Evolution: the conspiracy of creationism's favorite son, Hovind.

You have excellent faith. let me give you this link to
give you some facts about what you already "know" to be true which
is gods existence.

the most amzing thing you will read is that granite was formed in less then one second. they determine this
by the polonium halos found in the granite and find the half life of it.


www.1timothy4-13.com...

yes god can creat something out of nothing.

not like you need this stewards but you will find it interesting.

peace.

This is a repost

Lol, I just have to start taking this appart....

Beginning with earth's spin, the earth's spin is slowing down DUE to the moon, its spin of course is slowed down exponentially meaning in the beginning the effect was much much SLOWER then it is today, as in the future our spin will begin to slow down faster and faster until finally our spin matches that of the moon, and presto, no more moon rise...

...Civilization has nothing to do with god, they fail to mention that until only about 2000 years ago almost NO ONE believed in just one god...hmm if god created everything why is it we began believing in as many as 10,000 gods?

...Population Growth, LAUGH MY ASS OFF this guy has obviously not even taken a rudimentary Sociology class. Population has remained roughly the same since about 0 AD till about 1800s (about 25 -100 million people) It was not until we learned how to prevent death through diseases and until the industrial revolution that allowed for sudden population "explosion". The population in 1900 was about 1.7 billion, and now in 2000 it reached 6 billion people, currently it takes only 12 years to add another billion people to the planet.

...Moon giving way, again this is an exponential factor, it is due to angular velocity more then tidal forces, the moon's orbit is such that it increasingly spirals away from the earth, until one day it is flung from orbit.

...Space dust on moon, this one is really dumb, the dust on the surface of the moon is not "space" dust only, it is mostly pulverised basalt and other minerals from volcanic activities that were present on the moon billions of years ago.

...Helium, hmm this one stumped me only because I have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge on this, but considering helium is only made in the nuclear fires of stars, I can only say that this accumulation has nothing to do with the age of the earth.

...Mutations, he obviously has no idea what a mutation is, mutation IS evolution, without it we'd all still be bacterium.

...Polonium, God damn it...forcing me to get my chem book *grumbles* ahh just as I thought, Po 218 is not found in Granite, in fact Po is only found in something called Pitchblende or is manufactured, the scientist furthermore is a fraud and I found a website that proves that...

www.skepticfriends.org...

...Planets cooling, this is debateable, although pressure and such causes changes in heat, it is now most accepted that our world among others are "fueled" by uranium deposites, besides, look at Mars, it has already cooled off. Hence why it is now devoid of water too... NEXT!

...Saturn's Rings, this is a great one, every astronomer on the planet will tell you we are the most lucky creatures in the universe....because Planetary rings are VERY rare and when formed only last for a few million years, saturn has NOT always had rings and will not in another million or so years...reason, Planetary rings can only form when they have "sheppard sattelites" holding them in orbit, for the same reasons our moon is leaving our orbit ever so slowly, angular momentum, these sheppard satellites will eventually be flung from the orbits of the rings, and in saturns case...the ones causing the devisions of the rings, they will TOTALLY obliterate the rings

...comets, no...in fact most comets probably aren't more then 10,000 years old, comets originate from the Orr belt I think it's called, and they do not shed material until they become too close to the sun, in fact we've already watched several comets that man has eyed for millenia, die out in the past few decades.

...Oil, LoL the rocks CONTAINING oil is porous, but still it is surrounded by non-porous material, thus the pressure IS contained, this is christian contrived bull Sh@#.

...Oldest living Plants, this is stupid there are older plants then bristle cone and the coral reefs have nothing to do with this, this is bad reasearch on the christian's part....Bristle cones' LIVE for 4500 years, they didn't come about 4,500 years ago, they are MUCH older then that.

...Ocean Salt, again like EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE, it is cyclical. While present values of salt per water may be increasing, it also decreases....for instance in the time periods where there is no ice that occurs shortly after Ice Ages, other stuffs is that salt like anything else both settles to the bottom or is used by a living organism then settles to the bottom and is eventually subducted by Tectonics.

...Stalactites, hmm....stalactites, form as fast as the content allows, if the "dripping" effect is much faster in a less than natural instance as in the basement...then yes it is going to form faster, however when there is usually only one drop a day or sometimes a week in some caves, a stalactite will form MUCH slower.

...Earth's Position, duh...we wouldn't be here otherwise, this is the same thing as, well earth CAN be somewhere other then the goldilocks position...but we wouldn't be around to know that so it HAS to be here, or we'd not exist

...Earth's rotation, Yeah well that's why nothing lives on Mercury.

