Iran gives $50million to Hamas, who in turn supports Islamic Jihad's killing of 9

Originally posted by nativeokie
In the end the criminals and devils are in charge. Nothing good will come of this. Although I used to feel sorry for the Palestinians (never justified their actions but did feel for the "regular" people) I no longer feel that way. They elected a terrorist organization to run their country. It would be like the US deciding to elect the leader of the KKK to the Presidency and all the members of congress also being Klansmen. If we did that we deserve what we get. So do they.

See, to you it would appear that way, while to them it would appear as George Washinton and our forefathers once were to us. Some US citizens and Israel see them as the Brits once saw our rebelious leaders. The same way Israelis saw the members of Irgun when they took control after killing hundreds of Brits, Jews and Arabs in the name of freedom.At least they were given a chance, where Hamas is being cut off at the knees from the onset.


Pie

I posted it on another thread but Quatar too is on-board for $50M USD. Seems folks are using this issue to choose and "firm up" sides for a "match".

Of course those that believe that all these Palestinian terrorist attacks are works of freedom fighters and the like--simply defy or resisting Israel's occupation. Yet, the Israelis are pulling back and still being hit with suicide attacks. And after this recent suicide terrorist attack, they are seemingly attempting to justify it even further.

Question: If the Palestinians are fighting Israel's occupation then there beef should be with those Israeli Jews, not Jews over the world?
Palestinian militants threaten to attack Jews abroad

Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. The issue seemingly and increasingly becomes more than mere occupation, right of return, and statehood. Don't think so, re-read the Hamas and PLO Charter. Hamas going to get around changing it anytime soon?

I would almost be willing to wager that if the Israelis were willing to apply the Arab dictum of an 'eye for an eye' and executed a Palestinian prisoner for every Israeli life taken by an act of suicide terrorist bombing, the terrorist organizations like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc would get the message sooner or later. Hmmm, I wonder what Amnesty International and the like, including the UN, would have to say about suicide terrorist bombings then?






seekerof

Again, you people run your mouths about Hamas when Israel helped fund them.

Frankly, I don't want to hear that crap. But, you will still run your mouths about Hamas and ignore this...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Again, you people run your mouths about Hamas when Israel helped fund them.

No, that is an unfounded assertion/allegation.

I do not agree with this particular author, in regards to who he says is behind the allegation, but he definately proves that Israel did not fund Hamas.

Dear M. Stehly,

I have examined the UPI wire, and I have done some research. Here is what I found.

The charge that Israel funds Hamas comes from two sources:

1) Undocumented assertions from "US intelligence."

2) The mass media, which, as we shall see, uses *itself* as a source of evidence.

Or we could say that it all comes from one source, for it is quite difficult, as you will see below, to find the place where the Establishment - including US intelligence - ends, and the mainstream media begins.

Good science and journalism rely on the dictum that 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.'

Hamas is an organization that goes around killing Israeli men, women, and children. The assertion that Israel funds its own enemy, Hamas, is quite obviously an extraordinary claim.

What is the evidence?

This UPI wire which you referred to me is reposted more than once on the web, and some people appear to think this wire is "proof" that Israel funds Hamas.

It isn't.

I shall now walk you through UPI's wire.

Read on here:
The CIA fabricated the allegation that Israel funds Hamas






seekerof

[edit on 17-4-2006 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Atomic
Boy that didn't take long. So the West won't give Hamas anymore money. Then Iran gives $50mil and the next thing you know "Boom!" they kill 9 people in Israel.

I think that iran should be invaded and occupied if it doesn't comply with the iaea and that if the israelis occupy the palestinians for the next thousands years, its all good. So I am not 'biased' in iran's favour here.
Having made that clear, there is no way that this money went to support that particular attack.

Israel was even pulling out of Palestine occupied lands. I don't know what they did recently to warrent an attack on them.
The palestinians are under occupation,they consider that justification to carry out these stupid and militarily pointless attacks.

