Legislative Battle Predicted for Patriot II

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posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:12 PM
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Here it comes folks... the death of American personal freedoms and privacy.

I dont know that it will help much, but if you are motivated to do anything, writing your congressman would be the best thing you can do at this point...



WASHINGTON The Department of Justice needs expanded powers to fight terrorism more effectively, say Bush administration officials, but many in Congress are already rethinking the Patriot Act (search) and are hesitant to widen government powers.

The more people are informed of the Patriot Act, the more concerned they are, said Mark Warbis, a spokesman for Rep. Butch Otter, R-Idaho, (search) one of the most vocal opponents of the Patriot Act.

Bush is seeking three broad new powers in proposed legislation that critics have labeled Patriot II the ability of law enforcement to obtain administrative subpoenas without prior review by a grand jury; the ability to hold accused terrorists, like those charged with some drug crimes, without bail; and the power to make terrorist crimes that result in death eligible for the death penalty.

www.foxnews.com...




posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:31 PM
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Taken from link DR posted:

(Timothy) Lynch said it is hard to predict how the battle will shape up on Capitol Hill, but attention could shift away from the details if bad news strikes.

If theres another terrorist attack that could change the political environment immediately, he said.

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Eh, hopefully a supposed terrorist attack is not in the near future. I can see it now; Another ball and chain attached to so called freedom.


Originally posted by dragonrider
I dont know that it will help much, but if you are motivated to do anything, writing your congressman would be the best thing you can do at this point...


Great advice, DR--Although it seems hopeless, we can give our best efforts to have our voices heard.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:32 PM
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hey we've known this one was coming for awhile now. hopefully, and I pray, it will get shot down. I just hope another "attack" doesnt happen so they can say "ohh look..we told you so...you better give us your freedoms, we told you if you didnt give us your freedoms this was going to happen!"



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:33 PM
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I would agree, there is little chance of it making a big deal. However, considering the timing of this coming up, and the current tensions with OPEC and Russia at the moment, I have a very strong feeling that another 911 is in the wings.

The entire plan is to have the thing up for debate about the time there is another 911, which will generate enough public panic and paranoia that the people will agree to damn near anything during the heat of the moment.

We should get as much vocal opposition up and in the congressional view as we can before this takes place.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:38 PM
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This may not seem to be related, but try this out:

Recent sightings of Saddam are played up... note timing to Patriot II? As Patriot II gets underway, a 911 style attack occurs... CIA tracks Saddam to, oh say, Saudi Arabia..

Kill 2 birds with one stone. An attack, giving us an excuse to pass Patriot II. Also, Saddam ducking into Saudi giving the US reason to invade.




BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Military intelligence has reported recent, "credible" sightings of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in a large area north of Baghdad, a U.S. Army spokeswoman said Monday.

If "there is credible information on Saddam, obviously we're going to take action," said Maj. Josslyn Aberle of the Army's 4th Infantry Division.

Intelligence on the toppled Iraqi dictator comes from various sources, Aberle said, including the kind of "human intelligence" that led U.S. forces to Saddam's missing sons, Uday and Qusay Hussein, in July.

www.cnn.com...



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:39 PM
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Patriot Act alone is enough to make any freedom loving individual shiver. Here's an article which covers many of the major points of these acts

www.alternet.org...

[Edited on 13-10-2003 by Grommer]



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:39 PM
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just think how convient another terrorist attack would be about now??? Ive been ranting about htis but watch there will be one within a month of the election. And with that repulicans will win more in the legilature and get the presidency. And then patriot act 2 will come about and boom say goodbye ot the supreme court and checks and balances. The end is near



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:40 PM
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for hell's sake, why in the world is this totally playing out like 1984?? Saddam and Osama are just like Mr. Goldstein ...this is just extremely creepy



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by Quicksilver
just think how convient another terrorist attack would be about now??? Ive been ranting about htis but watch there will be one within a month of the election. And with that repulicans will win more in the legilature and get the presidency. And then patriot act 2 will come about and boom say goodbye ot the supreme court and checks and balances. The end is near


Here here!

Like I said, write your congressmen NOW, and do it a lot, and be very very vocal about your opposition to Patriot II.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:43 PM
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there is hope though, there's roughly over 200 citys that have completely voted out the PA being enforced in their town. What little power is left to the people we must use, and use it now.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Grommer
there is hope though, there's roughly over 200 citys that have completely voted out the PA being enforced in their town. What little power is left to the people we must use, and use it now.


My city was one of the ones that voted the PA out. However, that is nothing more than a show stance at best. In the event that federal agencies take actions under the auspices of the Patriot Act, they rarely if ever require cooperation from local law enforcement, and have indicated in these cities they will be happy to completely circumvent local authorities.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:51 PM
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1. Go to www.usps.com... type in your address (or use a different one) and zip code to get your zip code+4

3. Go to www.visi.com... type in that zip code. Click on the people that pop up and write down their mailing addresses. You can call them or mail out a letter saying that you oppose the PA2.

If you do this you'll have made a difference, have no doubt. For example, if citizen letters were monitored and a lot of people wrote opposing the PA2 than they might call off attacks...

[Edited on 13-10-2003 by ktprktpr]



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 12:54 PM
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If you do this you'll have made a difference, have no doubt. For example, if citizen letters were monitored and a lot of people wrote opposing the PA2 than they might call off attacks...

