Why do we think evolution can't acknowledge a Creator?

I honestly try not to have my own opinion in this matter, but rather open myself up to all the opinions. That way, when I die, whomever I go to can't say I made the wrong choice.

Ummm...........sounds like God and his Tinker Toys! WTF is that????????
Why do Religious folks always have this "Convenient contrivance" when it comes to God? Like "If God appeared then we wouldn't be human anymore, it just wouldn't be the same!!!!!!!!!!!!" DUH! Like that makes any sense at all *-( Kinda like "If the Chef walks into the kitchen, then all the food will be no good ;-)


Honestly though, I'm getting real tired of this "Intelligent Design" BS. If we are going to teach it in our schools, then I believe we must also give equal time to: www.venganza.org
From all I know and understand about the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, is that if we don't give equal time, we may ALL end up in "Pasta Hell".
TommyTrouble

Ummm..so God was here before the Big Bang? I wonder what he was doing then???

What's going to happen in the near future when we fold Space and Time over on itself (see Klein Bottle, Quantum Mechanics, String Theory, Genetic Engineering etc etc.) in the 11th dimension, and form our own Universe and fill it with our own "Designed" lifeforms?????????? I wonder if we will just hide "behind the curtain" and let them ask all these silly questions? Or we be civil and talk to them??? I hope it's the latter, for their sake.
If you doubt any of what I just said, you have been reading too much of your Bible and not enough Science ;-))

If God is out there, then He, She, It, is a JERK in my book...just my humble opinion...for what it's worth. Ummmm..this may mean "Pasta Hell" for me 8-)
TommyTrouble

TommyTrouble, I hope "God" would have been doing what "he" is doing now. '' Yes, yes, Yang-Mills, Kaluza-Klein, all beautiful. What is hopeful is that our perception of God will evolve, too.
I can think of many Hells, but "Pasta Hell"? Pardon my ignorance on that. Please explain. Is it near "Marinara Hell"? If so, maybe I should grab my favorite San Giovese and pay a visit.

Desert,

Ahhh, finally, someone who reads something other than the Bible..... here....here, Desert

But, I was talking about Felix Klein who devised the bottle named after him, a one-sided closed surface which cannot be constructed in Euclidean space. It is best pictured as a cylinder looped back through itself to join with its other end. This is not a continuous surface in 3D-space as the surface cannot go through itself without a discontinuity. It is possible, however, to construct a Klein bottle in non-Euclidean space.

A Klien Bottle is a 2D Object that can only be seen in 3D space but can only exist in 4D space...hehe. Me thinks it's one of God's little tricks from his earlier days as a Magician.....LMAO. But the Kaluza-Klein theory is very sweet too, I must admit. But, at least at this point, it all boils down to String Theory, then on to the Unified Field Theory.....where upon we can manipulate Gravity and travel to all corners of the Universe and fold the fabric of space over on itself and make our own Universe's

If you doubt what I've just said.....remember.........not that long ago many learned men and women said it would be impossible to go to the moon. Now, not only can we go to the moon, we can ignite a piece of the sun right here on earth. Small people and their small minds lol.

As far as "Pasta Hell" please see this link lol: www.venganza.org... and bath in the light of the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" the true creator of all things real and unreal.....Mahahahahahahahahhaahahha

TommyTrouble

I think academics like evolution because it was a nice neat study done at a time when science was crude and they had no explanation for these questions. Sounded good and it was packaged perfectly for the schools of the era. It was adopted and has become academic dogma ever since until people fight hard enough to force those that worship this ideology to give it up. Also many academics are atheists and they only believe in what is known so that is why creationism is beyond their mental and mora comprehension.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Also many academics are atheists and they only believe in what is known so that is why creationism is beyond their mental and mora comprehension.

Believing in what is known!? Now that is crazy. Creationism isn't beyond anything, majority of scientists ignore such ideas because of it's utter stupidity and lack of physical evidence.

