On US and the Alignment with Isreal....

didnt know if this was the proper place to post this... and im not sure if this topic has been a topic before so forgive me if ive done wrong here... ive searched and couldnt find much.


im curious as to the big question here...

Whats with Americas tie to Isreal? Is it biblical? I know there are many specific reasons to this tie... but whats the BIG reason? The deeper one? I mean this tie is pretty damn strong... ive heard that Isreal pretty much rules the world thru proxy... but im not to sure about that. America funds Isreal... but i know it cant be all about democracy in an undemocratic area. Or is it?


Im pretty much not versed in this arena... so feel free to SCHOOL me... in a good way.

The main reason is that we believe in the same God.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The main reason is that we believe in the same God.

Which is also the same God as in the Islamic faith. So I don't think your reply is reason enough.



[edit on 2006/4/22 by McGrude]

thnx for the replies man.


well from my understanding-belief....

Judaism-Christianity and Islam have a central core element that by definition thru study would tell you that the gods are different.

Christianty holds that Jesus is equal to God. in Judaism and Islam this is blasphamous.


If Jesus is God in christianity and he is not God in Judaism or Islam then what we have here is a different God. Thats my understanding. I know that thru history the religions pretty much influenced each other.. particulary Judaism and Christianity.. one springing out of the other... but on the basis of the Jesus thing... that pretty much tells us that these folks are worshiping different God/s or gods. whatever.


I dont mean to get into a debate about this.... because i know everyone has a different opinon... i know some are more Plural about this. i respect that. but for the sake of this topic... lets consider that "the same God" doesnt matter.... because i dont buy that reason out of personal opinion. I guess if you do truelly believe this to me the ultimate reason you are going to have to do a pretty good job of laying out the facts on your side to persuade me otherwise... but im sure this cant happen because it comes down to personal opinion since most of the facts arent really facts but more like theoretical understandings from theological perspective.... i guess.

[edit on 22-4-2006 by krossfyter]



[edit on 22-4-2006 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by McGrude

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The main reason is that we believe in the same God.

Which is also the same God as in the Islamic faith. So I don't think your
reply is reason enough.

Sorry McGrude,

You need to do a little research. How would it be possible for the God of Abraham to declare that he would scatter Israel and then regather Israel as a nation in the last days. Then he vows to protect Israel.

How could the same God try to wipe Israel from the face of the earth? Not possible. Why is there a crescent moon on all mosques?

Christians and Jews serve the same God. The difference is that the Christians believe that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah and the Jew have rejected the Cornerstone just as the Old Testament predicts. The Jews are still looking for their Messiah.

I believe that the United State defends Israel do to the hole WW2 thing.
Watching a whole race of people get slaughtered at the hands of another plays rather well for sympathy. Furthermore Israel has a strong lobbying force in Washington D.C. To prevent any serious thought of backing out.
IMHO, the it is not beneficial for the U.S to join them selves with Israel in an alliance. Israel has no pluses and many draw backs, can anyone say suicidal bombers?

IMHO, the it is not beneficial for the U.S to join them selves with Israel in an alliance. Israel has no pluses and many draw backs, can anyone say suicidal bombers?

This might be a good reason to back Israel.

Gesesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Originally posted by Sun Matrix


This might be a good reason to back Israel.

Gesesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

ive heard this qoute used before for this.

how can i know for sure that God is talking about the nation of Isreal?... like literaly?


and if so... why would America simply on that premise alone be behind Isreal... considering how secular America is.... there is a seperation of church and state... well in theory... for the most part... i guess.

how can i know for sure that God is talking about the nation of Isreal?... like literaly?

Just read what it says.

and if so... why would America simply on that premise alone be behind Isreal...

Uh....God.

America and Israel have strong ties because Israel is a liberal democracy in the middle east that welcomes strong ties with the US. The US isn't one of those countries that can afford to throw friends away. It probably helps that there are a lot of jews in the US, and Americans aren't paranoid about them in general or hate them or think that they have horns growing out of their heads and the like.

how can i know for sure that God is talking about the nation of Isreal?...

Or even that the current state of "Israel" is the one that he'd be protecting? Afterall, according to the religious texsts, Israel would be returned to the jews through the Messiah. The Messiah didn't create the current state of Israel, unless Balfour is the messiah or something..

sun matrix
The main reason is that we believe in the same God.

psst, Jews think that jewish was a schmuck, not the messiah. The Jews and Christians worship the 'same god' just about as much as the Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the 'same god'.

How could the same God try to wipe Israel from the face of the earth? Not possible.

Christians occupied "Israel" in the past also, so whats that got to do with it?

This might be a good reason to back Israel.
quote:
Gesesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

That would be a BAD reason to support Israel, because its irrational and silly. Anytime a nation starts looking for modern policy from the writtings of goat-herders from 4 thousand years ago, they're looking for problems.

The bigger question that should be asked is how long will this relationship last with the same intensity. The overwhelming support for everything israel is not even supported by all people in the west or east, despite peoples current negative opinions of islam and muslims. And this relationship doesn't as it is now doesn't benefit the US 100 percent and probably not even Israel. The US/Mid-East divide is growing. Anyone who speaks out against the US is popular just for speaking out, Nejad may be Persian, but the Arab youths like him.

