is the US navy unbeatable???

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posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 05:59 PM
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im not sure where i found this link if it was on ATS and im repeating a thread then i apologise and mods please delete.

www.g2mil.com...

Im English but i always thought that the US navy was indefeatable and could take on almost anything and still win. This has shaken that view severly and i know almost want a full scale naval war against another large sea force just to see whether the US navy is indefeatable.

Does anyone know if the guy who wrote this is just anti US navy or if what he says is the unbaised truth?

Justin

ps i apologise for the length. i havent read all of the link but i have read most.




posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 07:34 PM
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I can't open the thread right now , but if your looking for the 'unbiased truth', your wasting your time around here. Most of these people just wrap themselves with one flag or another .



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Well, being that I am a Sailor, I'd come off as bias but I'll just give my opinion based on what we have and will have available to us in the fleet.

Currently, I do believe that the U.S Navy is damn near unstoppable based on sheer technology and battlefield technology. If I'm remember numbers correctly we currently have (12) Aircraft carriers, (22) Cruisers, (48) Destroyers, countless Submarines and our smaller Amphib. ships and Frigates. Our Destroyers are next to none and will soon be out-classed by the even more powerful DDX's. Our Aircraft carriers give us capabalities all over the world and are pretty much bases away from base so that we may easily mobilize anywhere we are really needed.

Our weapon systems are top-notch as well. Strategical, Defensive, Offensive, it doesnt matter - we've something cover all the lines. And, of course, these weapon systems and our fleet in general are operating at nearly +%100 due to our own internal intelligence and technology networks/systems (though we still rely on other branches for things, of course).

We also have one of the most elite forces, the SEALs. I'm sure you question was more based on the actual fleet but SEAL's are an essential part of the U.S Navy and I'm rather sure they are of use to the fleet when need be (boarding raids, etc. etc.). We also now have the M.S.F detachments and soon to be full-scale Naval Infantry, which I'd assume will be made up of those %60 or so percent of potential SEAL canadites that didnt gain their Tridents.

To me, the U.S Navy is the most self-reliant branch of the U.S Military. They not only have fleet capabilites but also aircraft, a special warfare community, the Marines (though not truly a part of the Navy anymore, they still operate under the D.t.o.N), technology/logistics and a bright future. The Navy is beginning to prioritize itself, making it more capable then just maritime operations.

That's my two cents.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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The US Navy is the biggest and most technologically advanced in the world, its ability to project power is also unmatched, having said that however the answer your asking for depends on some factors.
In a large blue water war the USN is pretty near unbeatable. However if you have a big and pretty decent navy you might get lucky if you manage to lure the USN in costal and brown water warfare.
What I mean by lucky is that you might destroy a few ship, however due to the sheer size of the USN and due to the capability of its system it is very hard to imagine that any other navy, no matter the circumstances, totally destroying the USN.

That's just my view of things.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 10:19 PM
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I wouldn't say they're "unbeatable" in that they DO have weaknesses. The decision to remove diesel boats from the fleet, even for training purposes is one of them, but they're not as weak as they're made out to be. I've noticed that a lot of these "unbiased, emotionally unattached papers" have some sort of agenda to push, and are written to sound as bad as possible. It's easy for either side to skew results to show what they want to show.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 10:28 PM
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"lure the USN in costal and brown water warfare."

That reminds me, in Jan. (I think.) we started up the brown water Naval force. A friend of mine actually just signed the billet and will eventually be attending the training... Now, of course, it's new so its ability to combat other forces wont be seen until a few years down the road and when it actually see's combat, or atleast combat that will test the strengths of the force.

For now, I guess we'll just rely on SWCC.

[edit on 15-3-2006 by AmenToArtillery]



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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ASCMs and SLCMs are any surface navy's weakness.As of now one can do very little to defend aganist that.



posted on Mar, 15 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
ASCMs and SLCMs are any surface navy's weakness.As of now one can do very little to defend aganist that.


You would be surprised at how competent the Aegis system is at these types of intercepts. And lets draw the "Bhramhos" cm like a gun untill its actually in production.

TO the origional question. I perused through the article and found some of it interesting but:

He does seem to take many isolated exersizes and try to build a case. Comments from USN officals seems to be taken out of context as well. If a submarine guy is making the statement its going to be biased for his point of view.

Is the USN undefeatable right now? YES YES YES. No other country has a blue water navy to take them on. They key is the carriers. They project power both offensive and defensive over a wide area. Couple that with the fact that most CBG now have submaranies attached to them and its a tough egg to crack.

