Chavez asking his people to make him president until 2031!

Originally posted by nikelbee
Jackjuice

I think you have the wrong idea. My aim was not to lambast you at all. I was trying to explain the unfortunate drug problem in Latin America and why it is unfair to pin the blame solely on the countries manufacturing the drugs. My rhetoric was not directed at you. It is fair to say that in order to argue something, one must be well informed about the various different sides of the argument. I was acting as devil's advocate for the 'war on drugs'.

Chavez has many faults and Venezuela (like a lot of South America) is in need of serious economic, political and progressive help. I just think it is too easy to accept the propaganda about Chavez' *evil* socialism because it echoes the US government's agenda.

i completely agree with you, perhaps my little snippet wasn't clear enough of my view that demand is the reason for the drug problem and not so much on supply. I apologize if i was being unfare about your post. Anyhow i just hope Chavez doesnt become dictator of their country while he may or may not be a good leader, i couldn't speak to this, i personally believe strongly about checks and balances.

Last I saw Venezuela was an independent free and democratic sovereign nation quite capable of deciding their own path.

Chavez, their democratically elected President, apparently has a plan (or more accurately 'program') that he reckons will take until 2030 to complete.
The Venezuelan people may 'buy' into this or not.

But it is entirely a matter for them whether they do and whether or not they modify their constitution in whatever way they see fit.

Personally I suspect that the fact that they know this kind of talk will get right up certain American noses is more than half the point of all this, no one can predict 24yrs hence, but such is the corner Bush's south American and obviously partisan 'diplomacy' has painted the US into.
Chavez is not alone either, he has ignited a taste for a more assertive Sth America and it is apparent in the policies of Bolivia and Brazil nowadays.

Just because today's version of the US right-wing can't abide a critic (and one with so much oil that refuses to be under their control) is no reason to claim the kidnap or murder of this man is 'the right thing to do' ........jayzus wept, is that the sorry state they have come to these days.

Funnily enough there was a pretty balanced article about him in today's 'Observer' newspaper here in the UK.
observer.guardian.co.uk...

He may not be a saint (whoever made such absurd claims anyway) but the claims that he is 'dangerous' and a 'Hitler' are quite laughable and simply indicate a fear of the independent democratic forces that have put him in power in the first place.

Bush hates Chavez because Chavez was elected, in a landslide, and by the people. Bush got elected because he was perceived as the "lesser evil", Chavez was elected next to several other candidates with widely differing agendas with an overwhelming majority. That is something Bushies hate to talk about- that he was ELECTED and that nothing will ever change that. Bush want's a coup.

Politically, I think Hugo Chavez is walking on a minefield with his country's constitution, if enough people grant him too much powers due to their professed admiration for what he has done for Venezuela in the past 4 years. I would say that Chavez have planned this long in advance, thanks to his key strategic relationship with Fidel Castro. Following Castro's political power-playbook?

It's important to keep in mind that in South American politics, the key to win the supports of the poor is to give them what they asked for and wanted. If that is done with gradual policy shaping of the country's foundations through the years, then the majority of the poor will lock in their complete support of that leader for life. In this case, Chavez have succeeded beyond expectations and is now on his way of becoming a socialist dictator of Venezuela through deliberate and consensus-building measures which Chavez, I presume, has been quietly implementing long in advance.

The key thing is to look at who's really backing Chavez, privately, behind the scenes? I do not mean Castro or some loyal Venezuelans but the very powerful or influential key elite players from South America and beyond. Who have the real hidden vested interests in Chavez's ascension and the future of Venezuela?

They have none. Unless you mean the enlightened elite which want's to pull Venezuela out of the bog of Oligarchy and corruption which it was before a no nonsense Jimmy Hoffa like man such as Chavez came along. I rank Chavez up there with the great leaders Latinamerica has had (the ones with balls who risked getting killed just to improve their nation's quality of life)- Peron,Vargas,Kuibtzchek, Bolivar, San Martin,etc.

