Organ Donation

Originally posted by �any
I believe that we will need one part of our body after death, and that part carries our consciousness. When that part goes into another body, the body takes a little of our consciousness on and when they reproduce then there's a chance our consciousness will be reborn into a new body.
I don't know what that part is though, maybe the frontal lobe?
I'd like to be eaten by tigers once I die, then there's a good chance I'll be re-birthed as a tiger.
Of course, this is only if you believe in my fairy stories...

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by �any]

Don't worry. You won't be disappointed, since you won't have consciousness anymore. So, what if the frontal lobe (or whatever body part you think might hold your consciousness) is damaged, or burned in a fire, or something? Are you then just dead for good?
This is exactly the type of limited thinking that drives these people. If there is something that's passed on after death, it would probably be more like electricity. Have you ever tried to kill electricity? It's quite impossible. You can only redirect it or store it for short periods.

[Edited on 10-23-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by �any
I believe that we will need one part of our body after death, and that part carries our consciousness. When that part goes into another body, the body takes a little of our consciousness on and when they reproduce then there's a chance our consciousness will be reborn into a new body.
I don't know what that part is though, maybe the frontal lobe?
I'd like to be eaten by tigers once I die, then there's a good chance I'll be re-birthed as a tiger.
Of course, this is only if you believe in my fairy stories...

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by �any]

Don't worry. You won't be disappointed, since you won't have consciousness anymore. So, what if the frontal lobe (or whatever body part you think might hold your consciousness) is damaged, or burned in a fire, or something? Are you then just dead for good?
This is exactly the type of limited thinking that drives these people. If there is something that's passed on after death, it would probably be more like electricity. Have you ever tried to kill electricity? It's quite impossible. You can only redirect it or store it for short periods.

[Edited on 10-23-2003 by Satyr]

Actually the frontal lobe thing was just where it might be, I didn't say it was.
I gowith the string theory on this, that we are all made up of vibrating strings, and I think one (or more) of these strings holds our consciousness.
You don't necessarily need to be consumed for it to be passed on, our bodies basically completely replace themselves every 7 years, so maybe during these replacements we take on other creatures' consciousnesses through the cell that is floating around.
This isn't limited thinking, this is learning and theorising.
[sarcasm]And thankyou for telling me about what happens afte death, you really put me in my place.[/sarcasm]

Speaking of how the body is regenerated in it's entirety every seven years roughly.
It has occurred to me to wonder if some of those molecules,minerals and compounds may have been used by someone else in the past.
Any one of us could be using atoms etc, which were once part of Isaac Newton or George Washington.
And then we have this "embalming" which is used widely,seems that maybe this would cause a shortage of molecules to go around eventually.
Just my mind rambling.
But I think maybe Jesus had something to say about re-incarnation,and what he said was stricken from the scriptures,because if everyone knew the truth,there would be no reason to worry about our earthly deeds or worldly works.
The liars will always be lying.
The sheeples who believe the lies will always be controlled by the liars.
It's Meaningless.

what fun!

What I've been telling you is, these people don't condone organ donation!

no you havnt....first you thought they were against it...so i posted the convention's statement.......then you said they dont "encourage" it....so i showed that they do....then you said that they dont "actively" encourage it...now you say that they dont "condone" it...

The church is just covering their azz with that neutral statement. They had more bad publicity than they could handle.

ahh yes...we all remember the great organ donation crisis that rocked the southern baptist church....how did they ever survive? so much bad publicity....

seriously though...what are you talkin about? ahh i see...you think the convention was held specifically to discuss organ donations ...wrong...they hold a convention every year to discuss current issues...every religion does it

How many Southern Baptist organ donors have you met?

im glad you ask....

seven of the seven southern baptists i asked,are organ donors...

so,lets see...the Southern Baptist Convention(the leadership of the church) says in part...

Whereas, complete resurrection of the body does not depend on
bodily wholeness at death and

Whereas, organ donation for research or transplantation is a matter
of personal conscience . . .

Be it further resolved , that we encourage voluntarism regarding
organ donation in the spirit of stewardship, compassion for the
needs of others, and alleviating suffering...

AND the seven southern baptists i asked are ALL organ donors....

your asumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...

as for the rest of the religions,here is the link from my previous post showing that the majority of the world religions have no problem with organ donation...

