Evolution: the conspiracy of creationism's favorite son, Hovind., page 2
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reply posted on 31-10-2002 @ 01:01 AM by FreeMason
Lol, I just have to start taking this appart....

Beginning with earth's spin, the earth's spin is slowing down DUE to the moon, its spin of course is slowed down exponentially meaning in the beginning the effect was much much SLOWER then it is today, as in the future our spin will begin to slow down faster and faster until finally our spin matches that of the moon, and presto, no more moon rise...

...Civilization has nothing to do with god, they fail to mention that until only about 2000 years ago almost NO ONE believed in just one god...hmm if god created everything why is it we began believing in as many as 10,000 gods?

...Population Growth, LAUGH MY ASS OFF this guy has obviously not even taken a rudimentary Sociology class. Population has remained roughly the same since about 0 AD till about 1800s (about 25 -100 million people) It was not until we learned how to prevent death through diseases and until the industrial revolution that allowed for sudden population "explosion". The population in 1900 was about 1.7 billion, and now in 2000 it reached 6 billion people, currently it takes only 12 years to add another billion people to the planet.

...Moon giving way, again this is an exponential factor, it is due to angular velocity more then tidal forces, the moon's orbit is such that it increasingly spirals away from the earth, until one day it is flung from orbit.

...Space dust on moon, this one is really dumb, the dust on the surface of the moon is not "space" dust only, it is mostly pulverised basalt and other minerals from volcanic activities that were present on the moon billions of years ago.

...Helium, hmm this one stumped me only because I have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge on this, but considering helium is only made in the nuclear fires of stars, I can only say that this accumulation has nothing to do with the age of the earth.

...Mutations, he obviously has no idea what a mutation is, mutation IS evolution, without it we'd all still be bacterium.

...Polonium, God damn it...forcing me to get my chem book *grumbles* ahh just as I thought, Po 218 is not found in Granite, in fact Po is only found in something called Pitchblende or is manufactured, the scientist furthermore is a fraud and I found a website that proves that...

www.skepticfriends.org...

...Planets cooling, this is debateable, although pressure and such causes changes in heat, it is now most accepted that our world among others are "fueled" by uranium deposites, besides, look at Mars, it has already cooled off. Hence why it is now devoid of water too... NEXT!

...Saturn's Rings, this is a great one, every astronomer on the planet will tell you we are the most lucky creatures in the universe....because Planetary rings are VERY rare and when formed only last for a few million years, saturn has NOT always had rings and will not in another million or so years...reason, Planetary rings can only form when they have "sheppard sattelites" holding them in orbit, for the same reasons our moon is leaving our orbit ever so slowly, angular momentum, these sheppard satellites will eventually be flung from the orbits of the rings, and in saturns case...the ones causing the devisions of the rings, they will TOTALLY obliterate the rings

...comets, no...in fact most comets probably aren't more then 10,000 years old, comets originate from the Orr belt I think it's called, and they do not shed material until they become too close to the sun, in fact we've already watched several comets that man has eyed for millenia, die out in the past few decades.

...Oil, LoL the rocks CONTAINING oil is porous, but still it is surrounded by non-porous material, thus the pressure IS contained, this is christian contrived bull Sh@#.

...Oldest living Plants, this is stupid there are older plants then bristle cone and the coral reefs have nothing to do with this, this is bad reasearch on the christian's part....Bristle cones' LIVE for 4500 years, they didn't come about 4,500 years ago, they are MUCH older then that.

...Ocean Salt, again like EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE, it is cyclical. While present values of salt per water may be increasing, it also decreases....for instance in the time periods where there is no ice that occurs shortly after Ice Ages, other stuffs is that salt like anything else both settles to the bottom or is used by a living organism then settles to the bottom and is eventually subducted by Tectonics.

...Stalactites, hmm....stalactites, form as fast as the content allows, if the "dripping" effect is much faster in a less than natural instance as in the basement...then yes it is going to form faster, however when there is usually only one drop a day or sometimes a week in some caves, a stalactite will form MUCH slower.

