Teen charged with felony for e-mails threatening Bush

Originally posted by dgtempe
What precisely was the threat???

If you read my posts in this thread, you'll find that:

The kid did not threaten the president in ANY way.
The very veiled threat he made toward the school didn't even imply action toward people. He probably said he wished the school would burn down or something.

Source
Although police said it appears the teen also made a very veiled threat toward a school in general, "the threat in no way implied any action directed toward the students or faculty at Ockerman Middle School,"

And he was arrested and charged with a felony (terroristic threat) and faces up to 5 years in prison.

And of course, they won't release that email so we can judge for ourselves. They don't want us to form our own opinion. They'll tell us what to think, thank you very much!

Thank you BH. I'm telling you, this is getting REAL ugly.

Its the mindset nowadays. Unbeleivable. :shk:

Whatever the kid put in those E-mails was considered enough of a threat--veiled or not--that it was deemed worth investigating, including looking inside the house to see if there were means to carry it out. Looking inside the house required a search warrant and getting one required someone to certify that what was sent was a felony if it was acted upon. Therefore the kid had to be charged with a felony.

Seeing as how the kid is 13 he will not get a permanent record--even if he is found guilty. He will be punished in some way, but the entire incident will be sealed and not available to the public. When he turns 18 the entire thing will be wiped from his record as if it never happened.

Everyone seems to be concentrating on the kid, but what about the parents? If anyone needs caneing it's them.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


And he was arrested and charged with a felony (terroristic threat) and faces up to 5 years in prison.

And of course, they won't release that email so we can judge for ourselves. They don't want us to form our own opinion. They'll tell us what to think, thank you very much!

Originaly posted by dgttempe
Its the mindset nowadays. Unbeleivable.

This is part of what is so frightening about what this country, and probably the world is coming to. The fact that in more and more instances, the "powers that be" are calling all the shots. They say, and the majority of Americans do. And it seems as if they just do (or not do) something because the Government Said..... no questions asked. It has already spread to what to eat, what to feed our kids, I recently found out that you can't even look at a prospective apartment to rent without first showing ID - and it must be Government Issued ID!

An American Citizen is arrested (never mind his age) as a "terrorist", for writing a letter that is kept secret from the public, and if convicted as a terrorist, most people will for the rest of that kid's life, consider him so without even knowing the true circumstances. It will most likely be difficult for him to get a good education, a good job, he could wind up in a position where he won't be allowed to vote, or perhaps not be able to rent an apartment or obtain a mortgage.

And most of this will be based on something he wrote at the age of 13 that was declaired a "terrorist move" and none of the ones denying him his rights will really even know what that letter exactly consisted of.

Of course I hope it won't really be that hard for him, these are just what I can visualize happening to him down the road, due to the fact that more and more, the government is telling people what to do, what not to do without even providing a reason, and the sad fact that the majority of citizens don't seem to even question. They just go, "O.K."

Cyberkat,

Nobody questions anything because it takes time and effort on their parts.

Americans (including all who reside here) are lazy and not too bright.

The fact is if everyone revolted, we could change things. But we're too busy posting, working, shopping and going out to dinner and everything else just rolls off our backs.

Its precisely what the government knows. They know how to work us, and one way is to continue arresting so called terrorists, having the occasional bag left at the steps of the Capitol building, and continuing their never ending quest to instill fear in all of us. The more fear, the more subdued we obviously become.

Actually, its all pure genious. think about it. They know HOW we will react and play it up anytime they can and guess what? It works.

And the front man is someone who comes through as a goof ball. Thats sheer genious too.

And of course, they won't release that email so we can judge for ourselves. They don't want us to form our own opinion. They'll tell us what to think, thank you very much!

Umm.. who made you judge and jury? Your or my opinion has no value or bearing on a court decision, if one is reached. If this goes to court the people who are charged with determining the case aka judge and jury will have all the evidence there is, you on the other hand are not entitled to it.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Umm.. who made you judge and jury?

I believe it was Thomas Crowne...

Seriously, though, I don't want to be judge or jury, I simply want the facts so I can form my own opinion. I'm entitled to have an opinion.

Unlike some, I don't just trust the authorities to automatically do the right thing. I've seen the authorities beat up on and even kill innocent people. They don't AUTOMATICALLY deserve my trust. And they dont have it.

Seriously, though, I don't want to be judge or jury, I simply want the facts so I can form my own opinion. I'm entitled to have an opinion.

Yes you are entitled to an opinion however do you think your opining should have any value in the court of law? Also, while you may be entitled to an opinion the authorities are not required to release all the information/evidence pertaining to this case to the public.

[edit on 2-4-2006 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by CyberKat
And most of this will be based on something he wrote at the age of 13 that was declaired a "terrorist move" and none of the ones denying him his rights will really even know what that letter exactly consisted of.

Are you implying that the courts are holding the details of this investigation "secret" for some nefarious reason?

Juvenile records are sealed in many states, including Kentucky. I thought most people knew that.

