10mm Auto ammunition.

I was reading up on the 10mm Auto rounds and I was wondering if anyone ever had experience with this round and it's savage recoil, I heard it's one of the most powerful magnum pistol rounds, the only thing that comes close is the .357 round in ballistics.

Ofcourse the most powerful pistol round is the .50AE.

If only the Bren Ten (of Miami Vice fame) got reproduced and rechambered for the more common .40S&W (Short and Weak as the 10mm fans call it).

This thread was loosely based on information on wikipedia.com, please review the 10mm article.

I have shot one. The recoil isn't all that bad in the Glock model 20 which I understand is the best Glock and 10mm pistol you can find, granted both of those were on a Glock specific forum. I myself am probably going to pick up one or two in the next few months.

I like the Glock in the 10 because you can get 15, 17 and 29 round magazines, that is a lot of fire power (in terms of pistols of course). I am going to use it for backpacking in black bear country and may even use it for deer hunting. I have heard the ballistics are more .41 magnum like but I think that is a moot point

[edit on 1/5/2006 by AKaholic]

GZ - what sort of handguns have you fired in the past? I'm sure you could get a decent idea for the 'feel' of a 10mm based on experience.

I've never shot anything in 9mm that made me really 'notice' the recoil. I had shot a .357mag that was impressive... unfortunately, I do not own a .357 and cannot remember what loads were handed to me other than me asking "Gimme the hottest stuff you got". 6" or so barreled revolver with a holosight actually felt similar to being punched in the face each time the percussion hit me. I could almost smell blood but didn't see stars. I had only shot a .357 one other time and the loads were pretty weak (semi jacketed wadcutters). I can remember the recoil being no more significant than the S&W 9mm I had with me.

Significantly 'snappier' recoil than the .44mag with 240gr FMJ loads I was shooting last weekend. 240's in the .44 actually seemed pretty timid.

Hope that helps at all.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRoOfcourse the most powerful pistol round is the .50AE.

Oh, and IIRC, the .500 S&W is capable of significantly higher ft-lb muzzle energy than the .50AE. That's off the top of my head, but i'm pretty sure I looked into it at some point in time.

yeah, i've shot the glock 20. shot it when i was about 15 or 16.the recoil didn't really hurt or anything, although the gun always flew up over my head. you've just got to learn to get a good, tight grip on them, which is hard if you don't have big hands.but personally, i love the pistol, because with hydrashock rounds, there's almost nothing you can't kill with it. i also like it because it's a very futuristic gun. and the knock down power...

Recoil, don't worry about recoil, even the 40mm is weak in my opinion when it comes to recoil. I've shot a 12 gauge pistol grip shot gun non supported, just aiming it like I had a solid shoulder seat and cheek weld. Ripped out 7 shots no problem, black powder had more kick.

When reading this thread title my first thought was, sub machine gun "auto". In that respect I would suggest a MP5/10. It has a 30 rnd mag, is of course 10mm and is upgradeable with 3x scope and suppressor or custom parts of course.
That is a full auto and in considerably accurate in that sence. Obviously bursts and controlled shots will improve the accuracy aspect, but even if wild fireing the recoil isn't bad.

Before buying a firearm, go down or up to the local range, and ask if you can try out the pistol of your interest. Almost every one, at those places are nice and willing to tell who ever will listen, about their baby and how it works. That way you get to shoot the pistol before buying and really see what is right for you.

Oh, and IIRC, the .500 S&W is capable of significantly higher ft-lb muzzle energy than the .50AE. That's off the top of my head, but i'm pretty sure I looked into it at some point in time.

Oh I realise that the .500 S&W is more powerful but it is a revolver round so I was only mentioning auto pistol rounds

I never had the priviledge to fire a pistol yet since I am originally born in the gun grabbing country of the Netherlands and I only started shooting after I met my now wife, I shot a Winchester 30-30 lever action, a 12ga Remington 870 and a Marlin model 60, I shot various air guns including a blow-back airsoft pistol that simulates real recoil.

I plan to purchase a .40caliber pistol pretty soon, as soon as I get my license to purchase here in Iowa and have the funds available, i'm currently saving up...I know I should probably start with a 9mm but i'd rather have something that can protect me if necesary.

Does anyone have a comparrison of the 10mm vs .357 sig? I would be interested to see how they stack up to one another.

The 10mm Auto was replaced by the .40 S&W. The .40 has very similar characteristics.

The FBI adopted the 10mm Auto in 1989 or 1990 IIRC. But it was quickly changed.

The .40 S&W was introduced in 1990. It can fit in most 9mm pistol frames, whereas the 10mm Auto cannot. Therefore the .40 was more easily adaptable.

The .40 is almost exactly the same diameter, but its a shorter bullet.