...Earth's Position, duh...we wouldn't be here otherwise, this is the same thing as, well earth CAN be somewhere other then the goldilocks position...but we wouldn't be around to know that so it HAS to be here, or we'd not exist

...Earth's rotation, Yeah well that's why nothing lives on Mercury.

...Earth's orbit again, it's not very circular, and secondly, our eccentricity of the orbit has little to do with our moderate climes, it's all about the atmosphere and well, geologics, and most of all, water....all this water.

...Greenhouse, yes, these gasses produce a greenhouse...

...Tides, well the moon CAN'T be 1/5th the distance away because, to sum it up poorly it would have to be travelling at least if not more, 5 times its current speed, and well, the tidal forces would be tremendous enough to tear the two bodies apart, which of course those kinds of extremes are balanced out due to physics, as you see, the moon is in a nice calmer orbit

...Crust, this is very not true, Mars could support life now and its crust are nearly 1,000 miles thick, vs. our 5 mile thick at most crust, the difference is Mars is now a cold lifeless world, no internal heat.

...Tilt, god and my chair has four legs...

...Ozone, actually no, the cockroach can survive on earth, minus the fact it wouldn't be able to breath, if it didn't have ANY atmosphere, radiation is only bad to creatures like US and other beings dependant on earth's peculiarities.

...Atmosphere, I'd give credit to our great sheild the MOON more then the atmosphere, besides it isn't a great protector, look at the dinosaurs

...Size, water isn't held in the atmosphere NOW hah...it still escapse albeit slowly, besides this is opinion, no decent scientist even believes life is restricted to needing water, just so happens to be that way on earth.

...Nitrogen/Oxygen, we only need Oxygen, nitrogen bad, booooo to nitrogen

...Magnetic Feild, yes well again, look at Mars, it has no feild and consequently it has no atmosphere

...Water, yes well water is so remarkable that it HAS to have been created by god...but water is bent in the shape of a triangle, which is a pagan symbol, so I guess that means god is secretly telling us that there are many gods, or he is the Devil

Sincerely,
no signature



reply posted on 31-10-2002 @ 07:36 PM by FreeMason
Yes...apparently, though it's probably not Truth's fault, these Christian nuts are quite convincing at first, but a little

" www.badastronomy.com "

goes a long ways

That web site is great for anyone who wants to see how bad astronomy can get, and it REALLY debunks the retarded "moon landing hoax" theorists.

As for Truth, I just want to stress again that retarded Polonium thing that was his main focus of that link.

The scientist that found that polonium in granite must be a superman or something, to be able to find something with the half life of a few minutes, that is basically saying, god created the item right before you got there, man if only he was a tad faster maybe he'd catch God in the act.

Furthermore, from what I know about "Very" fast half-lived elements...they usually are only discovered in the labs...only polonium 208-210 probably actually occur in the wild, and the rest of the isotopes were just discovered through processes manipulating polonium and other elements. Though I could be wrong, but doubt it

Also, if no other credible person can replicate this discovery, that really does say a lot...

Ahh...I always laugh at these people who claim the world is young, noooooo....the only time in this universe where god was truly prevelent was the big bang....hmm here's one....Our universe is well over 10 billion light years across, since the speed of light has been slowing down minisculy then that must mean that the universe is pretty damn big, therefore it has taken at least as many years to reach that size as it is big...hence "light years".

Christian believers somehow decide to ignore the fact that...well that we are expanding...they keep saying, well "it's like this and therefore we are 6,000 years old" but they don't go, "Well the universe is 13 billion lightyears across and therefore is 13 billion years old".

Yet another classic example of selective science, and that's why religions hate science religions "give" answers, science creates more questions

Back to the point, that Polonium halo guy, is a quack.

Sincerely,
no signature


reply posted on 1-11-2002 @ 08:37 AM by William
Originally posted by Truth
I believe the drive to fabricate for creationist are their buisness in god, and for evolutionist is
their not wanting god to be proved.