TommyTrouble, I laughed and laughed!! I love it! www.venganza.org... Boy, am I going to share this.
BTW you did a nice job of describing Klein bottle.

denythestatusquo

WHOA dude! Many Academics are atheists? If they are I have never met any and I have met more than my fair share! What I would say is a fair statement is that most Academics are pragmatic and would rather the facts speak for science. While they let their spirits speak to their inner self about religion.

Interesting twist on Dogma, wonder if you truly understand it's meaning? Dogma (Belief)..........Well I must admit that it does apply to science in the beginning of a scientific observation (while a scientist(s) is/are formulating their hypothesis). But that's where Scientific Dogma and Religious Dogma diverge. Since the Scientist then goes on to "Prove" his/her hypothesis by gatering the "Facts". While Religious Dogma is about "Believeing" something then trying to twist the facts to fit the belief and all the facts in the world would not sway their belief. At least that's my take on it.

Noah and the "Great Flood" is one of these Dogma's. There is overwhelming evidence that the story of Noah is a direct throwback to the Sumerian Gilgamesh myths and there is no "Scientific" evidence whatsoever to support such a Myth. Yet the Religious Dogma still perpetuates this even today.

Please go to this link and read the Gosple of the FSM and try and refute it.
www.venganza.org
I bet I can find evidence everywhere to verify it's true, using the Religious Dogma method instead of the Scientific Method :-)

I'll have to share your view of the Academic community with some I know, I do believe they will be amused

TommyTrouble

Originally posted by tommytrouble
Ummm..so God was here before the Big Bang? I wonder what he was doing then???

Hey now, be respectful of other people's beliefs. No need to laugh. Desert is entitled to believe whatever he/she wants to believe.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I think academics like evolution because it was a nice neat study done at a time when science was crude and they had no explanation for these questions.

At the time, the prevalent explanations for "these questions" were founded in religion and folklore. The theory of evolution is far from "a nice neat study" and it certainly continues to be augmented and built upon today as we continue to explore the ancient world.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Sounded good and it was packaged perfectly for the schools of the era.

It "[sounds] good" because it is a very good explanation. Perfectly viable. Contrary to your belief, evolutionary theory has faced constant controversy since the theory's beginnings.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
It was adopted and has become academic dogma ever since until people fight hard enough to force those that worship this ideology to give it up.

I've never met anyone that worshipped the theory of evolution, though Darwin and Wallace probably cared a lot about it. What is your interest in "[forcing] those that worship this ideology to give it up?" Perhaps you would better serve science and humanity by either supporting or refuting it, since it prevails as a quality explanation of those things that it explains.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Also many academics are atheists and they only believe in what is known so that is why creationism is beyond their mental and mora comprehension.

I don't think that creationism is beyond anybody's mental comprehension. It seems to be laid out pretty simply.

Zip

Which is why I very much agree with 'evolution' being taught in schools. Creationists feel threatened by this, but I don't understand why???? It has nothing to do with attempting to discredit their God.

Well, it's not really the education system's fault. Atleast imo it's not. Many people, adults and kids alike will just scoff at any "scientific" idea that might seemingly discredit their god(s). The bible to many is the infallible word for word of god. It says nothing about those satanic dinosaur bones or that evil "man came from monkeh" idea. (those were jokes btw, in case some of the religous folks failed to "get it") ...

I think the biggest problem are those who take the bible literally. Most of it is just stories, some stolen from OTHER religions as well. We already know for a fact that many religous holidays were ripped from the pagans just to make this new fangled religion seem more acceptable to them. Even just about every religous symbol in monotheism has been ripped from other religous beliefs.

In another thread, haven't even replied to it yet ... One poster stated something about one of the prophecies coming true, this being something about non-believer's. Thing is, there has been MANY non-believers for .. well, since god was born in the mind of man. You can look back through history and see many arguments against other gods being real before this new god was even born. There has always been non-believers for any religous view.

