6000 Year old Earth? T-Rex on Noah's Ark??!

Ok, I'll start by saying I am mostly an evolutionist, but I wont put anything down untill it can be proven, well untill I seen this....

Among Ham's beliefs are that the Earth is about 6,000 years old, a figure arrived at by tracing the biblical genealogies, and not 4.5 billion years, as mainstream scientists say; the Grand Canyon was formed not by erosion over millions of years, but by floodwaters in a matter of days or weeks and that dinosaurs and man once coexisted, and dozens of the creatures -- including Tyrannosaurus Rex -- were passengers on the ark built by Noah, who was a real man, not a myth.

Just like to see what ppl have to say about this. Myself I think this Ham person is just a scam starter, and he wants to Profit off religious propiganda with his museum... Nothing more. God sells, everybody knows that. Look at the "Da Vinci Code" movies and books. Havnt read yet, but have it in my plans... Should be an interesting book. Although ateleast the author and producers of the books and movies tell you flat out - Yah, its a FICTIONAL book/movie. But this guy actually believes this (or is pretending to to make some cold hard cash is my theory)

Just like to see where this one goes...

www.livescience.com link

[edit on 18-5-2006 by jta79]

[edit on 18-5-2006 by jta79]

mod edit, spelling in title

[edit on 3-7-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

i love how people use purely Biblical statements to back there statements. Since it says it in the bible, it has to be true

Last time I checked the Bible was a Book of Story's and Interpretations, NOT facts, whether people want to accept it or not.

6000 years, B.S IMO

Exactly. I'm not a religious researcher or anything, but I know I am correct when I say that the Bible was NOT written in English and I dont care what language you translate into what language, there's always things that just dont come out the same, and somethings can mean something else totally different.

Also a question of the 'biblical flood' Is there even enough water tied up on this earth to actually account for a flood of such magnitude? Been thinking of that for a while...

Or did we lose a whole bunch when the 12th planet crashed into us?? haha\


[edit on 18-5-2006 by jta79]

Well, thankfully today with a good education, not all religous people believe the earth is around 6,000 years old. The one's who do are refered to as young earth creationists. The whole flood issue is a direct rip from an ancient summerien myth that predate's monotheistic religion. There possibly was an actuall flood event that this myth plays off of, but back then, pretty much what they saw was the whole world. Man and dinosaur never lived together either, the YECer's have no evidence to provide for this delusion of thiers. Many of the stories in the bible are pretty much direct rip-offs of older pagan myth's, as are the holidays and symbolism's as well. The whole hell concept actually stems off from a real life place back in the day, basically a garbage dump where refuse was burned, along with criminals. Nearly everything you see in the bible you can trace back to much older pagan mythologies, including our beloved Jesus. In a way, even God and Satan are extremely similar to the sumerien mythology. And yes, there was an Eden. It was a real place, just not the way it was depicted in the bible. Again, it too can be traced back to sumerian mythology.

As for as the topic of discussion, I have heard of this guy and don't find anything amzing about his theory , other than some one actually got a bunch of ppl to belive it.
As for the "Great Flood" assessment's? Well, I have heard that the flood in question was a very isolated one that took place aournd 5k yr's ago and it occurred supposedly around the Black Sea region of the earth. I heard that it was a natural formed dam at the mouth of the mediterranian sea that connected to the black sea that gave way. The ppl of the origin would of anticipated it as a "Global Event" but from their point's of view of what was taking place. There has been extensive studies and exploration's of the said area and they are finding out that the new day assumption's may be right on target for the story of the "Great Flood" scenario. They have taken Rov's to the bottom of the Black Sea and have found an ancient shore line and some man-made structured timber's,(Possibly stud's for buildings) still erect and sticking out of the ground under the water on the ancient shore line.I'll see if I can't get anything off of the internet to better inform you of this find,K?



As for the "Noah's Ark" case? From everything that I have ever heard or read, there is much to be debated, the sheer size of the Ark would been a feet in itself, but who's to say it wasn't possible of that time , with enough help of man-power and materials?
I think it is fair to say that there has been "Noah" searcher's that have been debunked with there find's but the story of the "Great Flood" and "Noah's Ark" go hand in Hand with each other throughout time and even exceed's pevious thought of date's , Take a look for that as well.
Good thread and very interesting, to say the least, just haven't heard of any ground shaking new discoveries over this very "Elusive" topic in a while now.

Who know's, I haven't checked for a while either, I'll get back to you if I find anything or atleast show you some stories that I had mentioned earlier.

Found this about the black sea flooding:

www2.sjsu.edu...