Also, discussion such as we are having here, has an effect, especially since this website is being monitored by intel agencies.

Keep talking about it, especially with predictions, after analyzing real-world current events, and they may indeed have to call them off, as so many people see whats happening...



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 01:00 PM
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Even if we did predict something going off of documented sources, think of what people would say about us. We are posting on a "conspiracy site" you know? If there were something to happen that we had predicted, would we be able to actually change anything?? Do you really think we have an impact on these kinds of things? There are people out there who have predicted 911 (including Alex Jones), but the it still happened. I would love it if we could hold something off for awhile, but it is hard to hold of the inevitable. Sorry for being such a pessemist, but I dont know if we saw something coming we could actually do anything about it.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 01:53 PM
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Want to get some ktpr points? Of course you do!

copy my letter, address it to the correct representative and sign it with your name. Have a nice day.

------------------------

To the Esteemed Honorable [Congressperson],

There are many critics of the Patriot Act, have no doubt. I find that my friends have one of two reactions to the Patriot Act:

1)They haven't heard of it, or

2)If they have, they don't like it.

The fact that Mr. Ashcroft has to embark on a Patriot Act national tour to soothe concerns is damaging in of itself. To assume that Patriot Act has defended America from Terrorism is specious reasoning: No proof of its effectiveness has been given to our Nation, the very people it's supposed to defend. In fact, just recently, Ashcroft admitted that the Act was being used against our Nation. Now, please, think upon that for a moment.

It has recently come to my attention that the Victory Act (or Patriot Act 2) is being "marketed" by the Bush Administration. And here is where I must make my voice heard:

Make no mistake: Explicitly, a failure to protect this Nation does not reveal or indicate in any way, whatsoever, the need for a more powerful act. The Patriot Act I is the most powerful piece of legislation because it circumvents the Constitution of the United States. And therefore any failure to protect this Nation rests solely upon the DHS, FBI and the CIA.

Freedom is protected by exercising it, not restricting it. If America is attacked before Bush's re-election I urge you to remember this and vote nay for the Victory Act. By your vote the Nation will know who in Congress are true Americans.

God Bless and Sincerely,


[Your Name Here]

-------------------------------------------------------



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 02:10 PM
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I'll write a Congressman, but I doubt it will do much good. When this disasterpiece gets passed, I'm leaving the #ing country. the USA PATRIOT act was enough of a smack in the face for the citizens of this country to tolerate, anything that further divides a citizen from their personal rights is an open invitation to revolution.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 03:35 PM
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noooooooooooooooo not another patriot



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 04:04 PM
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Things to consider when contacting your representative:

1) The likelihood that your correspondence will have any effect on the vote. You really think that 10K letters are going to change Senator Hatch's mind?

2) PA2 is evil and I would encourage everyone to contact their representatives, if they're sitting on the fence. Also, remember that the current PA act gives legislative authority to monitor those individuals that correspond with their representatives. Ever read the TOS at the whitehouse website? Ever tried to email the whitehouse? That's an interesting experience. For those that try, notice how National ID is a selectable topic?

3) Make sure you're voter registration is current, for those good reps that actually cross-ref against the rolls.

4) Fax is fastest.

5) Be coridal.



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 06:14 PM
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kukla- for point 1, I would have to say that enough letters will change a senators mind. And there's no way to see if they're sitting on the fence w/o contacting them. If you call them or mail them they still get your personal info, so why not just write a letter anyway?



posted on Oct, 13 2003 @ 07:05 PM
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A very good description of what Patriot II really means and entails for your freedoms (or former freedoms)


A Brief Analysis of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, Also Known as Patriot Act II
By Alex Jones
www.infowars.com
(Posted Feb 10, 2003)

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first Patriot Act's powers by saying that President Bush was seizing dictatorial control.

On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document consisted of a 33-page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87-page bill.


*Note: On February 10, 2003 I discovered that not only was there a house version that had been covertly brought to Hastert, but that many provisions of the now public Patriot Act II had already been introduced as pork barrel riders on Senate Bill S. 22. Dozens of subsections and even the titles of the subsections are identical to those in the House version. This is very important because it catches the Justice Department in a bald-faced lie. The Justice Department claimed that the secret legislation brought into the House was only for study, and that at this time there was no intention to try and pass it. Now upon reading S. 22, it is clear that the leadership of the Senate is fully aware of the Patriot Act II, and have passed these riders out of their committees into the full bill. I spent two hours scanning through S. 22 and, let me tell you, it is a nightmare for anyone who loves liberty. It even contains the Our Lady of Peace Act that registers all gun owners. It bans the private sale of all firearms, creates a Federal ballistics database, and much more.

There are other bills in the Senate that grant the Federal government sweeping powers. S.45 states in section one that the office for State and local government coordination for Homeland Security will no longer just oversee, but that now local cities critical functions will be headed by a Federal director. On Tuesday, February 11th, we noted a story in The Times-Picayune with the headline: Nagin announces major overhaul of City Hall --New Homeland Security office to oversee cops, firemen, emergency agency. The Federal power-grab taking place is widespread and all Americans must mobilize to resist it.

Another interesting bill is S. 16. S. 16 is a smorgasbord of Federal funding and control over local police departments and needs to be examined closely.

www.infowars.com...





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