Organ Donation

Originally posted by jezebel
I wonder if it would be fair to say that the majority of Southern Baptists in Alabama do not believe in organ donation, but the majority of Southern Baptists wherever Creepy lives do?

not at all....the fair thing to say is that "the majority of the southern baptists that Satyr knows are against organ donation"....another fair statement is that "he is wrong in his assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation"...

ive provided five links from four different sources(including an UrbanLegends link) showing that the southern baptists do support donation,even encourage it...ive asked the southern baptists i know and they ALL are donors...it was not my intent to argue with anyone...the thread is posted under a false premise...i only wanted to point this out

when someone starts a thread it is implied that they have at the very least done some research into the subject....Satyr has not...and he refuses to acknowledge the fact that his assumptions were wrong...he has ignored every post PROVING it...

i ask for any proof at all that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation...and with the "Scholar" tag under his name, you would think that he should be able to show something to support his claims other than:"im from Alabama and know some baptists who are against organ donation

his assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...

I think that you put the whole issue of donation right the way it should be...well stated Alien!

Originally posted by alien
Who cares...its your body, do what you like with it. You shouldn't be hassled because you choose to be an organ donor...nor should anyone call you selfish if you don't...

...for those who think its selfish to 'hoard your organs'...put your money where your mouth is, kill yourself now and donate all your organs to those who need them while they are still young and fresh...why wait till you are older and the organs are worn out a little...

...seems stupid doesn't it...just as stupid as telling someone they are selfish for not doing it...but wait, you need them right now...still selfish, by that train of thought, putting your own need (be they physical or spiritual) above the needs of others...

You miss the entire point. This is donating something you don't need anymore anyway, because YOU'RE DEAD!!! It's not as if your family wants to keep your body in the freezer and save those parts for themselves. Nope. Most of you will rot in a box in the ground. Not donating (after death) can't be seen as anything but selfishness, or if it's for religious reasons, ignorance.

Originally posted by Creepy

Originally posted by jezebel
I wonder if it would be fair to say that the majority of Southern Baptists in Alabama do not believe in organ donation, but the majority of Southern Baptists wherever Creepy lives do?

not at all....the fair thing to say is that "the majority of the southern baptists that Satyr knows are against organ donation"....another fair statement is that "he is wrong in his assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation"...

ive provided five links from four different sources(including an UrbanLegends link) showing that the southern baptists do support donation,even encourage it...ive asked the southern baptists i know and they ALL are donors...it was not my intent to argue with anyone...the thread is posted under a false premise...i only wanted to point this out

when someone starts a thread it is implied that they have at the very least done some research into the subject....Satyr has not...and he refuses to acknowledge the fact that his assumptions were wrong...he has ignored every post PROVING it...

i ask for any proof at all that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation...and with the "Scholar" tag under his name, you would think that he should be able to show something to support his claims other than:"im from Alabama and know some baptists who are against organ donation"

his assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...

You're still the only one claiming I am wrong, due to your extensive research of the entire southern population. What state are you in, anyway? They do differ from state to state, and also church to church. You sure are an arrogant #. You must be Baptist, eh?

What would you like me to do? Drive back to Alabama, take a video camera onto the streets and randomly ask people, then send you the video?

These are the same people who invented the KKK, and hate gays enough to boycott Disney just because they employ gays. I'm sure they have some kind of statement saying that's not true too.

Fear and hate disguised as love and god, eh?

Originally posted by Satyr
You miss the entire point. This is donating something you don't need anymore anyway, because YOU'RE DEAD!!! It's not as if your family wants to keep your body in the freezer and save those parts for themselves. Nope. Most of you will rot in a box in the ground. Not donating (after death) can't be seen as anything but selfishness, or if it's for religious reasons, ignorance.

No...YOU'VE missed my entire point.

That persons body is THEIRS...as such you have NO say in what they choose to do with it....furthermore, you have NO right to berate them or judge them for which choice they make.


Peace,
ALIEN

You're still the only one claiming I am wrong, due to your extensive research of the entire southern population.

What state are you in, anyway? They do differ from state to state, and also church to church. You sure are an arrogant #. You must be Baptist, eh?

What would you like me to do? Drive back to Alabama, take a video camera onto the streets and randomly ask people, then send you the video?

These are the same people who invented the KKK, and hate gays enough to boycott Disney just because they employ gays. I'm sure they have some kind of statement saying that's not true too.
Fear and hate disguised as love and god, eh?

not the kind of response id expect from a "Scholar"

Originally posted by alien

Originally posted by Satyr
You miss the entire point. This is donating something you don't need anymore anyway, because YOU'RE DEAD!!! It's not as if your family wants to keep your body in the freezer and save those parts for themselves. Nope. Most of you will rot in a box in the ground. Not donating (after death) can't be seen as anything but selfishness, or if it's for religious reasons, ignorance.

No...YOU'VE missed my entire point.

That persons body is THEIRS...as such you have NO say in what they choose to do with it....furthermore, you have NO right to berate them or judge them for which choice they make.


Peace,
ALIEN

Technically, you have no rights after death. It's only out of respect to the families of the dead that they ask for your donation. You, won't give a crap what happens to your body when it's not yours anymore. Oh, I see...you think you retain possessions after death?

Originally posted by Creepy
not the kind of response id expect from a "Scholar"

That's really bothering you, isn't it? FYI, you get that title when you participate in a project in the research forum.
So, short of doing something as I've suggested, how would you suggest doing real research on this? Keep in mind, it's a complex web they weave. There is very little these people preach, and actually do. They only seem to comply to their own religious rules vocally. Good xians while in church, but evil sinners as soon as they get out. The most important tool to a Baptist is denial.