Here is a little something I found out about the 6000 year old theory:

www.crank.net...

[edit on 18-5-2006 by Allred5923]

[edit on 18-5-2006 by Allred5923]

[edit on 18-5-2006 by Allred5923]

[edit on 18-5-2006 by Allred5923]

I don't know about the Earth being 6000 years old. There may be a significant gap in time between some of the early chapters of Genesis before Noah. How long is anyone's guess.

The Bible says it never rained before the flood. The waters above were separated from the waters below when heaven was formed. Then the waters below were separtaed form each other and the surface of the Earth was formed. Many Bible scholars take this to mean there was a 'water canopy' in the upper atmosphere that insulated the earth, allowing man to live to advanced age due to protection from UV and other solar radiation, and also increasing the atmospheric pressure on the surface to a degree that allowed large land animals such as dinosaurs to exist.

Back to it never raining before the flood. All moisture was said to have been provided by a mist that rose from the ground and fountains of water that sprung from below. When God decided to destroy man, His creation, because man had succumbed to wickedness, He brought down the water canopy to cause the flood.

He chose Noah, the only remaining righteous man, to build the ark and repopulate the earth following the flood. The Bible states it took Noah 150 years to build the ark. Bible scholars teach there were dinosaurs on the ark, but after the flood and the destruction of the water canopy, the atmospheric pressure was reduced and radiation increased to the the point that the dinosaurs died off quickly after leaving the ark. Also, at this point, the lifespan of man started to decrease slowly into the 120 year range.

As far as the flood being a local vs. global event, Bible scholars say that due to the fact there are still occasional local flooding events of some magnitude, the flood had to be global, because God promised, with the rainbow as the sign of the covenant, that he would never again flood the earth, and God never lies.

I do, however, recall from my reading of the Bible, I think in Chronicles or Kings, reference to peoples "from the other side of the flood", leading to my own speculation that the flood may have been extremely massive, but that it did have "the other side" to it. I don't know, so I'm reading the whole book all over again. I recommend it to everyone.

The Grand Canyon was started in weeks or DAYS from flooding?



Can anyone tell me where the new big canyon in New Orleans is... And, it never rained until the flood? I gotta admit, that's a new one. So, the water cycle didn't work back then like it does now, just like a whole bunch of other stuff, including miracles...

Icarus Rising

Back to it never raining before the flood. All moisture was said to have been provided by a mist that rose from the ground and fountains of water that sprung from below. When God decided to destroy man, His creation, because man had succumbed to wickedness, He brought down the water canopy to cause the flood.

If this 'water canopy' was sent to earth to propigate the 'great flood' I'm just wondering where it all went now?

As far as the flood being a local vs. global event, Bible scholars say that due to the fact there are still occasional local flooding events of some magnitude, the flood had to be global,

How does that make any sence really? Just because we have flooding here and there on earth, how does that prove that the great flood was a global event???!

Allred5923

As for as the topic of discussion, I have heard of this guy and don't find anything amzing about his theory , other than some one actually got a bunch of ppl to belive it.

Yeh, that should be classified to be a miracle in itself.

As for the "Noah's Ark" case? From everything that I have ever heard or read, there is much to be debated, the sheer size of the Ark would been a feet in itself, but who's to say it wasn't possible of that time , with enough help of man-power and materials?

On the manpower portion of this. Wasnt the arc supposidly built alone by Noah? And if Noah was to recruit enough manpower to pull off this amazing feat dont you think, noah being out numbered and all by the 'wicked' people that are working for him I dont think that noah would be leaving in his little boat alone with his animals.

And another point. If noah was to be the only man on this ship, it would have been impossible to tend all of those animals. They have to eat after all, I've worked in pig barns of 2500 sows, and I know for sure I wouldnt beabled to tend 2500 animals alone not even thinking about millions. (gotta carry Lots of Something for t-rex to eat wouldn't you?)

I know for a fact if I had helped some guy build an arc, helped him load millions of animals onto it, there's no chance in hell that that boat will be leaving ANYWHERE without me on it. And If the boss wanted to protest that, I think he would be one of the people doing the backstroke.

Sorry if this post makes a little less sence than it seems to me at this point... its pretty late and my eyes are going on me.... Apologies in advance...

The whole flood issue is a direct rip from an ancient summerien myth that predate's monotheistic religion.

This is a topic that is highly debatable, and one that I am now in the process of creating a thread for. I would appreciate your opinions in that thread, by the way. But just as a starter, there is the interesting fact that Utnapishtim, which is the name of the Sumerian Noah character in the Gilgamesh myth(I assume this is what you are referring to) is translated from Hebrew to mean, "he who walks as a pillar of righteousness". Little coincidental to have come before the Bible story of Noah, IMO.