I do not believe that Islamic Jihad and Hamas are "separate"

They're two different organizations. This is like saying that the maine militias and the virginia militas in the american revolution were the same organization, they weren't they were distinct. True, in that case, a federal authority commanded them all, but there is no such authority in palestine. THey are similar, but not the same organization. Its inaccurate to say that hamas did something when Islamic jihad is the one that did it. At least with the sinn fein and the IRA or Fatah and al-Aqsa they are the same org, but not hamas and IJ.

xphiles
but islam is a religion of PEACE

Are you kidding or something? Iran is all muslims? Some muslims are bad people, other muslims are good poeple, and the religion in general has lots of commands to control violence and only use it in certain circumstances. Only jesus and buddha advocated outright pacifism.
And, er, you do realize that anyone using war against terrorism is therefore in direct and clear and glaring violation of the commandments of jesus, no? Does that mean that christianity isn't a religion of peace, or that some christians aren't peaceful?

Souljah
But here comes the Paradox - how can you be a Victim and the Occupating Army at the same time?

When you are a civilian and some one targets you and kills you. THe yehudi soldiers can't claim any special surprise or to be off limits, but the civies certainly are.

It does not matter who fired First arrow - but who will be the First to Lay down his Sword.

Do you honestly think that the palestians would ever do this? Not until there is no more israel and they have kicked out, at least, the 'new' immigrants, ie non-ethnic israelis.

If hamas doesn't want attacks on the palestinians, ALL they have to do is sign a peace treaty. If the palestinians shut down their attacks on civilians, the yehudis will stop their attacks, and both sides can learn to trust each other, and start dismantling the occupation.

And if you want Peace you do not fire 400 artillery shells on Gaza.

?
How will not doing that bring peace? Also, what should the israelis, at this point, even look for peace? They have the upper hand, they have the land, the weapons, the money, and the allies. The palestinians waste what little ability they have on killing civilians. I mean, yeesh, at least focus on the IDF itself, that would at least start to build up some international sympathy.

code_burger
is false, and misleading, therefore it should be changed.

This is a conspiracy site. The author alleges a conspiracy.

jakomo
Correct me if I am wrong, but are not the West Bank and Gaza Strip two of the poorest places in the world?

?
So?

peruvian monk
and the Israiels won`t even speak to them

.... Hamas refuses to recognize israeli, how is israel supposed to 'talk' to them? More importantly, WHY shoudl israel talk to them? Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of....Israel. Israel should speak to them because....????? Why talk to someone who is intent on destroying you? Only if there is actually some possibility of them doing it no? But Hamas is weak, all of palestine is weak, its utterly incapable of even making a serious military threat against israel. Heck, the yehudis are building a simple wall, and thats stopping the palestinians, they're weak.

atomic
Hamas= kill Israel until we get what we want *
PIJH= kill Israel always

*p.s. what we want is to kill israel

Islamic Jihad sounds like somone complaining about a heavy mental band or rap group saying they've sold out and gone commercial because they're selling more CDs now.

"They even cut their hair man!"

\while to them it would appear as George Washinton and our forefathers once were to us.

If George Washington had lost the revolution, and decided not to fight the british army, but instead sent out assasins to kill civilians, I'd view him as a scumbag criminal and coward that should be shot on cite. If washington had used his army to round up and kills loyalist citizens, I'd say that the guy is a war criminal. He didn't. He, sensibly enough, used his Army to fight the british Army. Why don't the palestinians try using their "Army" to fight the Israeli Army, rather than the civilians???

truthseeka
Hamas when Israel helped fund them

What difference would that make anyway??? Hamas isn't the only palestinian terrorist organization. Are you saying that there are no terrorist organizations in palestine??? That they are all yehudis pretending to be terrorists and convincing the palestinians to engage in suicide attacks?

Originally posted by Seekerof
No, that is an unfounded assertion/allegation.
seekerof

Yes the great Mirror of reflection that is always righteous and always unfounded and allegatory charges are leveled against them. Like the silly little Western peace activist that got in the way of the tank and those dumb kids that went near the tank, or like the poor poor IDF Colonel 2 weeks ago on the news who was just so embarrassed and heartbroken that he could not visit the poor mentally handicapped jewish children in Great Brittain because he could not step off the plane due to the fact that he had charges of War crimes against him in that country. That poor fellow. False accusations of War Crimes are just so inconveniencing at times. He had to climb back onto his leerjet and head back home to slaughter the poor kids in Palestine again without a vacation. Poor innocent Israel always to be misaligned and so misunderstood.