RELIGIOUS VIEWS ON ORGAN/TISSUE DONATION AND TRANSPLANTATION

[Edited on 24-10-2003 by Creepy]

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
Speaking of how the body is regenerated in it's entirety every seven years roughly.
It has occurred to me to wonder if some of those molecules,minerals and compounds may have been used by someone else in the past.
Any one of us could be using atoms etc, which were once part of Isaac Newton or George Washington.

EXACTLY! This is what I've been trying to get at in explaining the theory I put across, every living thing has been every other living thing (and the soil, and the rocks, the dust, everything) in the past.
Now if the atoms and matter have been used in the past and are re-used again and again, why not the consciousness? It's been proven with the Planarian worms that when they eat another member of their species which has found the way through a maze that the one eating the worm hasn't been through yet, the one that hasn't been through knows how to get to the end.
Surely this means that the consuming worm has taken on some of the consciousness of the consumed? Maybe it works more directly with planarian worms because they are such a simple organism, in human beings, because we eat so little of each part of other creatures and have such a complex brain, it is more suppressed in our consciousness.
What do we pass on when we reproduce? Genes. So maybe the consciousness of the things we consume are stored within us to be reborn in new bodies when we reproduce.
-breathes-

I'm not a organ donor because doctors are corrupt. You give them your organs and they chage someone hundreds of thousands of dollars to get it. I know equipment and drugs are expensive but, when I broke my arm, on the bill was a $9 charge for a marker. It was a Sharpie, I saw it, those things cost like a buck fifty at the store. That's when I descided not to donate my organs.

Originally posted by Creepy
no you havnt....first you thought they were against it...so i posted the convention's statement.......then you said they dont "encourage" it....so i showed that they do....then you said that they dont "actively" encourage it...now you say that they dont "condone" it...

ahh yes...we all remember the great organ donation crisis that rocked the southern baptist church....how did they ever survive? so much bad publicity....

seriously though...what are you talkin about? ahh i see...you think the convention was held specifically to discuss organ donations

...wrong...they hold a convention every year to discuss current issues...every religion does it

Whatever. I think you're full of #. I think I'm done arguing with you. You just keep ignorning the fact that I've met quite a few of these people. I don't care whether you believe me. Why should you? I don't believe you.
It's alot more than coincidence that I've met at least 5 baptists who are against organ donation. Of course, every cult is a bit different, I guess. These people don't exactly follow their own rules. They're hypocrites!

Southern Baptists pretty much started the KKK. I'll bet you believe them when they say they don't support the KKK too, eh?

BTW, I don't think they charge for donated organs. It's just the surgery that's costly, I'm sure. I could be wrong, though.

I think I'm done arguing with you.

of course you are...you have no argument to make....

You just keep ignorning the fact that I've met quite a few of these people. I don't care whether you believe me. Why should you? I don't believe you.

i havent ignored anything...ive met just as many as you...probably more...its up to the individual church members to decide if they want to donate organs or not...but i cant find one thats not a donor...

It's alot more than coincidence that I've met at least 5 baptists who are against organ donation.

yeh i know what ya mean...ive asked seven of them and they all are donors....

im not trying to argue with you....ive only answered the questions in your original post,thats all....here they are once more....

the Southern Baptist Convention(the leadership of the church) says in part...

Whereas, complete resurrection of the body does not depend on
bodily wholeness at death and

Whereas, organ donation for research or transplantation is a matter
of personal conscience . . .

Be it further resolved , that we encourage voluntarism regarding
organ donation in the spirit of stewardship, compassion for the
needs of others, and alleviating suffering...

AND the seven southern baptists i asked are ALL organ donors....

your asumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...

as for the rest of the religions,here is the link from my previous post showing that the majority of the world religions have no problem with organ donation...

RELIGIOUS VIEWS ON ORGAN/TISSUE DONATION AND TRANSPLANTATION

Baptist churches are as different from church to church as any cults are. The people I knew all went to the same 5 billion dollar recreational church. It's possible that it's just that church, I suppose. But I'm not wrong. I've heard Baptists say some of the dumbest and ugliest things. They talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. They're actually quite selfish and intolerant people, unless you belong to their church. I also don't think I've ever met a baptist who didn't tell me I was going to hell because I don't believe in god, or I'm not one of them.