I don't see any problem with people in South America taking a tougher stance in order to protect their interests. The problem with Chavez is his desire for power, people forget that he was involved in a coup attempt in the early 90s as a paratrooper. Just because he might have good intentions does not sheild him from being corupted by indefinite executive authority.

Well, most of the decent leaders Latinamerica has had (Peron, Fujimori,etc.) did these sort of things in their youth. Fact is he was elected on a landslide verified by the Carter institute and the UN. The people love him. You do have a point, but thing is, if he wanted to be a dictator, he would be by now. He is after all an army man with only a feeble school of the Americas division being the only part opposed to him seizing absolute power (which hasn't happened until now).

Originally posted by Nakash
Well, most of the decent leaders Latinamerica has had (Peron, Fujimori,etc.) did these sort of things in their youth. Fact is he was elected on a landslide verified by the Carter institute and the UN. The people love him. You do have a point, but thing is, if he wanted to be a dictator, he would be by now. He is after all an army man with only a feeble school of the Americas division being the only part opposed to him seizing absolute power (which hasn't happened until now).

this site is filled with so much right-wing bull# that I think the people who say it is COINTELPRO are probably right on the mark

Chavez is not a dictator. He is helping to make his country more democratic thru the creation of community-driven councils which help Venezuela to further direct democracy.

The proposition does not eliminate elections but merely sets a limit to how many times he can run (until 2031)

[edit on 7-5-2006 by stan_man]

[edit on 7-5-2006 by stan_man]

[edit on 7-5-2006 by stan_man]

Another stupid Latin American that only cares about its vanity.
Latin America already has seen his type of idiots before, their only legacy is a county in ruins.


In the 60's they were meant to invade the region, however because of the cold war, right wing dictators ruled several countries (sponsored by the US), but oh god, its difficult to determine which one is worse...

Chavez cares for Chavez and is nothing but a dictator waiting to pounce, so far he has lots of gullibles opening the doors for him

Does anybody know if this story is true eg. right in Venezuela?

Secondly, I have to respect the fact that he is asking if he can do this is which is better than just taking power for 25 years without permission.

But, any person in Venezuela that agrees to this is wacko, no matter how much they like him now because in 25 years he will be a power obsessed tyrant in all likelihood.

I can't believe that there are so many people posting here that likely live in domocratic countries that support this?

Even if they think that their country is so evil or corrupt or they have come to hate it, I can't see any first world countries that have the same person at the helm for 25 years in recent times. A degree of democracy is better than none at all and if you are not happy with the way it is then get out there and do something about it.

If you think hard giving anybody a guaranteed job for 25 years does not make any sense, especially a job like this.

This is too funny....he's asking his people to vote him in as dictator???

What the heck is this world coming to?

Dictators just stay. They dont get elected.

Hello???!!!

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
To be fair he provides alot of money and help to countries surrounding him and in his own country

Lets not forget he kept good on his word to help poor americans with heating oil when American Oil companies were reporting record profits and doing nothing but raising the prices. Maybe its just PR but still its more then Pat Robertson who said he should be assasinated did or Exxon did for the americans that needed help.
Whn he first made that offer I figured it was just talk, but over the winter there was a news article on his selling heating oil to poor americans below current prices. I thought that was a great gesture.

I think it's pretty unreasonable for a democracy to use a 25-year term, as Chavez apparently wants. It makes more sense to allow voters the option to change their leaders more often, if they so choose. If the people want to keep voting Chavez in, that's fine, but give them the chance to change their minds sooner than 25 years from now! If they want to elect him five times for 5-year terms, that would be fine, because it would indicate the people still wanted him in office. But, if he screws up, and can't be removed for 25 years... well, think of what you would feel like if Bush was in power for the next 25 years

Color it anyway you want....

A president who coerses the people into "voting" him into office for a quarter of a century Is asking for PERMISSION to be a dictator?!!!

I'm living in the wrong times.

I am sure Bush is working on this as well. After all, the war on terror will take time. Wont it? Please look up the definition of dictator, wont you?