One more question, CyberKat? Can you elaborate on which particular rights have been denied to the teenager? I hadn't heard that before you implied it.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by CyberKat
And most of this will be based on something he wrote at the age of 13 that was declaired a "terrorist move" and none of the ones denying him his rights will really even know what that letter exactly consisted of.

Are you implying that the courts are holding the details of this investigation "secret" for some nefarious reason?

Juvenile records are sealed in many states, including Kentucky. I thought most people knew that.

jsobecky, I am well aware that in most (if not all) states certain juvenile records are now, and have been for quite some time kept sealed.

I was implying that due to fairly recent incidents such as that guy
Padilla(sp?), a US citizen who was kept for 3 years before being charged, Gitmo, the part of the patriot act that allows for "blanket" search warrants that don't even need to have addresses and names on them.......things like that that are being done to people, regardless of the legality of them. I get the impression that when it comes to any sort of incident that even resembles something that could be labled as any sort of "act or terror", the government seems to be able to circumvent the law if they so wish. So, whatever happens to the kid unfortuaately does not have any guarantee of being exactly legal. Not that it won't, just that he will be at the mercy of the courts, who, perhaps with th exception of the High Court, are basically at the mercy of the Bush Administration. Checks and Balances are all out of whack, that is not hard to ascertain.

If I was lacking for better words, I appologize. Otherwise, I hope that this clears up the point that I was trying to make.

One more question, CyberKat? Can you elaborate on which particular rights have been denied to the teenager?

I hadn't heard that before you implied it.

After I posted that, I wondered if someone was going to question the semantics of what I wrote, and miss the point, that the kid now runs the risk of having more difficulties with the same things that other people who have never been accused of involvement with terrorist activity do with much more ease. Excuse me, I guess that the things I called "rights", are actually "priveleges" that are granted to most of us.

O.K?

//ed to add://

P.S. I never implied that any "rights" have been denied to the kid....yet. I was just speculating on what could very conceiably be lurking in his future - IMO.

[edit on 4/2/2006 by CyberKat]

Originally posted by CyberKat
I was implying that due to fairly recent incidents such as that guy
Padilla(sp?), a US citizen who was kept for 3 years before being charged, Gitmo, the part of the patriot act that allows for "blanket" search warrants that don't even need to have addresses and names on them.......things like that that are being done to people, regardless of the legality of them.

First off, CyberKat, thanks for taking the time to respond - that's becoming a rarity here on ATS.

You have a different "tolerance level" than I do regarding how certain acts should be handled. My attitude totally changed since 9/11, and I generally agree with the acts and laws passed against terrorists to the point that I refuse to give them an inch of slack. I might not have been that intolerant before 9/11, but I am now.

You are afraid of what those laws and acts will do to our individual rights, and that is a valid concern. But I myself have not seen any infringement on any of our personal rights. And if it happens, then I'll address it when that happens. I don't believe that any act or law, once passed, cannot be un-passed. In the meantime, I'll not walk on eggs to protect a terrorist's "rights". As far as I'm concerned, they are scum that want to destroy us and our way of life, so screw 'em.

We can agree to disagree, no?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yes you are entitled to an opinion however do you think your opining should have any value in the court of law?

In this particular case? No. But in the overall scheme of lawmaking, and where this country is headed as a representative democracy (or whatever label you wish to ascribe to our way of government)? Yes. My opinion does matter.

Also, while you may be entitled to an opinion the authorities are not required to release all the information/evidence pertaining to this case to the public.

No, they are not required. And I'm not saying they are. My point is that we have been told by the media that the boy didn't threaten the president and the very veiled threats he made toward the school did not indicate any action toward any people. So I'm left wondering just how terroristic his threats could have been. I'm left curious about what these threats actually were.

I do not have the trust that you apparently have in the people who are making the decisions about this kid's life.

I'm not claiming a right to know, I just want to know. The information would either add to or detract from the faith I have in the integrity of the government and law of this land that I love.

[edit on 3-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I would also love to know what the Email said, it would certainly clear things up for all of us.

I haven't heard anything concerning this lately...does anyone have anything current?

I still can't get around how utterly stupid this child was...sending an email that is even remotely threatening, or can be construed that way, is guaranteed to get a strong response from the secret service. I am fairly certain that most of us at age 13 had learned that threats tend to be greeted with unforseen responses even in the school yard, much less by the White House security folks.

Generally people who threaten are safer than those that dont. So much for Intelligence and Law Enforcement psychology profiling.

When they press charges over something like this they do it for 1 reason and 1 reason only.....to make an example.

13 year old kid??...im trying not to laff at those that are pressing charges


Secret Service Lesson 101:
Most dangerous threats to presidents and heads of state are from trained professionals with military backgrounds and inside help....not angry civilians.

Generally speaking, the successful presidential assassins haven't been trained military, or ex-military...they were disgruntled, for whatever reason, civilians.

I do agree that an example is being made of this kid, and that is unfortunate, because if he is really that stupid...he won't understand what is being done to him. Others out there that stupid won't get the point of the example either. Pointless either way.