage boys and girls, and generally speaking they are successful...it is not only compassionate, but profoundly practical that they know about sex and sexuality, bith control and choices so that we can have knowing, loving adults. God knows I wish we had some realistic talks about sex when I was growing up.

Conservative or Liberal debates are just another misdirection by those who want globalization to control the world. The latest buffunery is to unite Canada, Mexico and the US with no borders and a unique currency. Once in place, this so called North American Alliance would supersede our constitution.

Fight globalization and you fight facism and communism at the same time.

One more thing, don't be fooled by the economic aspects of glabalization. Those who wnat it are not doing it for the welfare of mankind. Regardless of there fascist or communist beliefs, the sole purpose is to make the powerful more powerful and the greedy more rich.

Originally posted by joshai2334

That's not what's going on with Corporatism. The latest gambit is to create an associated "non-profit" so they can dump their profits into political largesse.
Corporatism is Fascism, as Mussolini said. And stockholders are oblivious; all they care about is the "bottom-line," not ethics or long-term effects. Amoral.

What makes you think corporations should care about anything other than the bottom line? After all they aren't people. If a corporation is a good neighbor in their community or builds new parks/playgrounds & such it is only because of the desires of the stockholders of that corporation. If the corporation is a bad neighbor, or does things counter-productive to their community, it is again the stockholders who are responsible. To ascribe morality to what is only a legal entity is ludicrous--It is always the people involved.

The corporatist/synargist movement is behind a great deal of harm that we are experiencing. Why do you rationalize for them.

I have no idea what you mean by "The corporatist/synargist movement." You make it sound almost like a religous movement. Let me repeat, corporations are amoral now, they have always been amoral and they will always be amoral. They cannot be anything else as they are only a legal entity. Stockholders own corporations and stockholders are ordinary people with ordinary concerns and ordinary morals. Corporations are formed for the purposes of the incorporators (consistent with the laws of the state where they are incorporated).

joek I have to tell you this bur facisim and communism are diametrically opposed political worldviews. I have no problem with a commonwealth of nations...I do have a major problem with corporate globalism which is a beast of an entirely different color. As has been noted before Moussilini described facisim as the perfect marriage of corporation and state, and he if anyone should know. But that is a discussion for another thread.

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
ALL THE GOV'Ts in THE ENTIRE World are OUT OF CONTROL!!!!! They have taken too much power and we are a decade away from a global dictatorship.
We always were feudal serfs but the Gov't brainwashed us in public school about our freedoms. Free people don't need a licence to get married, they don't need permission to add a step onto their house, they don't need permission to leave the plantation AKA a passport. The Gov't social workers could never ever come into royalties homes and take away their children even if pure evil was taking place in the household but they'll take your kids away on suspicion without proof. Free people own land and it can never be seized for tax debts.
YOU pay rent via property taxes.
WAKE UP, There are poor slaves, middle class slaves, millionaire slaves but Rockefellar, Rothschild, Warburg, Bronfmans, Sinclairs, Reichmans, Queen Elizabeth & family are the true free people, the rest of us get harvested like chattel.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

[edit on 3-6-2006 by BattleofBatoche]

A very good post BattleofBatoche That's my opinion on the matter as well.
Just look at what's going on in the UK with the I.D. cards! Soon Australia will have them as well. I hope the U.S. doesn't follow in those footsteps.

"That's not an ID card,..."

I have ben coming to this site for 4 years now and a member for 2 and this whole discussion of a leftist trend here seems rather moot....conservatives and right wingers certianly have had a field day here, in fact that is why i joined, to counter the strongly libertiarian/ right wing slant here, really no different than a conservative joining say the media matters forum. The thing is conservatives come here looking for info that will verify for them that liberals are trying to screw up the world and liberals come here looking for info that will verify for them that right wingers are trying to screw up the world. Has there been a leftward shift here? Perhaps, it seemed alot more conservative when i started coming here but then us on the left had been shouted down so much, right after 9/11 and during the lead up to the Iraq invasion, that perhaps we were more than a little cowed. Then as we saw what we consider the depradations of the bush administration, we couldn't hold in our outrage anymore and started speaking out. In other words, it is not that htere are more of us here now or that it is in danger of becoming a leftie organization, its more that we are more vocal now and after years of hearing your own conservative voices, we now seem like alot more.

All that really doesn't matter though. There are certianly valid and noble aspects to a conservative viewpoint as there are certianly valid and noble aspects to liberal viewpoints as well. We are not the demons that the hatemongers like Micheal Savage and Mr. Ann Coulter (she really does have an adams apple ) make us out to be. In all reality if they are the sources of your worldview, I feel sorry for you, there are far more intelligent people out there on the right to listen to than those self absorbed idiots. They do this country no good in spreading their manure of hate around all over the place and they really should be ashamed of themselves.

America's future, indeed the world's future needs to be freed from the duality of liberal/conservative, capitalist/communist, good/evil, black/white. In all reality ou future does not lie with any of those but beyond them, a mental or spiritual place where all the various voices of humanity can he heard and all the great issues affecting us can be discussed and addressed. Idealistic? Of course it is, I make no bones about it, but the issues facing all of humanity are far to grave to be dealt with from one prespective only.

Very well put, very well composed and hard to disagree with.

But You Cowed???/

However just to defend my position, we do not need the Screaming Deans, the Radically disillusioned Gores or the Other Adams apple bearer Clinton.

There. just had to throw that in as well.

I never thought I would do it grover, but I just gave you a wats vote for your comments on this thread. You aren't quite the evil demon I once thought you to be.

Now if I can just get you & Muaddib to be civil to one another......

[edit on 12-6-2006 by Astronomer70]

Thank you both...But as for the screaming dean and deluional Gore comment, I think if you really look into some of the things it was claimed that Gore said I think you will find that he had been roved. As for screaming Dean, scream on, I find bloodless politicians like Hillery boring to tears...give me a character anyday.

I think that when all is said and done, it is our common humanity, not our political or religious prespectives that unites us.

Me an evil demon? hradly. But your comment reminds me, when i was working as a chef, I started dating this waitress, and she told me once that when she first started working with me she thought I was the meanest SOB, but then she got to know me and that i was a teddy bear (I don't know about that but they were her words) so what gives. And I replied, you do what I do for a living and see how friendly you are. A few years later, seperately her and another waitress who always busted my chops for my attitude covered for cooks at different resturants for a week. Neither had ever done it before, and both again seperately came up and apologized to me saying that they would never harrass another cook again in their lives, quote "Thats hard work."

I think you will find and I hope I have made clear, my stance as a liberal comes from a long and well thought out moral position. If someone comes to different conclusions than I do so be it, but just don't demonize or belittle me because I differ.

You demon you Grover...HAHAHAHAHAHA


But seriously, we do differ, but I have found your positions to be very well thought out and even compelling.

Don't stop now, who else can I argue with except Grim, Borg, Oh yea there are a lot out there that argue with me. HMMMMMMM

Might it be my personality?

Of course we differ, i never said we didn't, but despite what the hatemongers would like you to believe, all of us (left and right) want the same things for our families, our loved ones and our country; the only question is how do we get there. You on the right have one set of ideas, and we on the left have another, but like I said all that is really moot, our goals are pretty much the same. We really only come into conflict when one party, in this case the republicans, try for permanant dominance.

And those of us in the middle are left to fend for ourselves. It's hard being the middle guy, heh. Constantly trying, sometimes in vain, to get a compromise of ideas to get things rolling along. Ahh, how I love it so!

TheBorg

ahh...but the guy in the middle also has the wonderful opprotunity to be the bridge to bring both sides together.