...Earth's orbit again, it's not very circular, and secondly, our eccentricity of the orbit has little to do with our moderate climes, it's all about the atmosphere and well, geologics, and most of all, water....all this water.

...Greenhouse, yes, these gasses produce a greenhouse...

...Tides, well the moon CAN'T be 1/5th the distance away because, to sum it up poorly it would have to be travelling at least if not more, 5 times its current speed, and well, the tidal forces would be tremendous enough to tear the two bodies apart, which of course those kinds of extremes are balanced out due to physics, as you see, the moon is in a nice calmer orbit

...Crust, this is very not true, Mars could support life now and its crust are nearly 1,000 miles thick, vs. our 5 mile thick at most crust, the difference is Mars is now a cold lifeless world, no internal heat.

...Tilt, god and my chair has four legs...

...Ozone, actually no, the cockroach can survive on earth, minus the fact it wouldn't be able to breath, if it didn't have ANY atmosphere, radiation is only bad to creatures like US and other beings dependant on earth's peculiarities.

...Atmosphere, I'd give credit to our great sheild the MOON more then the atmosphere, besides it isn't a great protector, look at the dinosaurs

...Size, water isn't held in the atmosphere NOW hah...it still escapse albeit slowly, besides this is opinion, no decent scientist even believes life is restricted to needing water, just so happens to be that way on earth.

...Nitrogen/Oxygen, we only need Oxygen, nitrogen bad, booooo to nitrogen

...Magnetic Feild, yes well again, look at Mars, it has no feild and consequently it has no atmosphere

...Water, yes well water is so remarkable that it HAS to have been created by god...but water is bent in the shape of a triangle, which is a pagan symbol, so I guess that means god is secretly telling us that there are many gods, or he is the Devil

Sincerely,
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All this time, Truth has been saying that "Science is bad", yet he's more than willing to provide a link to "bad science"...Self-contradition or what?

I think that the more accurate way to describe it is that Truth reads (or perhaps *understands*) only a *part* of what the sciences try to teach...And then fills in the details with religious dogma.

Yes...apparently, though it's probably not Truth's fault, these Christian nuts are quite convincing at first, but a little

" www.badastronomy.com "

goes a long ways

That web site is great for anyone who wants to see how bad astronomy can get, and it REALLY debunks the retarded "moon landing hoax" theorists.

As for Truth, I just want to stress again that retarded Polonium thing that was his main focus of that link.

The scientist that found that polonium in granite must be a superman or something, to be able to find something with the half life of a few minutes, that is basically saying, god created the item right before you got there, man if only he was a tad faster maybe he'd catch God in the act.

Furthermore, from what I know about "Very" fast half-lived elements...they usually are only discovered in the labs...only polonium 208-210 probably actually occur in the wild, and the rest of the isotopes were just discovered through processes manipulating polonium and other elements. Though I could be wrong, but doubt it

Also, if no other credible person can replicate this discovery, that really does say a lot...

Ahh...I always laugh at these people who claim the world is young, noooooo....the only time in this universe where god was truly prevelent was the big bang....hmm here's one....Our universe is well over 10 billion light years across, since the speed of light has been slowing down minisculy then that must mean that the universe is pretty damn big, therefore it has taken at least as many years to reach that size as it is big...hence "light years".

Christian believers somehow decide to ignore the fact that...well that we are expanding...they keep saying, well "it's like this and therefore we are 6,000 years old" but they don't go, "Well the universe is 13 billion lightyears across and therefore is 13 billion years old".

Yet another classic example of selective science, and that's why religions hate science religions "give" answers, science creates more questions

Back to the point, that Polonium halo guy, is a quack.

Sincerely,
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And thus continues the Conspiracy Hovind. Lies fed to Christians who "want" to believe them, are thus inspired to continue the lies. And obviously, continue to fund the original source of the lies.

Oh we lie but evolutionist are unspotted, unable to lie?

give me a break.

one thing about the ppulation growth. also back then they
did not have deadly eating habbits back then, growth always outweighs
death.

But this is useless. you think i believe because im fed crap??

ive seen miracles, jesus has revealed himself to me personally.

I know hes the lord. ive literally seen super natural events happen to me and
my family. you nor science cannot explain or diprove this.

im trying my hardest with you people, but soe have to learn the "hard" way.

peace.

skeptic friends network???

give me a break. Oh they cannot lie?

you get this from a website who has three monkeys on the front
and believe we evolved from apes??

man this makes me sick!!!

now i know where you get your info from.

boy why did i get into this?

you cant give faith to someone.

look, you can go back to your lets prove god false by sciense post but just ponder...