I have nightmares about Bush pulling this. I still say he will only leave the White House kicking and screaming!

I like and respect Chavez for what he does. He is a modern people's leader and does honestly resist the imperialist oligarchy that is the United States and her allies. The fact that he asked his people rather than just don a uniform and insist upon his right to lead is a true benchmark of the man and I believe an honest statement as to how far ahead some of these "pinko people's state" nations are when compared to the hijacked and morally lacking North American Alliance nations.

# YO COUCH, NIGGUHZ.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Lets not forget he kept good on his word to help poor americans with heating oil when American Oil companies were reporting record profits and doing nothing but raising the prices. Maybe its just PR but still its more then Pat Robertson who said he should be assasinated did or Exxon did for the americans that needed help.
When he first made that offer I figured it was just talk, but over the winter there was a news article on his selling heating oil to poor americans below current prices. I thought that was a great gesture.

HELLO??? Chavez is one of the men WHO WANTS TO KEEP PRICE OF OIL HIGH. It's the only way how can he fund his socialist dream. He is on of the price hawks in OPEC. And believe it or not those hawks have much more control over oil price than Exxon. Just read something about him (his political programme and proposals) for christs sake before you post such BS. He would be only happy if oil would cost more than 100$! Just because he sells a little oil for free doesn't mean he's philantrop LOL. I'm also amazed that some people here don't think he will be authoritarian/dictator if reigning 25 years without elections.

To the Morales topic - yes, allow poor bolivian farmes to grow coca! Why not allow poor afro-american drug dealers to sell coc aine? They need money too! Remeber we are not talking here about soft drugs like pot, but about coc aine! What's the difference between Morales and drug dealers? Both want just to profit from human suffering. And you think it's OK.

And while Exxons profits might be high, their profit margins are +/- the same. They make more just because the oil prices are higher, but their margins remain app 10%. That's really not that much. Just look at the Microsoft and then talk about high prices. Well, let's say that they would be so good and they'll sacrifice their profits - gas will cost few cents less (10% is really not that much) but they'd have zero profits and may bankrupt.

Actually 10% margin is huge if you are talking net profit for a company. Many huge corporations take in less than 5% profit margin.

My company makes between 2 to 5% net and to accomplish that we charge from 20-30% margin whenever possible. To get a 10% return we would probably have to sell everything at 40-50% margin. And remember 50% margin is practically 200% markup.

Anyway, Hugo Chavez is good for the poor of Venezuela, but no good for the middle class in venezuela. I work with a man originally from Venezuela, but now is an American Citizen. He actually has a much worse opinion of Chavez than I do. I don't think he's Hitler, but any sort of 25 year term can't be good.

Even if he is asking them to vote. There is still a lot of partisan violence in Venezuala especially during voting.

it's not a 25 year term it's a limit to how many times he could be elected. so he is not asking for 25 years without elections he is asking for 25 years with elections so he can accomplish socialism and then let the people rule....

I hope I'm not wrong but I think if he wanted to be a dictator he would've done it by now and he hasn't so just stfu already...

Lets just say for conversations sake that he rules the country for another twenty years at least. Lets say he asks the people, and they continue to vote him indefinetly. He expands social services and gives the people more than a typical capitalist nation would.

Lets say this helps the citizens lives prosper and the nation itself sustains on its own and wants to trade with the world. Why do they not have the right to trade with the world? If this happens the US will want to cripple its economy the way it has done to Cuba. Why? To make it look like those socialist life will not work. Of course if you are unable to trade with the globe you will be unable to acquire some resources that a small nation like Venezuela or Cuba would lack. Why do they deserve sanctions because they allow the leader to rule indefinetly and they can have better lives (so long as sanctions are not imposed)?

What are the point of the sanctions than? To say that the government must not serve its people better? Or that the indefinete ruler should not allow the policies which would help that happen?

Of course the system is going to break down and suffer with global sanctions, but that had nothing to do with an indefinete ruler or socialist lifestyle. It was the fact that someone did not want the lifestyle to appear to succeed. I wonder why that would be?