Originally posted by Atomic
Iran gave $50mil to Palestine

Quatar has given $50mil also.

Palestine is run by Hamas, so who controls the money? This is like saying that America didn't invade Iraq, the Republicans invaded Iraq. The Germans didn't start WWII, the Nazis did.

I think it is good that other Arab countries step up and support their brothers. I would like the West to support Palestine too, but it's our money, and if someone in power supports blowing up non military targets or places where no one has attacked you from. Then you have a problem and bad judgement. Which means you don't get my money.

If Israel is starting to bomb innocents on purpose then you don't get my money. I don't support their "settlements" either, and I'm glad they are leaving...they should leave them all.

What other Arab nation is giving money to the Palestinians besides Qatar?

[edit on 17-4-2006 by Stunkums]

more justification to just evacuate EVERYONE from israel/palestine and nuke the entire state.

"If you can't both share the pie I'm throwing it out the window"

that's sarcasim, i really believe they can co-exist if they would just put down their blind hatrid for each other

[edit on 18-4-2006 by mrjones]

Like the US hasnt invested in the whole sale slaughter of innocent civilans...right. People that dont try to understand atleast both sides of the fence often stay on their side of the fence (isolationism).

Just look at the mexican crap, eye carumba, Theres alot of hate spewing out of some of those right wing bloggers, I got "zotted" just the other day, ugh.

funny how the other day, i read on BBC news, in a tiny, hidden, "we dont really care and assume you dont either" piece of news....that the Israelis had killed an 8yr old girl and injured the rest of her family.

Seems that this happens all the time. Seems that Isreali lives are infinitely more valuable than Palestinian lives.

Nygdan, please.

You go on running your mouth about how Hamas is pledged to destroy Israel. Then, you say "so what if Israel helped fund them, there are more terrorists in Palestine." D'oh!

It seems people will find any excuse to worship Israel. I guess god told the Israelis to help fund Hamas...I wonder why he doesn't protect them from suicide bombers and from the rest of the "bloodthirsty" Arabs. Maybe the Jews realized that they made that chosen people crap up, and that god isn't going to deflect missiles and nukes.

Seekerof:

Can you provide links to Amnesty International or other like sites that indicate that the monies that Hamas will recieve or has already recieved will go directly and solely to feeding and housing the Palestinians?

First off, why should I bother, Seeker? You will just totally deny any source I put up. You done it dozens of times before and I find it tiresome and infantile so I am not going to bother.

Funny how your double standard shines through.

Can’t Hamas, as a legal government, do whatever the hell it wants to with that money? If Iran puts no conditions on the money (much as the USA does to the billions of dollars in aid it gives to Israel), then who’s business is it to question. Not yours.

Can you prove in any way whatsoever that these monies are going to fund terror against Israel? Or is it just a knee-jerk reaction?

When you do, I will provide you oddles of links to where Hamas and Iran fund their respective terrorist operations through other like organizations and groups, Islamic Jihad being one of them.

All your articles are without by-line (as in, not affiliated with any ACTUAL news organizations), and your articles are ALL from Jewish sites (the IslamicJihad one apparently being one that only picks pro-Israel anti-Iran stories). Try a bit harder next time.

Your assumption that the monetary aid given to Hamas will go only and directly to the Palestinian people is confounded and complicated by the mere factoid that the nations that have cut off aid to the Hamas government have done so because there is no guarentee given by the Hamas government that the funds will indeed be used directly and solely for the well-being of the Palestinian people as a whole, not unless of course, you advocate terrorism and acts thereof as contributing to the well-being of the Palestinian people, because assuredly, it has proven to the contrary.

So the money can ONLY be used for food aid? Aren’t they allowed defense spending? Can they buy rifles? Landmines, maybe? Remember, they are a country under military occupation for more than 30 years… They are under the boot of a powerful military, are they not able to defend themselves? You know, the right to self-determination? Can they start to train an army to defend their territory? If the will of the people is to do so, can they not democratically do it?

Or, wait, can they only do things that don’t scare Israel? Or that Israel agrees with. Is that anything resembling freedom?