How did the earth comeinto existence perfectly the right distance from the sun, how
did it all just come together. how does our planet stay away from massive destruction
from comets??

freemason, you may want to look for another source other than the "skeptic" friends network who you harshness towards
god because they hate god. they explain in a harsh lying way. Obviously god will never let man fully
understaand by science.

I guess to you after we die theres nothing left huh?

your life is meaningless, you can do what you want without regard. this is it.

wow, this world stinks. its full of, full of nonbelievers.

what are you gonna do when stuff starts happening that will devistate you and me??

who will you turn to?

SFN?

Read my stuff to watch for in the future and just hold onto that info even if you
think its crap.

peace.

Truth...

I'm not assailing your general beliefs. However, Kent Hovind (and many others like him) are taking advantage of your beliefs and your emotional investment in them. He is fabricating information and lies specifically tailored to play to your emotionally charged beliefs. Then, without considering the authenticity of the information, you (and others like you) continue the conspiracy by spreading the lies... becoming party to a larger lie.

Tell me, if you will, in your opinion, which of these is the "more evil"?

1- A con artist (Hovind) taking advantage of your beliefs through lies and deceit.

2- We who support evolution who rely on the data we see, not fabricate.


I really don't want to drag this discussion into your personal experiences with miracles. While for you I'm sure that was a wonderful experience, for the purpose of this discussion, it's something that should be kept aside.


Let's get back to people such as Hovind who are giving you lies about evolution. If they are creating false information, what do you believe their motives to be? Perhaps these people fear that evolution science has merit and as such, presents a threat to their own beliefs. If this is the case, we can surmise their faith is not strong, since they must lie through a charade of strong faith.


What do you think?

science is no threat. you and i know its not perfect. nor ever
will be.

it threats the theist because their faith is weak and have a "buisness" in God.

get it.

Im very different then them. i really have seen stuff nobody can explain.


But one thing you said thats wrong. evolutionist do fabricate. alot.

so do theist who are not 100% firm in faith.

Just like evolutionist fabricate who do not want god to be revealed or proved, thus they
find every way possible to disprove him by ""fabricating""

both sides do fabricating and both will reap judgement for doing so.

to tell you the truth, i did not study that link 100 percent, but the response that freemaosn
has has some falsehood to it and does not change my faith even 1 percent.

I believe the drive to fabricate for creationist are their buisness in god, and for evolutionist is
their not wanting god to be proved.

peace.

Originally posted by Truth
I believe the drive to fabricate for creationist are their buisness in god, and for evolutionist is
their not wanting god to be proved.

Don't assume scientists who are studying evolution don't believe in god. One of the most respected Christian colleges teaches biologic evolution: www.wheaton.edu... . These kids at Wheaton are discovering the misinformation of their upbringing, and have some serious issues with their beliefs (some have even said they feel betrayed). Here we have stout creationists, examining the fossil and genetic record on their own, learning science, and coming to the conclusion there is overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution. Even to the point of defining dozens of �transitional� species creationists teach don�t exist.


Can you provide one (one for now please) example of where you believe an evolution scientist has fabricated their information/findings?

Thanks.

Hello Truth.

Thankyou for that website, it was great and I shall be continually reverting to it for reference.

Hello william.

I and maybe some others do not know exactly what controversial things Mr Kent Hovind has said. Would you please give us some examples.

True science and creationism goes together. Its the false science that decieves people.

Someone who preaches gods word or about god creating all things should not biblicly speaking make a profit of money for his work. This is wrong, Jesus or any of his diciples never recieved any money for what they said or for thier labour. The bible says that the just shall live by faith.

Stewards...

The vast number of deception and lies are pervasive throughout www.drdino.com....

For example, Hovind lumps evolution with cosmology when he asks for evolution to prove the formation of the universe and planets to satisfy his challenge. Biologic evolution cannot address such an issue. Upon this fundamental deception, he builds much of his case.

As another example, from his FAQ's: "No one knows what light is or that it always travels the same speed throughout all time, space and matter."
A lie and deception.

Like I said, there is more. Is there on in particular you have in mind?

[Edited on 1-11-2002 by William]

Ok then, this one is directed towards you Blind Follower Truth...I will pay you 1 million dollars over however much time it takes me to amass it, IF!!!!

You can answer me this.