But I'm not wrong.

your assumption that the majority of southern baptist are against organ donation is wrong...

i just got my drivers license in the mail and a blank organ donor card came with it, i'm gonna fill it out, the greatest gift i can give to someone who is dying is an organ

Originally posted by Creepy

But I'm not wrong.

your assumption that the majority of southern baptist are against organ donation is wrong...

What undisputable evidence do you have to support this? About as much as I do, perhaps? What state do you live in anyway? That also may be a difference. All I have to judge them on, is my time in AL., and they are, without a doubt, the most unreasonable and illogical people I've met, for all sorts of reasons.

am i on some sort of hidden camera show or something? ill play along

What evidence do you have to support this? About as much as I do, perhaps?

the resolution
Southern Baptist Convention Resolution On Human Organ Donations

encouraging organ donation
Thousands of lives at stake in organ donation decisions

spending money on encouraging organ donations
Mississippi Baptists approve record-breaking CP budget

religious views...including southern baptist
RELIGIOUS VIEWS ON ORGAN/TISSUE DONATION AND TRANSPLANTATION

an urban legends website page...
Urban Legends

i could go on and on...

your asumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...

You're saying that hypocrites stand by their statements? That's bull#!

You:

EDIT: Ahhh NO! JUST NO!...play nice or Warns start sprinkling like the lovely Spring rain...

Originally posted by Satyr
You're saying that hypocrites stand by their statements?

no....i am saying your assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...and that the majority of the worlds religions have no problem with organ donation...

Originally posted by Creepy

Originally posted by Satyr
You're saying that hypocrites stand by their statements?

no....i am saying your assumption that the majority of southern baptists are against organ donation is wrong...and that the majority of the worlds religions have no problem with organ donation...

The organization, maybe. But the individuals themselves seem to have more religious personal problems with it. I sure as hell wouldn't say "no problem".

eheheh do i really need to repeat myself...again?

Originally posted by Creepy
eheheh

do i really need to repeat myself...again?

Sure, why not. I've already repeated myself in every way I could think of, and you still don't get it.

Oh yeah, BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, this forum is called " Conspiracies in Religion & Spiritualism".

Who cares...its your body, do what you like with it. You shouldn't be hassled because you choose to be an organ donor...nor should anyone call you selfish if you don't...

...for those who think its selfish to 'hoard your organs'...put your money where your mouth is, kill yourself now and donate all your organs to those who need them while they are still young and fresh...why wait till you are older and the organs are worn out a little...

...seems stupid doesn't it...just as stupid as telling someone they are selfish for not doing it...but wait, you need them right now...still selfish, by that train of thought, putting your own need (be they physical or spiritual) above the needs of others...



Peace,
ALIEN

I wonder if it would be fair to say that the majority of Southern Baptists in Alabama do not believe in organ donation, but the majority of Southern Baptists wherever Creepy lives do? Unless, of course, you are just enjoying arguing, in which case never mind me. Carry on!

As for my own thoughts on the subject:
I grew up in a Baptist church and I don't remember the subject ever being discussed, one way or another. I was taught that our bodies return to dust and only our spirits transcend earth and go to Heaven. Hence the statement, " Ashes to ashes, Dust to dust."

I have no doubt however that some idiot is teaching people that we will need our physical bodies, for some reason, after they're dead. People manage to find all sorts of excuses not to show compassion for each other. Unfortunately, many of them claim to be "Christian", even though they have no concept of what Christ taught.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

If we are supposed to be willing to die to save someone else, how can we justify not saving or helping someone after we are dead?

We are not supposed to love ourselves more than another while we live. But it's somehow justified to allow someone else to die, just because you died first?
I don't get it. Sorry.

Try telling a parent whose child died because a heart wasn't available for transplant that, you're sorry for their loss, but God gave your body to you and nobody else can use it. That God would rather you let their child die, then expect for you to donate your heart after your death, so that their child could live.

My only issue is with the cost to the families as a result of the operation. I would like to add a stipulation to organ donations, that if I am willing to donate a piece(s) of my body upon my death, patients should not have to pay for the transplant. It is morally wrong to profit off of someone else's tragedy and resulting generosity.

That being said, to use that as an excuse is a cop-out. You cannot, honestly, say that just because the family gets a huge medical bill, you have their best interests in mind when you deny a patient the chance to live.