The .40 S&W has the following characteristics. (Using regular fmj)

Muzzle Velocity: ~1200fps.
50yd Velocity: ~1050
Energy Transfer @ Muzzle: ~500 Joules
Energy Transfer @ 50yds: ~400 Joules

The 10mm Auto has the following characteristics (using regular fmj)

Muzzle Velocity: ~1150fps.
50yd Velocity: ~1050
Energy Transfer @ Muzzle: ~550 Joules
Energy Transfer @ 50yds: ~450 Joules

The .357 SIG has the following characteristics (using regular fmj)

Muzzle Velocity: ~1350fps.
50yd Velocity: ~1200
Energy Transfer @ Muzzle: ~500 Joules
Energy Transfer @ 50yds: ~400 Joules

Extremely similar....

They have roughly the same stopping power (energy transfer), but 9mm frames can be adapted to accept .40, wheras the 10mm Auto needs a specific design.

.40's are fine.

The .357 SIG certainly has a higher muzzle velocity, but the bullet is smaller, so the energy transfer is roughly the same.

Just stick with the .40 S&W they're cheap and abundant. The 10mm is a dated round, and I don't think many gun manufacturers support the round with any of their products anymore. I know HK stopped making the MP5-10mm Auto because the market just moved away from that round.

HK, funny enough, made 1500 MP5-10mm solely because the FBI showed interest, because it was for a short time the standard round. Otherwise there would be no MP5-10mm weapons at all.

Yeah, the .50 S&W magnum is a beast.

1900fps muzzle velocity, with almost 2.8k Joules energy transfer... can we say overkill for self defense?

The .50AE isnt far behind. IIRC its got a Muzzle velocity of around 1500 fps, and an energy transfer of 1.5k joules.

Can someone explain to me the practicality of a weapon like this besides turning on the TV and opening a beer can? Or clobbering someone with it?

Hope this helps guys!




[edit on 2-5-2006 by Galvatron]

[edit on 2-5-2006 by Galvatron]

My observation of people that like big caliber guns is the following:

-Like big muzzleflashes
-Like lots of recoil.
-Like big heavy guns.
-Enjoy the bragging rights
-Penis Extention

Personally i've never considdered buying a 10mm unless I a nice sum of money to burn like over a few 10k or so

Otherwise i'd just go with the .40S&W my self like I already am intending, the 10mm was more of a curiousity than anything...

reading this board I am cracking up here at the computer desk. I do however agree with some of the postings here.

A guy I know across town knows I reload ammunition. He owns a 10mm pistol. He is one of these guys who gets a fancy for every new gadget that catches his eye...this month. Now that he knows how expensive the ammo is for the 10mm he is looking for someone else to come across for him by reloading. No thanks.

I did however recently purchase new updated Hornady reloading books as the one I had was over 20years olde. I was not really impressed with the 10 mm round listed in this reloading manual and for many of the reasons mentioned by other posters.
I just dont care to stock a new class of powders , bullets , primers and of course reloading dies. This is the main reason I decided not to purchase a .44 Magnum. Totally different numbered primers, . ..bullets of course...different powders than what I normall stock.
I keep small pistol and large pistol primers in stock ..for most of my pistol calibers..large rifle and small rifle primers. Most of the powders I keep in stock will reload more than one type of cartridge. I try to plan for this commonality. Not so with the 44 Magnum. Very different set up for the magnum.
Recoil is a good reason not to use a certain type of weapon for standard every day carry. Professionals know this...especially if you have to shoot hundreds of rounds when you have to qualify or requalify.
While we desire to have a weapon which can deliver the energy needed..controlability in repeat shots is a factor in this.

If I want to suffer the indignity of lots of recoil I go out and shoot my 12 gauge Ithaca model 37 12 gauge with buck shot or slugs. This is a very light short barrelled police shotgun. Viscious recoil.
I will also take my Thompson Contender in 35 Remington out to shoot if I want recoil. It is a 14 inch barreled single shot pistol. I have to use a glove when I shoot it in this caliber or it will jam my nerve in my wrist and numb my hand between shots. THe 35 Remington rounds I use are like a 30-30 ..but with a bit more powder and a 200 grain round nose rifle bullet. I obviously bought to much gun here. I dont shoot it much. But I do let people shoot it who like to brag about recoil...just to watch their faces.
I have another barrel for this pistol in .223 caliber...very managable ..even good powder burn in the short barrel in this caliber. This one I shoot more often.

I agree with Galvatron...what is the purpose of a weapon like a 10 mm when there are so many good alternatives out there which are much more managable.

Ground Zero to your generous list in your last post I would also like to add...these people; wanting guns like this are observed as liking to dole out large sums of moneys on ammunition.

Well said Gentlemen..keep it in the X ring.
Orangetom

Galvatron,

You are wrong on the FPS. The 40S+W is about 200 fps slower then the 10mm.
Standard size Glock the FPS was 1250 for the 10mm, 1050 for the .40 if I remember right. .40S+W is a good round, but for power it is outclassed by the 10mm.


