Is the body a temple for the soul, or prison for the spirit?

Volatile,

Thanks for the story of Siddarth. It had been a while since I had read it and could not recollect the instances which transformed him.

Rgds

K23

For certain is death for the born
And certain birth for the dead;
Therefore over the inevitable
Thou shoudst not grieve.
- from the Bhagavad Gita

Death is only the beginning. My Mummy told me so.

Salvation through the Word, or Nirvana through enlightenment?

Do all roads lead to "Rome"?

Pull me into shallow water before I get too deep...


[edit on 29-4-2006 by BrokenArrow]

[edit on 29-4-2006 by BrokenArrow]

Nirvana is enlightenment :/

Btw. Did you smoke bong a few minutes ago?

Originally posted by point
I have heard the popular saying, "The body is the temple for the soul" many times.
Is it really?
To me, it appears to be more of a prison for the spirit.
For starters, it's bound by gravity to the earth. This can be compared to a bird being placed in a cage for its whole life.
The very fact that most people cannot conciously leave their body whenever they choose points to it's prison like qualities.

Even when astral travelling many report the exstence of the 'silver chord'
that connects the astral body to the physical body.
This could be seen as an elastic 'ball and chain' that can be yanked at the behest of the body.

When ones body is severely injured or stricken by disease and permanently disabled the prison-like qualities are further enhanced.

[edit on 22-4-2006 by point]

[edit on 22-4-2006 by point]

Of most living fruitful beings there seems to be a body with which inside resides a seed of all its make and kind.Most of the time according to that kind a male or female.Even though the body fades away or is consumed by the hunger of another the promise of the seed within gives Hope to becoming a greater creature than what that creature may now be.For an apple it would be a tree for us like the shining of the stars of God Forever.

I would like to thank everyone that shared a little of the story of Buddha, it always makes me smile.

Knowledge I do believe along the same lines as you, but I do not see my body as a prison. It always help me to remember what my belief system is, and that is that it is a school or a temple(which better suites the person) that we have chosen to come to this plane of existence to learn more to reach that higher level. I think we more less wrote the story of ourlives before we got here, we gave ourselves many different roads to take, so that there could be many differents ways in which we learn and outcomes.

This always helps me so I don't have to get so mad that life sucks, because in a way it is my fault and no one elses.


blessings to all
Cortara

The body sure does put limitations on things. I sometimes think of the way it really isn't an ideal situation. We get maybe a 100 years or less to live, some of us go past 100, but then the body goes through a death, which can be unpleasant, and people are sad about it. Why couldn't our bodies just go "poof" and disappear when the time is up. I kind of think of it as a trap. Here we are immortal as spiritual beings yet we are on this earth, in a body that is only a spec (as far as age) compared to the age of the universe.

But, these are the conditions we are living with. Treat this life as a game, and try not to make everything serious. Have fun with it, and make the game of life better. There are plenty of great things to experience.

Troy

@Cybertroy

What makes you think death is unpleasant?

Cybertroy,

Some good points raised.

The birth and rebirth cycle is not in our hands. It is chosen by God. He has given you what he thinks we deserve. It depends on our past deeds. Karma as i have mentioned in my previous post. The same goes with the age of our body. Some individuals live to 100 whereas some live to 50. This is given to us by God. Both birth and death are defined by God before we are born. A person who lives till 100 years for example could be because of past bad deeds which he may have to suffer before he can move ahead or it could be because in a previous life his life was cut short due to some unfortunate accident and he is given this time span by God to justify his existence. Only God could answer that question.

The only thing we could do as an individual is to find the road to God. God decides our birth and death however what we do in the time span that is given is dependent on us. Let me give you an example to justify my statement. God never puts down for an individual that he will be a smoker or not. It is our choice to do so. At the end it is us who suffer the pains of our choice. It is the choice variability which God gives us. [Guys please dnt nail me on the smoking example, i am not a promoter for cig banning and am not being paid to do so. I am just trying to explain the point of choice.] Whatever we do, we must pay our dues here on earth prior to our journey to God kingdom for every.

Cybertroy,

In the above note I may have mentioned, "you" or "your" The reason for this was to use yourself as a point of reference to explain. At no time am i refering directly to you but as mentioned using it as a reference to explain. If you have been offended due to this, I would like to apologise and will endure in the future, to avoid referencing.