I think the Hindu religon has a creation myth that stats the earth is 4.3 billion years old. Or atleast thats what Indians of the fifth century AD calculated the age from their religous text. Which is impressive since thats pretty close to what scientist believe.

Theres many creation myths some better then others it seems.

Interesting enough Hindus also I think have a end of the universe/rebirth which is alot like the "Big crunch" theory for the end of the universe. Scientist are leaning more towards the "Big freeze" at present but have already changed their minds more then once.

It would be quite interesting if the big crunch and another big bang turns out to be right after all.

@EdenKaia,

Interesting, especially considering the time difference between the myth and the begining of the hebrews. The sumerian civilization appearing 4th millenium BC and the hebrew dialect appearing 6th century BC. The babylonian empire was still in existence when the hewbrew culture eventually came around, it's really no surprise that the two culture's would have met, traded, exchanged mythologies and languages. We can see many instances of the judaistic religion borrowing from older culture's, mythologies, holidays, symbols, etc.

We can see many instances of the judaistic religion borrowing from older culture's, mythologies, holidays, symbols, etc.

Hi prot0n,

Can you give specifics?

Originally posted by jta79
Exactly. I'm not a religious researcher or anything, but I know I am correct when I say that the Bible was NOT written in English and I dont care what language you translate into what language, there's always things that just dont come out the same, and somethings can mean something else totally different.

Also a question of the 'biblical flood' Is there even enough water tied up on this earth to actually account for a flood of such magnitude? Been thinking of that for a while...



[edit on 18-5-2006 by jta79]

Your first paragraph is the standard reason most use to not believe it. In other words an excuse to write it off and not bother with it. The decision to view it this way is a CHOICE that people make, and they are certainly free to do that. There are others who have used their free will to make a CHOICE also, and believe what it says as truth.

So since God has always been, He has given us the answers to the flood within the pages of the Bible. Since He was there, and none of us were, here's what He tells us happened.

There was a ring of water around the earth. He also placed water within the earth. The flood came from the ring of water as it fell to the earth as rain. Also the "fountains of the deep were broken up" meaning the earth's surface burst open as the water stored under it shot upward.

We've all seen the devastation caused by the tsunami in Indonesia. Water can cause great damage and destruction and mainly death to human life in abrief amount of time. Add to tsunami's, torrential rain from the sky and water shooting forth in great amounts from under the earth, and this water of the flood in Noah's time was worse than anyone can imagine.

Now the earth's landscape before the flood was different than the landscape we see now. After the flood, God tells us He had the "mountains rise and the valleys sink". The floodwaters receeded into these ocean basins.

There is enough water on the earth right now to flood it considering God tells us the landscape was different then. It was more level and would have flooded easier.

Now you can choose to believe this or not. But remember you are making a choice, no one is making this choice for you. A reason some people choose not to believe that this is how it happened, is because they limit God. People make God out to be too small and powerless. He spoke the world into existence out of nothing, so He surely has the power to alter it's topography. God is a GOD. He is all powerful and His abilities are BEYOND what any of us can imagine.

Now since I believe what He tells us regarding the flood and how it happened, I can move on to other questions. The flood one is settled for me(and others who trust in what He says in the Bible). We have the answer to the flood. We don't have to keep searching and wondering, "hmmm........, I wonder if there really was a worldwide flood and what happend during it". We also don't have to fall for every new fairytale that comes along and ponder over it as to whether it is plausible or not as to the flood answer. We have the answer to that question, so we are FREE to move on to other questions and grow in knowledge and truth.

Originally posted by jta79
On the manpower portion of this. Wasnt the arc supposidly built alone by Noah? And if Noah was to recruit enough manpower to pull off this amazing feat dont you think, noah being out numbered and all by the 'wicked' people that are working for him I dont think that noah would be leaving in his little boat alone with his animals.

And another point. If noah was to be the only man on this ship, it would have been impossible to tend all of those animals. They have to eat after all, I've worked in pig barns of 2500 sows, and I know for sure I wouldnt beabled to tend 2500 animals alone not even thinking about millions. (gotta carry Lots of Something for t-rex to eat wouldn't you?)

I know for a fact if I had helped some guy build an arc, helped him load millions of animals onto it, there's no chance in hell that that boat will be leaving ANYWHERE without me on it. And If the boss wanted to protest that, I think he would be one of the people doing the backstroke.

We are not told anywhere in the Bible who besides Noah built the ark. We are not told if it was 1 man or 1 million men. So we can merely speculate. We are told that he had about 120 years to build it. Alot can be accomplished in 120 years.