I'll have to grab my crap from work and post the actual differences between the rounds.(More acurate then my memory)

Keep in mind FPS doesn't mean dick, you want to now how much ftlbs the bullet hits with, how much energy is transfered to your target.


The 10mm handle on the Glock was to big for me to buy for home.

[edit on 2-5-2006 by jihad213]

Originally posted by Galvatron


Can someone explain to me the practicality of a weapon like this besides turning on the TV and opening a beer can? Or clobbering someone with it?

Thanks for the ballistics info I appreciate it. I would like to get a H&K or Sig in .40 and then get a .357 sig barrel for it. I know the HK USP mags are the same for both rounds.

The S&W .500 was designed for professional guides, backpackers, and hunters in dangerous bear country according to S&W themselves.

Jihad,

I can't say that the 10mm Auto has a higher velocity.

The data I used was standardized.

The median bullet weight for the specific cartrige was used, they were all FMJ, and all out of a 5" barrel.

So according to these criteria, the data is dead accurate.

Different barrel length bullet type jhp etc. or bullet weight will certainly provide different results.

Galvatron and orangetom1999 are absolutely right here.

10mm is dated and damn expensive.

So far 357sig is the best all around consumer round.

.40SW stands for slow and weak, I can't stand it.

A hot 9 is just as good with higher ammo load. Come on guys, the 10 round ban is over, lets get with the program.

9x21 IMI (UZI for one) spanks both the .40 and the 10mm.

About the same power as .40s.10s all while keeping standard ammo load.

Beretta chambers 9X21, but I'm still waiting for the SA to chamber the XD for the 9X21, then I'm all over it.

For a good "domestic" 9 can't beet HK P7M8/13.

The only useful 10mm I've seen is called .224 BOZ, which is a 10mm casing necked down to 5.56.

Zipps through kevlar like butter.

Both Glock and Colt conversions were made, but to this day they're little more then novelty pieces.

It's all old news anyway. Russians had the same idea back in the 70s with their PSM, a tiny little thing chambered for 5.45X18 that defeats 34 layers of kevlar.

Palestinian hit squads also necked down IMI UZIs 9X21 to both 7.62 TOK heads, and widely available 5.56mm green tips to defeat Israeli armor.

Worked for them, no need for exotic 5.7x28 FN, good old slammers work just fine.

Isklander and all you Americans, the ten round ban may be over where you live, but not here. We have to live with fierce-ass restrictions. I have not escaped ten-round hell. Really, the thing I can hope for is a heavier round. Hell, I can't even find hollowpoints a lot of the time!

That aside, I'm curious about the round still. Has anyone compared the trajectories on the rounds?

Also, could I get a comparison to .357 Mag or .45ACP?

DE

From what I remember, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, the .357 Mag out performs the .45ACP numbers wise.

However, everything that I've read points to the .45 being just as an effective weapon for quick incapacitation.

I own 4 firearms.

FN five-seven: I wouldn't count on it for self defense, I mainly have it for eccentricity. Its a fun gun. albeit expensive.

CZ-TT: My first gun that I bought a year and a half ago. I bought it mainly for the looks, its a .40 and its a CZ which are typically high quality.

FN FNP-9: My 9mm. This one I carry for self defense because I get the best grouping with it bar the 5-7, and loaded with JHP it offers similar terminal energy transfer as a .45

HK USP: Another gun I really dont use other than for fun. It was expensive. It's accurate for a .45, it looks business, and its build quality is probably the best, although the rest are very very good. I can get good grouping with the .45, but not as quickly as the 9mm or .40.

I'd have to say my favorite is the CZ TT, but the most practical for me is the FN FNP-9.

Hope this helps some of you.

Jeez Galv, where do you get the spare change to spend on all those guns? they are all quite nice...and you bought all these in a year and a half?! wish I had that kind of money.

It's kinda funny, I hear about so many people carrying but I never met anyone who actually carries here in Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin...not even when I lived in Council Bluffs right on the border of Omaha Nebraska did I hear much about people carrying guns, only a cab driver had a gun in his cab to protect him self with and with good cause!

If anyone is ever interested in donating to my gun fund go right ahead (yeah like that's gonna happen lol).

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
It's kinda funny, I hear about so many people carrying but I never met anyone who actually carries here in Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin...not even when I lived in Council Bluffs right on the border of Omaha Nebraska did I hear much about people carrying guns, only a cab driver had a gun in his cab to protect him self with and with good cause!

Most people i know that carry don't talk about it, so you would never know until bullets start flying


Galv, thats a nice little collection you have there. I think the FN 5.7 is a cool gun,a nd would love to try one some time.

Did you buy them all new? I know someone who bought a used Sig that had a few mags thru it for like half the price of new.

How's the FNP? As something I can never own up here, I'm curious. ALways been a fan of FN. HK is again quite a respectable brand.

DE