What it wasnt., page 1
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Topic started on 30-3-2006 @ 05:52 PM by Tasketo
The offical story as to why the WTCs collapsed is:

1. The airplane impact with damage to the columns.
2. The ensuing fire with loss of steel strength and distortion.

Ok. Break it down.


1. The airplane impact with damage to the columns.


The early news reports noted how well the towers withstood the initial impact of the aircraft; however, when one recognizes that the buildings had more than 1,000 times the mass of the aircraft and had been designed to resist steady wind loads of 30 times the weight of the aircraft, this ability to withstand the initial impact is hardly surprising. Furthermore, since there was no significant wind on September 11, the outer perimeter columns were only stressed before the impact to around 1/3 of their 200 MPa design allowable.

The only individual metal component of the aircraft that is comparable in strength to the box perimeter columns of the WTC is the keel beam at the bottom of the aircraft fuselage. While the aircraft impact undoubtedly destroyed several columns in the WTC perimeter wall, the number of columns lost on the initial impact was not large and the loads were shifted to remaining columns in this highly redundant structure. Of equal or even greater significance during this initial impact was the explosion when 90,000 L gallons of jet fuel, comprising nearly 1/3 of the aircraft’s weight, ignited. The ensuing fire was clearly the principal cause of the collapse. Not the impact of the plane.
Link


Can we all agree that it wasnt the impact of plane that caused the collapse? Everyone stop, think it over... Read it again. It had to be the fire right?

2. The ensuing fire with loss of steel strength and distortion.


Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same, but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were 90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.Link


FACT
The maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires (jet fuel) burning in pure oxygen is 3,200°C.

FACT
The maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires (jet fuel) burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating is 825ºC.

FACT
The melting point of typical structural steel is 1510ºC .

It was impossible for the plane crash and the jet fuel to bring down the towers. SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE

Then what did? I dont know. All I know is what it wasnt.



[edit on 30-3-2006 by Tasketo]


reply posted on 30-3-2006 @ 06:09 PM by Stateofgrace
The piece does not say that the steel melted.


It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient, by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day, was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650°C fire.




The additional problem was distortion of the steel in the fire. The temperature of the fire was not uniform everywhere, and the temperature on the outside of the box columns was clearly lower than on the side facing the fire. The temperature along the 18 m long joists was certainly not uniform. Given the thermal expansion of steel, a 150°C temperature difference from one location to another will produce yield-level residual stresses. This produced distortions in the slender structural steel, which resulted in buckling failures. Thus, the failure of the steel was due to two factors: loss of strength due to the temperature of the fire, and loss of structural integrity due to distortion of the steel from the non-uniform temperatures in the fire.




[edit on 30-3-2006 by Stateofgrace]



reply posted on 30-3-2006 @ 07:42 PM by Stateofgrace
Originally posted by Skibum


Incidently neither the FEMA or the NIST reports states that steel melted,


Are you sure? The "truth movement" says it does, I think its one of the pillars of their arguement.




www.physics.byu.edu...

"The government reports admit that the building fires were insufficient to melt steel beams -- then where did the molten metal come from? Metals expert Dr. Frank Gayle (working with NIST) stated:

Your gut reaction would be the jet fuel is what made the fire so very intense, a lot of people figured that's what melted the steel. Indeed it did not, the steel did not melt"


NIST determined that there was no evidence that any of the samples had reached temperatures above 600 ºC. (NIST, 2005, pp. 176-177; emphasis added.)

At any given location, the duration of [air, not steel] temperatures near 1,000oC was about 15 min to 20 min. The rest of the time, the calculated temperatures were near 500oC or below.” (NIST, 2005, p. 127, emphasis added.)

NIST contracted with Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. to conduct tests to obtain information on the fire endurance of trusses like those in the WTC towers… All four test specimens sustained the maximum design load for approximately 2 hours without collapsing.” (NIST, 2005, p. 140, emphasis added.)

Nor does NIST (or FEMA or the 9-11 Commission) even mention the molten metals found in the basements of all three buildings (WTC 1, 2 and 7).

These are from Prof Jones own theary quoting NIST. I'll find the exact chapter from the FEMA and Nist reports later but it kind of late for me just now.


From my understanding of these guys ( the schollars for truth) are adderment that the temperatures did not reach anywhere near the melting point of steel and from the source above I have tried to point out specific referances to such.
This is from Prof. Jones and it was these claims that led me to look at FEMA and NIST.

Even Prof Jones admits that the fires were not hot enough to melt the steel even though the article is called "Molten metal, flowing and in pools, on 9/11/2001"

ehmmm must have been some else..........maybe loss of strenght.
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