Of course those that believe that all these Palestinian terrorist attacks are works of freedom fighters and the like--simply defy or resisting Israel's occupation. Yet, the Israelis are pulling back and still being hit with suicide attacks.

They ARE freedom fighters to everyone else practically, except Zionists. They are RESISTING the illegal occupation of their country.

And as to Israel pulling back, pfah. They still continually shell Gaza, they still have checkpoint closings all the time, and the Palestinians are still under their yoke.

Do you honestly think that the palestians would ever do this? Not until there is no more israel and they have kicked out, at least, the 'new' immigrants, ie non-ethnic israelis.

Bullcrap. They’ve always said that a two-state solution would please them. It’s Israel that is afraid of the consequences. Israel alone.

I would almost be willing to wager that if the Israelis were willing to apply the Arab dictum of an 'eye for an eye' and executed a Palestinian prisoner for every Israeli life taken by an act of suicide terrorist bombing, the terrorist organizations like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc would get the message sooner or later.

Too bad Israelis have killed 4 times the amount of Palestinians than the other way around. Kind of pokes holes in your “Aggressor as Victim” complex.

But Hamas is weak, all of palestine is weak, its utterly incapable of even making a serious military threat against israel.

LOL! Yeah, they’re weak because they’ve been under MILTARY OCCUPATION for 30 years. 30 years of subjugation and humiliation. That’s why. Not because they’re Palestinian.

Because Israel is terrified of a strong, self-reliant Palestine, because Israel itself is corrupt and morally bankrupt.

Hey, don’t ask me, ask the whole non-Jewish world.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Can’t Hamas, as a legal government, do whatever the hell it wants to with that money? If Iran puts no conditions on the money (much as the USA does to the billions of dollars in aid it gives to Israel), then who’s business is it to question. Not yours.

I couldn't agree more with your assertion that Hamas is now a legal government. That being said, any legal government that openly and unabashedly promotes and supports terrorism, no matter how just and defendable the cause, should be dealt with accordingly. Intentional targeting of innocent civilians to send a political message and incite fear (or in the case of these Jordanian squatters - pure religious-based revenge) should be dealt with by the use of extreme measures.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Can you prove in any way whatsoever that these monies are going to fund terror against Israel? Or is it just a knee-jerk reaction?

Can you prove that they do not? Its amazing how people in Gaza and the West Bank have barely enough to eat, no schools to speak of, scant medical facilities...yet they never seem to run out of AK-47's, RPG's, and Qassam rockets. Indeed, the Qassam rocket seems to be to only product the Palestinians manufacture on a reliable basis.

Originally posted by Seekerof Do you honestly think that the palestians would ever do this? Not until there is no more israel and they have kicked out, at least, the 'new' immigrants, ie non-ethnic israelis.

Originally posted by Jakomo Bullcrap. They’ve always said that a two-state solution would please them. It’s Israel that is afraid of the consequences. Israel alone.

That is a load of bullcrap, and you know it. Everyone knows that Arafat had the chance to have just that, and he selfishly refused. To refresh your memory, Bill Clinton held a summit at Camp David in the summer of 2002 for Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Barak. Israel offered Arafat a Palestinian state in Gaza and 92% of the West Bank, and a capital in East Jerusalem. The biggest olive branch the Palestinians had ever seen. Arafat flatly rejected the offer without so much as an explanation and didn't even provide a counter-offer. He knew that the end of the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinains would be the end for himself, and in typical fashion for Arafat he doomed his own people to the state they are living in today. If he had accepted, by next year the Palestinans would be done with the 5-year transitional period and would be governing themselves completely.

Originally posted by Jakomo Hey, don’t ask me, ask the whole non-Jewish world.

Riiiight. Sometimes the things people say reveal their true feeling and motivations, without them even realizing it. Don't you agree?

Originally posted by Stunkums

What other Arab nation is giving money to the Palestinians besides Qatar?

[edit on 17-4-2006 by Stunkums]

Syria is raising donations also. Here is a link

Thanks for spelling Qatar right...I can't stopping those "u"s after Q thanks to my 2nd grade teacher.

They ARE freedom fighters to everyone else practically, except Zionists. They are RESISTING the illegal occupation of their country.