That's really bothering you, isn't it?

no not at all, i just think its kinda funny

Originally posted by Satyr
Technically, you have no rights after death. It's only out of respect to the families of the dead that they ask for your donation. You, won't give a crap what happens to your body when it's not yours anymore. Oh, I see...you think you retain possessions after death?

Technically be damned...it would be out of respect for someone who has passed on that I would still afford them some 'Right' to choose what happens with their body (within Legal reason of course). This isn't about retaining possession...its about being judged for not wanting to give possession to others.


And another thing...in case you have missed it somewhere...ATS is NOT the place for flaming or abusing people, for calling them 'frocking ignorant' etc etc as I have seen you do a number of times - and not just in this post. If you have issues containing your frustration towards people and continue to abuse/berate, a Moderator (oh, thats me) may have to Warn or impose a Posting Ban upon you.



Peace,
ALIEN

Sure, you have a right to choose....or so it's customary, but the reasons you choose determines whether you're indeed being selfish. Some people won't donate life saving organs merely because they believe in immortality and think they need their bodies in the afterlife! I have news for those people. Go dig up anyone who has passed onto the "afterlife", and you'll see how much they needed their bodies. All the corpses are still there, rotting in their caskets. They continue to rot, until there's nothing left but maybe a few bones. At that point, only mother earth is in possession of your organs.

Sorry. I'll try not to flame anyone. Some of them truly are ignorant though, and there really isn't a nice way to describe that wonderful character trait.

Some of them truly are ignorant though, and there really isn't a nice way to describe that wonderful character trait.

by far that is the most accurate comment ive heard from you yet....

Ok, you believe in doing what's right, helping others, being good, yet you will let someone die so you can rot away in a box with all your parts?

ME? I am an organ donor, but only a few people know. Why? You have a sticker saying you are a donor, might as well put a bulls eye on your back. People trying to stab you, shoot you run you down, so forth. Then one ignorant person, probably a baptist who needs a transplant or has a loved one who needs one and they blow you up while in your car. Afterwards they go over to the doctors and ask for your organs. "What organs" thedoctor will say. "The ones from the dead body in the explosion." The ignorant Baptist will say. "But the body was blown to tiny little pieces." Then the IB will say "You go to hell, you go to hell and you die!"

Good story don't you think? Here is a joke. "Why did the Baptist cross the road? Because someone told him Jesus was on the other side. But while crossing he gets hit by a car, goes to the hospital and dies. He is then buried. While his organs rot away a seven year old is brought in dieing from some weird disease that only a kidney tansplant can cure. The little kid dies and the Baptist still rots away with all his parts.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Then one ignorant person, probably a baptist who needs a transplant or has a loved one who needs one and they blow you up while in your car. Afterwards they go over to the doctors and ask for your organs. "What organs" thedoctor will say. "The ones from the dead body in the explosion." The ignorant Baptist will say. "But the body was blown to tiny little pieces." Then the IB will say "You go to hell, you go to hell and you die!"

Good story don't you think? Here is a joke. "Why did the Baptist cross the road? Because someone told him Jesus was on the other side. But while crossing he gets hit by a car, goes to the hospital and dies. He is then buried. While his organs rot away a seven year old is brought in dieing from some weird disease that only a kidney tansplant can cure. The little kid dies and the Baptist still rots away with all his parts.

according to the baptists..."donation is supported as an act of charity and the church leaves the decision to donate up to the individual"....

heres an interesting view on the issue

"the Roma (gypsies) share common folk beliefs and tend to be opposed to organ and tissue donation. Their opposition is connected with their beliefs about the after- life. Traditional belief contends that for one year after death, the soul retraces its steps. Thus, the body must remain intact because the soul maintains its physical shape."

the Shintoist have another view of it...

"In Shinto, the dead body is considered to be impure and dangerous, and thus quite powerful. �In folk belief context, injuring a dead body is a serious crime...,� according to E. Namihira in his article �Shinto Concept Concerning the Dead Human Body.� To this day it is difficult to obtain consent from bereaved families for organ donation or dissection for medical education or pathological anatomy...the Japanese regard them all in the sense of injuring a dead body.� Families are often concerned that they not injure the itai - - the relationship between the dead person and the bereaved people."

Religious Views from A to Z.

Just interesting facts....

When U.S. Deputy Surgeon General Kenneth P. Moritsugu's wife died in an automobile accident in 1992, six people received her organs, and with them, a new lease on life. When his daughter died four years later, also in an auto accident, seven more people got that same gift of life.

The benefactors of the women's organ donations included a mother of five, who received a new heart; a widow with four children, who received a lung; and a 12-year-old child, who received a kidney.

Organ transplantation saves the lives of thousands of people like them each year. However, the number of people in need of new hearts, kidneys, livers, lungs, pancreas, intestines, corneas - all transplantable organs - far outstrips the supply. More than 65,000 people are currently awaiting an organ transplant, yet 12 people die each day due to an organ shortage, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing.

"It's a medical problem that doesn't have to be,'' Moristsugu said at a conference on organ donation at The New York Academy of Sciences in New York City. "It's a disease with a cure.''

Read on....

www.healthatoz.com...

Are you a future organ donor, Creepy? I don't recall you stating your stance on this. Did you? Forgive me if I missed it.

Read on....

www.healthatoz.com...

whats your point?

Originally posted by Satyr
Just interesting facts....

I just like the way it works. Think of how many more people would be saved if there weren't people like the baptists I've met. There is no excuse not to participate in organ donation. What if it's you who needs a transplant? This is the kind of "saving" they should be doing.

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by Satyr
Just interesting facts....

nice edit

I knew you were going to ask me that, so I added it immediately....possibly while you were still reading.

since your in such an honest mood why not go ahead and admit that you were wrong to make the assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation? so we can get on with discussing the issue...

[Edited on 26-10-2003 by Creepy]