Don't assume scientists who are studying evolution don't believe in god. One of the most respected Christian colleges teaches biologic evolution:
www.wheaton.edu... . These kids at Wheaton are discovering the misinformation of their upbringing, and have some serious issues with their beliefs (some have even said they feel betrayed). Here we have stout creationists, examining the fossil and genetic record on their own, learning science, and coming to the conclusion there is overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution. Even to the point of defining dozens of ìtransitionalî species creationists teach donít exist.


Can you provide one (one for now please) example of where you believe an evolution scientist has fabricated their information/findings?

Thanks.


reply posted on 1-11-2002 @ 03:48 PM by William
Stewards...

The vast number of deception and lies are pervasive throughout
www.drdino.com....

For example, Hovind lumps evolution with cosmology when he asks for evolution to prove the formation of the universe and planets to satisfy his challenge. Biologic evolution cannot address such an issue. Upon this fundamental deception, he builds much of his case.

As another example, from his FAQ's: "No one knows what light is or that it always travels the same speed throughout all time, space and matter."
A lie and deception.

Like I said, there is more. Is there on in particular you have in mind?

[Edited on 1-11-2002 by William]


reply posted on 2-11-2002 @ 01:05 AM by MidnightDStroyer
And..."Thou shalt not bear false witness (Lie) against thy neighbors..."

Does one *have* to have belief in God to deny evolution? No! The more I learn from the sciences, such as astronomy, biology, physics, etc. the more convinced I am that the existance of such things *had* to be created. The odds of life forming from lifelessness on *any* planet are literally astronomical. IMO, God started the whole thing off & just "nudged" a few small things here & a few small things there, because He already *knew* what would form from His "nudging". And He's been doing it in such an energy-economical way...By nudging instead of "forcing" things to turn out the way He wants.

By "nudging" certain specific atoms & molecules around in a certain way, He created life from His original creation of the universe (Which can explain how we were "formed from the Earth"). He has probably directed more energy to create the "obvious miracles" within the sight of men than He did to actually create humans...But for Him, it's still nothing more than a "nudge"; But those "nudges" that He's performed in front of people are what He's been using to guide us in the direction He wants us to go. In other words, I don't believe that God is actively *controlling* His creation...More like actively "nudging" us in a certain direction.

By wondering about God's creation & studying it, we're beginning (We've still got a *lot* to see yet; The scientific study of our universe is still pretty young) to see what God has put here & what He's been "nudging" around.

So who's to say that evolution isn't merely one of God's tools, using what He's already created, for making another creation (us)?

If you read enough about Eienstein, he came up with his most brilliant theories in physics when he would just sit back & ask himself, "If I were God, how would I put the universe together?"


[Edited on 2-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]


reply posted on 2-11-2002 @ 02:36 PM by MidnightDStroyer
Originally posted by Truth freemason do i need to "prove" my god is the only one??

This statement is totally irrelavent; You have yourself stated that God isn't interested in providing proof because it denys faith. Even this makes no sense, because my faith would only grow if I had some concrete proof of God's existance because I would then *know* that my faith was never founded on "coincidence". No, miracles are *not* proof...They are an *indication*. Therefore, how would you propose to *prove* the existance of God? See, such an attempt would only be irrelavent under the current circumstances.

Originally posted by Truth...and will atack soon as i post them.

Did you actually mean to use the word "attach" instead of "atack"? In the word you actually *used*, you're only one letter shy of "attack". Please be a bit more precise in your use of words...Slow down your typing enough that you can be more accurate with your words; Whoever is interested in discussing anything with you in a reasonable manner will be patient enough for you to make your meaning more clear. Since words are the only means of communication here, they should be chosen carefully. Ambiguity only leads to further conflict.

For instance, as I'm reading through the posts, I keep Wordpad ready to copy/paste any quotes I wish to use (This makes it a bit easier to reply to different people & different posts) & so that I can check over my typing before I actually make a new post of my own. Granted, a few mistakes still slip through, but then I can always edit my own posts afterwards...
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