Why believe in a selective God?

Truth said something like...

Jesus has revealed himself to me...

But you do have to PROVE it, no "because jesus saves the believers crap" I want to know why anyone should believe in a "selective god"...hmm I'll throw in another million if you can prove that God "Isn't selective".

And I do make this a binding contract as all here are witnessess!

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 2-11-2002 by FreeMason]

Truth there are not people at this site who accept evoloution as reasonable who are lying. But there are people at this site lying.

And you are lying, what it does say about your character is the same thing it would say about anyone else who is lying.

Which gives you and them something in common.

And..."Thou shalt not bear false witness (Lie) against thy neighbors..."

Does one *have* to have belief in God to deny evolution? No! The more I learn from the sciences, such as astronomy, biology, physics, etc. the more convinced I am that the existance of such things *had* to be created. The odds of life forming from lifelessness on *any* planet are literally astronomical. IMO, God started the whole thing off & just "nudged" a few small things here & a few small things there, because He already *knew* what would form from His "nudging". And He's been doing it in such an energy-economical way...By nudging instead of "forcing" things to turn out the way He wants.

By "nudging" certain specific atoms & molecules around in a certain way, He created life from His original creation of the universe (Which can explain how we were "formed from the Earth"). He has probably directed more energy to create the "obvious miracles" within the sight of men than He did to actually create humans...But for Him, it's still nothing more than a "nudge"; But those "nudges" that He's performed in front of people are what He's been using to guide us in the direction He wants us to go. In other words, I don't believe that God is actively *controlling* His creation...More like actively "nudging" us in a certain direction.

By wondering about God's creation & studying it, we're beginning (We've still got a *lot* to see yet; The scientific study of our universe is still pretty young) to see what God has put here & what He's been "nudging" around.

So who's to say that evolution isn't merely one of God's tools, using what He's already created, for making another creation (us)?

If you read enough about Eienstein, he came up with his most brilliant theories in physics when he would just sit back & ask himself, "If I were God, how would I put the universe together?"


[Edited on 2-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

moderate evolution is possible.

I have a problem with the one who says we evolved from apes. that
is pure wrong.

again moderate evolution is possible, but one form does not change
completely into another.

freemason do i need to "prove" my god is the only one??

are you the one who i know is god?

I do not need to prove anything to you. I have seen and witnessed miracles of jesus
that you will not understand and will atack soon as i post them.

At the judgement seat you will witness my private life and how i know this is true.

peace.

Originally posted by Truth freemason do i need to "prove" my god is the only one??

This statement is totally irrelavent; You have yourself stated that God isn't interested in providing proof because it denys faith. Even this makes no sense, because my faith would only grow if I had some concrete proof of God's existance because I would then *know* that my faith was never founded on "coincidence". No, miracles are *not* proof...They are an *indication*. Therefore, how would you propose to *prove* the existance of God? See, such an attempt would only be irrelavent under the current circumstances.

Originally posted by Truth...and will atack soon as i post them.

Did you actually mean to use the word "attach" instead of "atack"? In the word you actually *used*, you're only one letter shy of "attack". Please be a bit more precise in your use of words...Slow down your typing enough that you can be more accurate with your words; Whoever is interested in discussing anything with you in a reasonable manner will be patient enough for you to make your meaning more clear. Since words are the only means of communication here, they should be chosen carefully. Ambiguity only leads to further conflict.

For instance, as I'm reading through the posts, I keep Wordpad ready to copy/paste any quotes I wish to use (This makes it a bit easier to reply to different people & different posts) & so that I can check over my typing before I actually make a new post of my own. Granted, a few mistakes still slip through, but then I can always edit my own posts afterwards...

Argus is just the cutest Pug!! And the red sweater shows he's up on style and fashion! I bet he's smart as a whip too!!!
Oh yes---evolution and creation.
They both took place.
There was a report about the DNA and Gemome (sp?) identification. Long Story short---there has been an unseen hand that gave "humans" their "humaness". They haven't identified where it came from but all the evidence points to some genetic altering. Evolution took place happened in all other species naturally.
God knows His job and will use whatever He pleases to get that job done!! He's not bound by our thinking!! LOL Thank God!!!! That's why we're in the mess we're in right now. Being bound up by our own thinking!! LOL
Love that Pug!!!!!!

Argus appreciates the comments.

My take on the "outside hand" spin is from creationists looking for an explanation.

There are hundreds of cases of species with significant genetic leaps in the genome. It usually means one (or short series) important mutation took hold quickly... nothing more.