Yikes... didn't mean for this to get so long and somewhat off topic ... and I haven't even finnished reading the thread yet. Guess the topic just got my mind going lol

Originally posted by desert
To Zenlover28. As I was taught, "God" always was and always will be, so, yes, God was before the "Bang". I suppose if one were to believe that man created God, then, hmmmm, it would also follow that the Bang produced God. I should rather think that God was before the Bang, as man tends to create too many gods.
Now, re education--there is so much good science out there. (I tend towards reading nuclear physics.) But I have met educated, intelligent people who truly believe in creationism, because of a religious belief. To them, the Bible is the final word on everything; it has to be, because God said so! I hope they do not believe out of fear, perhaps fear of offending or being condemned by God or others. By not realizing the history of origin of their creation myth, they deny today's beautiful, evolving explanation. The truth shall set one free!

What you should all be asking yourselves is...

Is can energy be conscious? Fact about energy: It never depletes and never gains in mass. it can only change form. Therefore all the energy that has ever existed has always existed as far as we know. Even when you blow up an atomic bomb it does not create the energy is unleashes it. So if the energy that powers us stays with us until our capsules are dead, where does it go? Well... back to the other energy that has always existed. And that sounds a lot like (in religious terms, a soul ascending to heaven.) so basically I think what all beliefs consider god is energy (what else would god be made of?) like I said is that energy conscious? If it is I would say we are probes sent to gather info and take back to a source being that can not live / experience on this level of existence. Another question is do we get to keep who we are? Or do we become part of gods (for lack of better terms)
Borg Collective . But truly ask yourself do you think all your memories are bio, or do you think they are energy? I like to think our bio brain as a hard drive that can write script on electrical forms of energy. Kind of like a DVD burner. But that leaves me at the same question as everyone else and every other belief. Where do we go? And is there an after life. And hell yeah we evolve!


[edit on 9-5-2006 by Vision Ammunition]

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Vision Ammunition]

And stop saying "HE" I think that’s a bad way to describe a god. "It" would be better since none of us know how to begin to think of gods form. I call it energy as you already know from my last post above.

he
Pronunciation: 'hE
Function: noun
1 : a male "person" or "animal"
2 : one that is strongly masculine or has strong masculine appeal -- usually used in combination

Originally posted by Prot0n


Well, it's not really the education system's fault. Atleast imo it's not. Many people, adults and kids alike will just scoff at any "scientific" idea that might seemingly discredit their god(s).

Okay, but if you think about it from a standpoint that we are conditioned in our beliefs, then perhaps the true understanding of 'evolution' would begin to be understood rather than misunderstood and as generations pass it will help condition society to become more accepting of it.

God can work however He wants to. If He wants to use evolution
then He'll use evolution. If He wants to 'spot zap' people into
existence .. He can do that too.

I don't care how He made us. It doesn't much matter to me.
His hand guided our creation - either through evolution,
instant creation, or some other means we don't know about.

Considering how sloooooooooooowly He works and
how very few instant miracles we see ... evolution seems to
fit his M.O. much more than instant creation.

But whatever. He made me through the means He decided on.
However He did it doesn't change my belief in him.



[edit on 5/9/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Vision Ammunition
...
But truly ask yourself do you think all your memories are bio, or do you think they are energy? I like to think our bio brain as a hard drive that can write script on electrical forms of energy. Kind of like a DVD burner. But that leaves me at the same question as everyone else and every other belief. Where do we go? And is there an after life. And hell yeah we evolve!

I can agree with much of what you are saying regarding 'energy'. Energy is everywhere and it encompasses everything. The first law of thermodynamics that energy is neither created or destroyed. So how does it exist? If the energy in the universe was created by supernatural means was that not in fact energy just creating more energy? It all is very interesting to think about, and I certainly wish there were answers.

Where do we go when we die? I just think we cease to exist. But, i've been known to change my mind on that from time to time.