The information from which I am putting down my statments, as mentioned before is based mostly on Hindu scriptures and hence I am not claiming them to be the sole authority in the diversified field of religon and belief.

The debate is open to all...

Cheers

Knowledge23

Cybertroy,

On the point of death, its a different debate. From what I understand, it again goes back to the deeds we do during our life time. Let me state an example. A person, for example who has massive burns to his body, and his chances of living is very spare, then, there are two factors which i would consider. Either the person can feel the pain or he cannot. If he can feel the pain, it is because of the deeds of this or a previous life. If he cannot than he suffered the deed because of his past deed or present but he has done good hence God has spared him from the suffering. The point does arise due to an accident or someone else doing so. In such an instance irrespective if a person suffers or not he'll be given grace from God. There is no definite proof to what i am saying so dnt take it to be an authoritive statment but what i have comprehend, which could be challenged.

There have been instance where people die in their sleep. It is a painless death, it is due to their good deeds that they are freed from the pain of death. But this cannot be defined as good karma. Only God can judge that.

There have been and there will be great souls born on this earth. Some great individuals though not sages, like Martin Luther King had good in his heart and he was working for the good of the community. He was shot dead. Was it painful? My presumption would be yes. Mahatma Gandhi, who died with no wealth or land, helped his country achieve freedom. He was termed a Mahatma [Great Soul]. He was shot by Narautum Godsen. Gandhi had the good of his people and served his country. Did he undergo pain when he was shot? My presumption again yes. He did utter the name of God while he was dying."Hey Ram" 3 times were the words he said. Christ suffered physical pain for us. He did not have to do so, but he bore the burden of all the sins, so that we could go to God through Him. Did he want such a painful death?

From what I understand, at ones death bed, if the name of God is said, He forgives us and take us to His Kingdom. There is a story in Hindu scriptures about a cruel man who had done a lot of bad deeds in his life. When he was dying he was under alot of pain. He could see the soldiers of Yama [king of demons] come towards him. He's soul was being dragged from his physical body by these demons. At that instance he uttered the name of God. God's angels came in a white chariot and freed his soul from the demons. The moral from this was that even at our death bed if we realise that all our life what we have done is wrong and God is only savior He will come and save us from evil. This however doesnt mean that we may do as we like today and ask his forgiveness when we die. Since we know, we should try our best to do things which lead to His world. I dnt recollect where i have read this story, but i'll try to investigate and put a link if anyone wants to know more on the story.

It is a tough road to God and I must confess that after all this reading, i myself cannot do as per what is written. Reading is one aspect and absorbing it in ones existence is another. The holy bible writes about love and loving others like one loves themselves but it is a tough world today. I usually ask for forgiveness for my actions keeping in mind that it is Him to whom we will have to eventually reply to and hope death will be less painful.

Let me just state, there is nothing painful about death, if you obey to the ways we were meant to live in.

For example:

Not the way to live:
Smoking, drinking, drugs, stressed, violent ect. (you get the idea)

Way the live:
Drinking natural, eating natural, exercise, relaxed, at peace ect.

If you choose the walk the right path, you will live a long and good life, and your ending days are going to be gentle.

I might add; Some have birth-defective diseases. I mean they are passed on geneticly, but that is only because of their absent minded parents who take life for granted I believe.

Yet agian, maybe there is no karma

point

a prison ?

a temple ? maybe...

how about , a biological space suit
allowing us to survive here , and
interact with each other, in ways not
possible, as a spiritual being without form.

so perhaps you are a captive for a while
and maybe you will start to explore to help
yourself figure out what your task is
while you are here ?

Well for starters,

concerning death; the only person to dictate their experiences at death lately in the same light as past monks, etc... has been Timothy Leary...

Concerning the body; I've explained our body a few different ways.

One is to look at it as perhaps a piece of heavy equipment/machinery and the soul/energy or driving spirit, is the human operating the machine.

This shows us easily that the machine/equipment is not actually us, it is an extension.... a tool.

