Iran`s letter

I don`t know how many of you have read the president of Iran`s letter but i have just and it basically tears Bushs government apart. Setting aside the fact that Iran`s president isn`t the moral pillar in the world, he question`s the event`s of 9-11, how the survivors were cared for, guantanamo bay how Jesus`s teachings corrospond with the behaviour of a born again christian President. It questions why Israeil should have been given a home at the expense of the Palestinians. Condelezza Rice called it an attack on America, NO it is an attack one her and her her governments actions, there is no anomosity shown towards the American people in the letter, infact it sympathises with your discontent shown towards the government. I`m sure some of you will dismiss the letter out of hand becasue you are told to but if you haven`t read it yet, i think you should.
Any thoughts would be welcome from those who have read the letter.
Gracius

Yep, I agree, I dont like the president of Iran, but the whole letter was a rip on the people who run the US government. This must be why they didnt make it public. Ive heard the media say that the letter was the Iran president was "trying to work out a peace deal" but thats a bunch of bull. If they didnt catch on, the Iran president was being more of a smartass by pretty much saying "You should listen to what Jesus says, like you say you do".

I wish someone would release the letter, I would LOVE to see it.

But alas, we live in the censored America, and even members of Congress don't get to read it.

I thought it was a pretty sincere letter. Also, I don't like how the media is bashing him for doing this. First of all, atleast he's trying to establish some sort of dialogue with the US, which they themselves have not. I don't see where they got the jew baiting from, facts are facts. Anyways, here it is.

www.judeoscope.ca...

I dont buy it personally.

Classic misdirection strategy - let the enemy think you are going one way, when really you are going the other.

After reading the letter, i'd say it's pretty bloody embarrassing for the bush administration. Apart from the religous ramblings i'd say he's spot on.

No wonder the Bush administration won't respond

Wonder what the reply would be of the letter ..lets hope by peaceful means by all

I read it, and you know what it is? Its Islam’s Declaration of Independence. Its starts with a list of grievances and ends with an offer to join them. Its exactly what it is and that’s exactly what the Declaration is. How scary is that? It quotes the Quran at length and ultimately asks Bush to submit to it. You know the Quran states that you must offer conversion to Islam to the infidels before you kill them: Convert or die. But don’t take my word for it:

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

So there we have it: The offer to believe in Allah, in print to the leader of the free world.

Ahmadinejad has basically just started WWIII with that letter, and that’s exactly how it will be remembered, you read it here first.


[edit on 11-5-2006 by skippytjc]

Best link directly to the actual text without the political spin I can find:

www.judeoscope.ca...

Could someone post the text in its entirety for ease of discussion here? I don't have the full Acrobat installed at work so I can't use the translation function or I'd do it. It's 8 pages, I guess that is probably too long. I encourage people to read it though.

It brings up some interesting points I would be curious to see answered by the people calling for war. Overall its a damning piece on the administration and their hypocrisy. Ugly situation, I certainly don't support Iran and its idealogy of a world with no Israel but overall the letter seems sane. Certainly at odds with the aggressive picture being painted by our media of the Iranian leader being completely lunatic and insane.

He brings up the lies the administration and media propagated to fuel the hysteria for war in Iraq, and the complicity of intelligence organizations in something as complicated as the 911 attacks. He mentions that never in history outside the Middle Ages has scientific development been villianized. Convient cover for nuclear ambition - but largely correct. He makes mention of OUR governments overthrow of their government in 1953, is that not fair to bring up?

He mentions the 'what if' of spending the billions that are spent on the war effort were instead spent on social programs, what would the world look like? For the sake of discussion, I'd like the people calling for more war to suspend their understanding of the situation and think 'what if' the world had no war, and all that money were channelled into social programs and development of society. What could we do with billions spent ONLY in America, FOR America? (yes yes, I am well aware that it is not the reality, and security of our nation dictates we need to take action against threats - just try to think outside your box for a moment)

I find the portrayal and respect for the U.S. majorities belief in Jesus Christ interesting. Yes, there are points he makes using the Koran, but the first half of the letter repeated poses questions in the light of respect of the teachings of Jesus Christ with no influence of Koranic belief. Excellent point to in that the wars and actions of our government is far from following the teachings of Jesus Christ. The Koran isn't even brought up until page 7 of 8 and only 3 verses are quoted. How is this over the top or insane given that it comes from a country that is a religous theocracy?

The talking heads are spinning this as a declaration of war and the opening moves towards a fatwah in Iran. I guess I'm just ignorant and blind, I see a message or peace. Without falling back on talking head points - can anyone quote the actual text of the letter and show me where the Iranian president is insane (ASIDE from the Israel commentary) and hellbent on destruction of the people of the west? He makes statements saying that the imposition of western life on the world has not worked, but is that the same to you as calling for our destruction??



I'd VERY much like to have a discussion on the IDEAS in the letter, as opposed to a biased he-said,she-said argument over what the 'true intentions' of the letter are.

I have a couple of problems with the letter, so I want to ask some questions hoping someone has the answers.

How did a group in Canada get a hold of an official letter to the president of the US? (This alone smells big time as to its authenticity.)