Yes you could lure them into brown water, but unless the USN had total controll over the air why would they engage the enemy at such close ranges anyway?



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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I dont like to think of anything as "unbeatable", That type of thinking can be dangerous. But if I was going to bet I would put clear odds on the US Navy over any current Navy in the world.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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China is rapidly catching up to the US navy and US militarists plus Rumsfeild suggest that they may be on par with the USA in about 7 years time.

Not being buyist but I know for a fact that the British fleet has the second highest force projection in the world, plus their navy is the best trained.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Born British
China is rapidly catching up to the US navy and US militarists plus Rumsfeild suggest that they may be on par with the USA in about 7 years time.



Hmmmmmm, they would have to have multiple carriers under construction right now to be able to match that claim plus a serious rampup in SSN's etc to get there.

I would agree with you in regards to the RN. However, they may fall behind if they do not get there new carriers



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 01:18 AM
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chinas navy wont ever catch up as long as we keep building new ships. the british navy is an ok navy, you lack aircraft carriers



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Born British
China is rapidly catching up to the US navy and US militarists plus Rumsfeild suggest that they may be on par with the USA in about 7 years time.

Not being buyist but I know for a fact that the British fleet has the second highest force projection in the world, plus their navy is the best trained.


Where did you get that from? Janes which is the most respected defence know-it-all has always said China won't become a military superpower till 2020-2023.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Daedalus3
ASCMs and SLCMs are any surface navy's weakness.As of now one can do very little to defend aganist that.


You would be surprised at how competent the Aegis system is at these types of intercepts. And lets draw the "Bhramhos" cm like a gun untill its actually in production.



Lets not..

Brahmos in Production

This was 6 months ago..

I was not talking about the Brahmos in paritcular anyways..



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 08:26 AM
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Read a book called WW3 choke point, and after that... get back to me...

[edit on 16-3-2006 by Figher Master FIN]



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 09:28 AM
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Me??!

WW3 Choke Point?!
Fiction? TomClancy..?



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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every nation is beatable/every naval ship is sinkable/and every aircraft can be shot down.

hasn't history taught us this? (1 example) spanish armada was classed as 'unbeatable'.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Daedalus3
ASCMs and SLCMs are any surface navy's weakness.As of now one can do very little to defend aganist that.


You would be surprised at how competent the Aegis system is at these types of intercepts. And lets draw the "Bhramhos" cm like a gun untill its actually in production.



Lets not..

Brahmos in Production

This was 6 months ago..

I was not talking about the Brahmos in paritcular anyways..


you idiot the AEGIS has an extremely long range the aircraft shooting it would be destroyed and lets not forget the US's destroyers ahve a low observeable design like a small fishing boat or wavetop sure a non stealth ship with no aegis would be killed but not the US navy especially with the F 14's F 18E/F superhornets and the upcomingF 35C JSF. theDDX is going to be very stealthy as well and other ships will replace the carriers and battlships and subs with extremly quiet engines.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 01:41 PM
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the last `red flag` exercise against AUS , meant that the carrier wa sunk 4 times and a nuke sub was aslo `sunk`

diodon349.com...

diesel subs especially AIP ones will kill a CBG.



posted on Mar, 16 2006 @ 02:02 PM
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"A ship in the ocean is like a tank in the dessert."

First gen Kh-41 (SS-N-22 Sunburn) brings such truth to any navy vessel, much as Hellfire brough such truth to T-72s in Iraqi desert.

In modern warfare, NAVY is effective only against technologically inferior enemy, and plays the role of a political bargaining chip against a technologically advanced enemy.

It is simply a fact, that even when direct energy defense weapons will reach operational status, they will still be overcome by advanced anti-ship supersonic missiles, while defense/attack cost ratio is similar to the cost of a tank rolling through a desert, and a cost of a missile picking it off from 8k away.

US NAVY is the most powerful NAVY in the world, which only makes it the most expensive one. Its effectiveness in modern battlefield is nullified by advanced attack missiles. Considering the future of ramjet attack missiles, its intercept will be similar to an attempt of intercepting a maneuvering meteor, all while It takes only one, and you can't stop them all.

History will repeat it self as it did in WWII, when aircraft carriers put an end to the era of great battleships, as the missile will end the era of the carrier and other offensive naval vessels.

Subs are also in for trouble, as supersonic torpedo/missiles already posses the capability to swiftly reach any sub at any depth with out any chance of its escape.






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