As for looking at this from the religious perspective. For those who believe all things about israel is divinely inspired, one wonders about the israeli homosexual day parades on that territory and specifically in jerusalem. Is that divinely inspire also? I looked around different webs for a response to this, but nothing came from the blind supporters.

Or even that the current state of "Israel" is the one that he'd be protecting? Afterall, according to the religious texsts, Israel would be returned to the jews through the Messiah. The Messiah didn't create the current state of Israel, unless Balfour is the messiah or something..

Maybe I need an education. Lay that verse on me will ya.

psst, Jews think that jewish was a schmuck, not the messiah. The Jews and Christians worship the 'same god' just about as much as the Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the 'same god'.

psst, Christians and Jews serve the same God as I stated.

Christians and Jews serve the same God. The difference is that the Christians believe that Jesus is the prophesied Messiah and the Jew have rejected the Cornerstone just as the Old Testament predicts. The Jews are still looking for their Messiah.

Christians occupied "Israel" in the past also, so whats that got to do with it?

If you choose to buy what they are selling at the counter, that's cool. I prefer to check what's being sold in the back room. The RCC was only an extension of the Roman empire.

That would be a BAD reason to support Israel, because its irrational and silly. Anytime a nation starts looking for modern policy from the writtings of goat-herders from 4 thousand years ago, they're looking for problems.

Actually, anytime you go against Gods word, you are looking for trouble.

Road map to peace? Divide Gods land? The U.S. is heading for trouble on that one. Four thounsand years of accurate predictions insures it.

Divide Gods “land”? I thought that God created the Earth, along with the rest of the universe.
As for suicide bombers being a good reason to become allies of Israel, you were kidding right? If the U.S. Stopped supporting Israel today, tomorrow the Arabs would stop caring about U.S. Policies for the most part. Arabs biggest beef is over the Israel Palestinian conflict. Not the U.S. position on something like Saudi Arabia.
At least thats how I see it

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

and if so... why would America simply on that premise alone be behind Isreal...

Uh....God.

how can this be given the fact that the American Governments secular position?

Originally posted by krossfyterWhats with Americas tie to Isreal? Is it biblical? I know there are many specific reasons to this tie... but whats the BIG reason? The deeper one? I mean this tie is pretty damn strong... ive heard that Isreal pretty much rules the world thru proxy... but im not to sure about that. America funds Isreal... but i know it cant be all about democracy in an undemocratic area. Or is it?

It appears to many of us that they OWN the USA, that is why they have such control over it. How that happened I don't know but it may have had something to do with the creation of the Federal Reserve Act (which was done by a sneaky move btw), for a start.

Its got a lot to do with political zionists, these people are some of the most wealthy and powerful and influencial in the world, and if anybody attacks them (on whatever front) then they pull the anti-semetic card, but these people are about as jewish as Bin Ladan deep down.

Research ' The Rothschilds' and you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

I believe that the United State defends Israel do to the hole WW2 thing.

Watching a whole race of people get slaughtered at the hands of another plays rather well for sympathy.

i agree with your analysis.
the holocaust which included european Jews automatically tweeked the Judeo-Christian morality strings of the western-world.

throw in the moral attitude of helping the under-dog, or even the good-Samaratin tale...there's a lot of emotional/moralistic issues wrapped in the western worlds 'aligning' with the modern state of Israel.

The state chose the name Israel because it pushed the allies buttons,
If they would have called that UN mandated, British sponsered, modern state 'Zion' we'd probably have a way different 58 years of history!

~also~
imo, the Israel of today, makes a good ally because the nation can be either a Goat or Hero as far as US geopolitics and international affairs dictate...right now there's a didinfo campaign which squarely deflects the blame of all US policies in the middle-east to Israel- - -who supposedly has the worlds only super-power under some sort of hypnotic spell & dictates the US strategic policies and projections of power vs. Islam & Palestine

passing-the-buck can be a way to restart negotiations with all those anti-Israel powers

I believe the ties run deeper and longer that many may think, due to religious reason.

I found this Link to a Jewish virtual library that shows how they take the American presidents views on Israel through history.

Starting with John Adams,

I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize man than any other nation.
For I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation.

John Quincy Adams

I believe in the] rebuilding of Judea as an independent nation.

Abraham Lincoln

“by restoring them to their national home in Palestine.” Lincoln said this was “a noble dream and one shared by many Americans.”

It goes on and on with quotes from past and present Presidents on the views of israel.

The Israelis has taken all this quotes very seriously.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...



[edit on 23-4-2006 by marg6043]

Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

and if so... why would America simply on that premise alone be behind Isreal...

Uh....God.

God is backing Israel. I think it would be wise to be on Israels. side.


how can this be given the fact that the American Governments secular position?

Or even that the current state of "Israel" is the one that he'd be protecting? Afterall, according to the religious texsts, Israel would be returned to the jews through the Messiah. The Messiah didn't create the current state of Israel, unless Balfour is the messiah or something..

Nygdan

Could you post the verse where you are getting this from?