One would think a letter of this nature would at least be treated as confidential or secret information since it is from one head of state to another which are carried in diplomatic bags.

Why is there no Iranian letterhead, why is the syntax/structure of the letter so bad? Surely an official letter from one head of state to another would have proper sentence structure, which this does not; nor does it have a proper salutation or date.

skippytjc- I don´t think he is trying to convert anyone. And to suggest he has just started world war 3 is ridiculous, what an over reaction, That´s what casues wars.

I too had to go and look for it to find out what it said, perhaps our 'free' media should think about that?

As for 'threats' and 'declarations' and all that?

I didn't see that. I saw a call (which rather sadly I notice Rice rejected and was commenting upon without - she admitted - even having read the text) to work things out. I saw a call to look to work for better peaceable relations if only through the shared religious values that those involved claim to hold.

Where is there even the possibility of "misdirection"?
How are Rumsfeld or Bush et al supposed to be 'misdirected' by this (cos I don't think they are giving this the slightest chance nevermind taking any of this so seriously)?

I guess some people are just determined to see the world through 'topsy turvey' lenses and are plainly in denial about which country has it's military stationed throughout the region and globally, is up to it's armpits in (litterally) trillions of $ worth of conventional, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and has umteen proven systems to deliver them.

(It isn't Iran.)

Originally posted by skippytjc
...........You know the Quran states that you must offer conversion to Islam to the infidels before you kill them: Convert or die. But don’t take my word for it:

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

So there we have it: The offer to believe in Allah, in print to the leader of the free world.

Ahmadinejad has basically just started WWIII with that letter, and that’s exactly how it will be remembered, you read it here first.

....And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them....

....And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.....


How did you miss these important parts of the koran you posted?
It specifically states that you fight back, only when persecuted. You fight until persecution is no more and for what is right by religion.

Now instead of allah in that quote, put in god Jesus, buddha, whoever, allah is what they named their god and god represents good, not persecution.

This quote says nothing about killing infidels without good reason, ie; persecution.

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point - that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their problems. My question for you is: "Do you not want to join them?"

The gist is this: Iran's president has just officially invited the United States to embrace Islam.

This is not good.

We are in troubles

Scary!

Some Middle East observers believe Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter to President Bush could be a precursor to war, based on a traditional Muslim pattern of offering acceptance of Islam before establishing it by force.

Robert Spencer, editor of Jihad Watch, says Ahmadinejad appears to be following the teachings of Muhammad, who gave specific instructions to followers as they engage in "holy war" against "those who disbelieve in Allah."

Real reason for the letter?


Toadmund maybe the president feels being persecuted! As far as I know he has some problems with Israel and the USA:.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by jefferson101]

Originally posted by Toadmund
....And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them....

Say what? We did not attck Osma he attacked us first with the first attack on the WTC, then various other attacks ending with the massive distructiion of the WTC.

The same goes for Spain they never attacked them, they attacked Spain or atleast they claimed they were responsible for it, the same goes for Britain although I do think there is now evidence pointing to another group.

Odd how his supporters take the same phrases over and over twisting what is said to make it look different the next time around. :shk:

It's not about spain or Osama, it's about the US threatening Iran. And the general US medling in mid-eastern affairs for years. I think the mid-eastern folks want the US to leave them alone.

Please don't distort what I say.

Thank you.

PS, what you quoted was me pointing out how the poster mis-interpreted the koran saying they start wars merely because they don't share the Korans beliefs, where it specifically states, when persecuted.

[edit on 11-5-2006 by Toadmund]

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
skippytjc- I don´t think he is trying to convert anyone. And to suggest he has just started world war 3 is ridiculous, what an over reaction, That´s what casues wars.

I don’t think he has any aspiration of conversion either, but I do think that letter was, in his mind, his religious duty as has been mandated in the Quran prior to actions against the infidel. Offer them a change, and if they don’t, kill them.

And that letter follows the context of the Decleration of Independance to a T.

This letter has a great deal more meaning and significance than its being credited for.

Originally posted by Toadmund
It's not about spain or Osama, it's about the US threatening Iran. And the general US medling in mid-eastern affairs for years. I think the mid-eastern folks want the US to leave them alone.

Please don't distort what I say.

PS, what you quoted was me pointing out how the poster mis-interpreted the koran saying they start wars merely because they don't share the Korans beliefs, where it specifically states, when persecuted.

I am not distorting anything. And yes it does include Osama and Spain. We did not persecute Osama in fact at one time we helped him, but then being the yellow belly sapsucker he is he turned on us to further his own agenda. An agenda that I might add is only shared by a very small percentage of Islam. The only one distorting anything is Osama and his thug/supporters. They do not want any to have freedom at all and heaven forbid if one should send a girl to school and give her and education

in 90 we did not attack Iraq, they attacked Kuwait first and then after being asked by several Muslim nations the US agreed to help them out. Something I would hardly called persecution, but what they hey as I said his supporters will say one thing one minute then twist what was said to fit their agenda.


It is truly sad that only a few can see what he really wants is to make you his slaves nothing more. Run out and defy him once and I gurantee you you are toast.

Where did you read Bush is a born again Christian. Because a person goes to church and speaks of God he is a religious fanatic?