Since when has it been an illegal occupation? Or is that your own opinion?? Iv'e seen no official statments indicating an illegal occupation.

Your theory can be reversed, Jews lived their a 1000 years ago, their land was invaded twice, once by Romans, then by Turks. SO in reality (to your theory) the land doesn't belong to the Arabs either?!

And as to Israel pulling back, pfah. They still continually shell Gaza, they still have checkpoint closings all the time, and the Palestinians are still under their yoke.

And suicide bombers, stonings and general violence is also inflicts on Israelis!

Bullcrap. They’ve always said that a two-state solution would please them. It’s Israel that is afraid of the consequences. Israel alone.

Again, as explained above they were given the choice!

Too bad Israelis have killed 4 times the amount of Palestinians than the other way around. Kind of pokes holes in your “Aggressor as Victim” complex.

And what time frame are we talking exactly here? Look back and you will see MANY Jews were persecuted long before recent events.

Many Palestinians have no idea what they are fighting for.. just an idea. They are forced into it from being young.. they are fighting an idea.

Hey, don’t ask me, ask the whole non-Jewish world.

Oh and i'm non-Jewish and I know a hell of alot of people who think the same!!!!

Originally posted by geek101
funny how the other day, i read on BBC news, in a tiny, hidden, "we dont really care and assume you dont either" piece of news....that the Israelis had killed an 8yr old girl and injured the rest of her family.

Seems that this happens all the time. Seems that Isreali lives are infinitely more valuable than Palestinian lives.

I think you are right...in the news the Israelies do get more press when they die.

This incident with the girl is a little different depending on how you want to see it. The girl was not intentionally targeted like the bomber did to the Israeli civilians in the restruraunt. She died from shelling by Israel into an area where Palastinians had fired rockets.

Of course some will see that as being intentional, and that's up to the individual person to decide. I don't, but I don't always agree with Israel's "bring a bigger stick" attitude when they strike back after being attacked. According to some of the news reports I read, the Palastinian people were getting fed up with their militant guys firing the rockets because Israel will start shelling that area even harder.

I think the shelling needs to stop as do the rockets...send in the UN. Have some monitors watch the area of conflict and say who is starting what.

If you think I'm a sympathizer only towards Israel then you'd be wrong. I still remember watching a TV news mag and them showing Palastinians protesting and throwing rocks...no guns...just rocks and an Israeli soldier about 50 yards away shoots the guy right in the head. Boom...down...dead. That was a sick feeling to watch knowing that guy's life ended over throwing a rock. Of course I don't know the whole story, maybe these guys had been throwing rocks at civilians or had ambushed the soldiers, but I doubt it.

The sides are "firming-up". Harper of Canada says "anything", "to prevent a Nuclear-armed Iran." It'll be on the news... I saw and heard it on Global TV in Canada. I guess we'll see more of this from all sides at least until the UN gets-it-on on the 28th. Yeah, right. I don't like the situation one bit. "To pour more gasoline on the fire" I think we'll see Iran announce if they haven't already done so that they've figured out "the short-cut" in "post fuel-processing" as I mentioned in another thread. Global TV just announced a snap pole," 70% of respondents in favour of action to prevent Iran having/developing nuclear weapons."
Not good, not good by half and gettin' worse.

Victor K

[edit on 18-4-2006 by V Kaminski]

Originally posted by Knights
Since when has it been an illegal occupation? Or is that your own opinion?? Iv'e seen no official statments indicating an illegal occupation.

are you joking? Israel, who are ironically, calling for Iran to be kicked out of the UN, are themselves violating quite a few clauses of their own, including the illegal occupation of land.

list of security council resolutions

While you're at it, you might want to check out this documentary, which shows how totally biased the news is, when it comes to Israel (even banning CNN from using the word "settlement", forcing them to use "neighbourhood" instead)

(you have to register at this site, but its worth it The documentary in question is The Killing Zone:

documentaries

Originally posted by Atomic

I think the shelling needs to stop as do the rockets...send in the UN. Have some monitors watch the area of conflict and say who is starting what.

I completely agree with you. I think that civilians must indeed be getting fed up with it, because they are the ones who suffer. But isnt that always the case?
You also bring up a good point....why hasnt the UN ever been called in there? Or has it?