As for an after life? If energy is what makes our brain tick like a computer, well when we die we may still be connected to the energy, but we don't have the computer (brain) to process that energy. So how can we have an afterlife without a fully functioning brain to process the energy? The supernatural world is very intriguing to me in that it cannot be scientifically explained and it is the only thing that keeps me flirting with the notion that perhaps there is more to it all than just logic and science.

Originally posted by zenlover28
Okay, but if you think about it from a standpoint that we are conditioned in our beliefs, then perhaps the true understanding of 'evolution' would begin to be understood rather than misunderstood and as generations pass it will help condition society to become more accepting of it.

Conditioned in which way? For the sake of education, learning your math, geometry, some physics and other sciences, most of it has already been proven. No one is pushing evolution as fact, as it stands it's still a theory for many different reason's, but the odd kicker is, it has been proven to a point and the evidence in favor of it is numerous. Many people who follow the theory WOULD like it to be considered fact, but admit that it ISN'T. I was even taught evolution as a theory in school, not as a fact. ToE itself has even evolved, yet many people are STILL stuck on the whole natural selection issue as if thats the theory all by itself, it simply isn't. It's alot more complicated then that now, THAT'S what imo people need to learn about. People shouldn't have to be conditioned to "believe" in evolution. They *should* be able to use their brains, look at the evidence and so forth and figure it out for themselve's. Heck, a few experiments can even be done for school science projects, possibly adults with the spare time and money could perform something more elaborate to verify certain results.

It has nothing to do with conditioning or education. Conditioning isn't even needed, and if people would quit acting as if they know for a fact that their diety exist's and would instead do something abit more intelligent like actually learn more about what it is their scoffing at, then they'd see how ridiculous they sound. Like this one kid on here, keeps going on and on and on and yet has continously said that he has no desire to learn anything about it, but proceeds to use QM as if it proves his points. Honestly, it's the people that are the issue.

Originally posted by Prot0n

Honestly, it's the people that are the issue.

My point exactly. Their conditioning as far as religion, parents, education plays a factor in it whether you choose to admit it or not. And, hey i'm not pushing 'theory of evolution' as fact. But, evolution is a scientific fact. To say that evolution isn't a scientific fact is like saying gravity doesn't exist. It's the process in and of itself that is the theory which is where the 'theory of evolution' or 'theory of gravitation' come into play. Like say for instance I jump out of a plane and I fall to the ground. It's a scientific fact that I am falling to the ground because the force behind it is 'gravity', however why and how that occurs is called the "theory of gravitation". The same goes for 'evolution'. It's a fact that it occurs it just isn't a fact of how it occurs.

That is what i'm speaking about when I say it is a lack of education on the issue as far as our education system is concerned. There is a lack of understanding regarding evolution in general.

Originally posted by zenlover28

Originally posted by Vision Ammunition
...
But truly ask yourself do you think all your memories are bio, or do you think they are energy? I like to think our bio brain as a hard drive that can write script on electrical forms of energy. Kind of like a DVD burner. But that leaves me at the same question as everyone else and every other belief. Where do we go? And is there an after life. And hell yeah we evolve!

I can agree with much of what you are saying regarding 'energy'. Energy is everywhere and it encompasses everything. The first law of thermodynamics that energy is neither created or destroyed. So how does it exist? If the energy in the universe was created by supernatural means was that not in fact energy just creating more energy? It all is very interesting to think about, and I certainly wish there were answers.

Where do we go when we die? I just think we cease to exist. But, i've been known to change my mind on that from time to time.

As for an after life? If energy is what makes our brain tick like a computer, well when we die we may still be connected to the energy, but we don't have the computer (brain) to process that energy. So how can we have an afterlife without a fully functioning brain to process the energy? The supernatural world is very intriguing to me in that it cannot be scientifically explained and it is the only thing that keeps me flirting with the notion that perhaps there is more to it all than just logic and science.

I think I love you... you can think! you just got my vote

[edit on 9-5-2006 by Vision Ammunition]