8 people were saved on the ark, not just one. So did eight people help build it or were there more. You say it's impossible for others(wicked people) to work on it and not have as part of their contract the clause that they get to go on the boat. Not true. I know people who work for causes that are good, yet themselves do not believe in the cause. We are leaving out the fact that people will do almost anything(even stuff they don't believe is true) for one thing in return, MONEY. Money is a powerful persuader and people will do alot of stuff to get it.

As far as the animals on the ark. He only had to take kinds, not all the different breeds within each kind. Also baby animals eat less. Inactivity causes less of an appetite and a degree of hibernation could have taken place with the animals.

As far feeding the animals. He had 7 others to help and what else did they have to do. They weren't going anywhere. They could devote themselves to the care of the animals solely.

Plus, the major "thing" that made the building of the ark and the feeding of the animals possible is GOD Himself.

Gen.7
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

As you will notice from this verse God told Noah and his family to come into the ark. God didn't say go into the ark, He said come into the ark. Meaning God was already in the ark and He told the 8 to come in and join Him inside. I am 100% sure that with God inside the ark with them that all the feeding requirements could be accomplished.

Also besides this being a story of physical thnigs that happened there are spiritual lessons to learn from all of the stories in the Bible. Do a google search for them. Here's one www.believersweb.org...



[edit on 19-5-2006 by dbrandt]

Hi dbrandt,

Well, of course, we know that if there was a canopy of water/water vapour surrounding the earth, then the resultant greenhouse effect would make life very difficult - increased temperature and pressure.

As for juveniles, the sex of many species are difficult to determine when juvenile and when mature. Of course, I suppose god helped out here.

There is no evidence of a global flood, but reams of evidence for an old earth disconfirming strict YEC.

As for 'kinds' - what is a kind? What we see with species is what ToE expects, no discrete kinds, many species that border the heirarchies used in biology.

Of course, your god can do anything, so what's the point of trying to explain anything - invoking such an omnipotent being explains everything and nothing.

You also have a CHOICE to write-off the evidence that is all around you and find solace in a book written by uneducated people. Your choice, your free-will.

I like this subject, how old is the earth we know.

We could argue alot on the subject but we will always remain in the dark because we dont have any trust source to rely on. Religion or science i say its the same BS.
It basicly a subject when we can only speculate on.

On some fact i found over the years, i saw the dr Dino docs who show some very conclusive fossilize footprint of dinosaur(very large but you can always suspect somthing other than a dinosaur) with human footprint, making me thinks dinosaur could have live with human. Then about the flood, what if they found fossils of close oysters shell on the Everest. Its true i think that ppl was living over 100 years old as he explain of a tribe living in Pakistan who was close from our modern world recently and was living over 100 years easy, w/t cancer. He say their secret is residing in apricot seeds, very interesting as we all know that comon medical treatment have such a bad rate of succes compare to nutritional therapy, especialy for cancer.

My opinion on this ... well , i dont think the earth is 6000 years old neither 4.2 billion years, but i can speculate it could be 100k years, i have nothing to back me up on this except comon sence.

I believe Noah built the ark with the help of his three sons


Shem, Japheth and Ham.

If my memory is correct.

Originally posted by eagle eye
We could argue alot on the subject but we will always remain in the dark because we dont have any trust source to rely on. Religion or science i say its the same BS.

On some fact i found over the years, i saw the dr Dino docs who show some very conclusive fossilize footprint of dinosaur(very large but you can always suspect somthing other than a dinosaur) with human footprint, making me thinks dinosaur could have live with human.

If you want BS, then dr dino is a good place to find it. If it is the paluxy tracks you are referring to then they are not human footprints at all.

Dunno how you can claim religion and science to be the same BS. The latter relies on actual evidence, the former, lack of evidence.

Originally posted by melatonin
Hi dbrandt,


As for juveniles, the sex of many species are difficult to determine when juvenile and when mature. Of course, I suppose god helped out here.

Genesis 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

Good guess.

Yeah, if you can't explain it - "goddidit". Must be nice to just fallback on such phenomena, whilst scientists work away trying to explain nature with hard evidence. Ignorance and bliss come to mind.

So what about this 'kind' thing. It seems to me that kind is just 'species' and was until ToE came along and messed it all up for creationism. This is the best outline from the OT...

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

15 Every raven after his kind;

16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

Leviticus 11

bat...




So, I guess you can add more god powers, you would need much greater numbers than two of each 'kind' to have viable populations.

But, hey, whatever floats ya boat


[edit on 21-5-2006 by melatonin]