Next is to imagine ourselves(our body) as a hammer; a good, decent tool.
Our problem, through our day-to-day life is we use our tool to complete certain tasks; none of these tasks involves anything to better our soul. (Unlike when we use heavy equipment to complete a job, it benefits the person inside whether through a paycheque or maybe a building, farmland... etc..)
Its as if we are trying to decorate our hammer with beautiful jewels and the only tool we have is our hammer. It's like trying to write a message on a pencil with the same pencil.

Whether the body is a prison or not... well that just depends on how much gas and how much maintenance your heavy equipment still has left, now doesn't it.

A person's soul is their mind, will, emotions, intellect, personality. A persons spirit is that part that can relate to God. People are born with a dead spirit that can only be "born again" by placing faith in the completed work of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

The 3 body, soul and spirit go together.

the body is a prison for the soul. just think of all the things that have happened to the body while your soul is inside.

this body of mine has been through some serious hells. my mental being wants to escape and cannot until death do us part.
one thing i would love to escape from in my body is the damn voices..

is the mind the soul?
do these memories in the mind carry on to the next life?
if memories carry over into the next life then the mind is the soul..

how do you explain why good people get killed, or little innocent children that are starved to death, and die from AIDS in Africa.
you think an innocent child with AIDS did anything wrong or a child living in the ghettos of the world gets half their body shot-off with a AK-47. i know being the first children of the Lord has something to do with it,but do these innocent Black children deserve such fluke painfull deaths?
children of Africa live off land grown foods. most vegetarians...

it just comes down to how much hate the energy (beings)around has for your creator..

Originally posted by Volatile
Let me just state, there is nothing painful about death, if you obey to the ways we were meant to live in.

For example:

Not the way to live:
Smoking, drinking, drugs, stressed, violent ect. (you get the idea)

Way the live:
Drinking natural, eating natural, exercise, relaxed, at peace ect.

If you choose the walk the right path, you will live a long and good life, and your ending days are going to be gentle.

I might add; Some have birth-defective diseases. I mean they are passed on geneticly, but that is only because of their absent minded parents who take life for granted I believe.

Yet agian, maybe there is no karma

the body initianally was a temple for the soul until ET found earth and turn the body into a prison. everything good Jesus created ET turns it to sh*t..

Back to the topic, If the physical body is a prison what did your spirit do wrong to deserve such a punishment?
Think about it.

Originally posted by arawak420
how do you explain why good people get killed, or little innocent children that are starved to death, and die from AIDS in Africa.
you think an innocent child with AIDS did anything wrong or a child living in the ghettos of the world gets half their body shot-off with a AK-47. i know being the first children of the Lord has something to do with it,but do these innocent Black children deserve such fluke painfull deaths?
children of Africa live off land grown foods. most vegetarians...

Good people getting killed means, they were killed by someone of sin (No... Not refering to bible cr'p).
Little innocent children? pfft, nobody is innocent unless they prove overwise, I don't see them doing anything to themselves as in 'spirit' or 'soul' other than trying to keep their body alive, and yet agian; no, you don't have to read books about spirituality to experience stuff like meditation.
If a person dies from AIDS, its because the echo that have traveled across the world. Disease depends on what happens in the world... Have you never wondered how the world's population is remained in check?

And how so did the child end up in a ghetto huh? Enlighten me. Before you answer, you might as well look into the child's past? As well as the past of it's parents? And so who killed the child with an AK-47 hum?

Beings a child of the Lord has NOTHING to do with how you live on the world, the problem with most of you people, are that you rely on God to help you through your most troubled times, its a like weakness you people have, and in the end you'll find that you have not gained any sort of strength from it that you claim, but more or less become addicted to the help.

One thing you have to remember is that nobody is innocent, because everything escalates throughout the world. For example, even if a person in Africa burns alot of CO2, it affects the entire world, that is also what happens around the African societies. One more thing you have to remember, is that almost the entire Africa is based on corrupt governments that shoots up its own people. But who fights back? No-one. Who helps each other? No-one. Innocent? No.

[edit on 5-5-2006 by Volatile]

Originally posted by arawak420
how do you explain why good people get killed, or little innocent children that are starved to death, and die from AIDS in Africa.

When sin entered mankind through Adam and Eve's disobedience the rest of creation also entered a fallen state. This explains wars, bad weather, disease etc.

We are experiencing what a world that rejects God is like. It won't stay like this forever.