A wall of Shame in Palestine

Israel and the Occupied Territories: The fence/wall violates human rights

Construction of the concrete wall in Abu Dis, East Jerusalem. © AI
Amnesty International believes that the construction by Israel of the fence/wall inside the Occupied Territories violates international law and is contributing to grave human rights violations.

Amnesty International believes that the construction by Israel of the fence/wall inside the Occupied Territories violates international law and is contributing to grave human rights violations.
According to the Israeli authorities the fence/wall is "a defensive measure, designed to block the passage of terrorists, weapons and explosives into the State of Israel...."

www.amnesty.ie...

Imagine- Then when we fight for our right- All we're called is terrorists.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

Maybe a big wall is what they need. The problem is where its being built.

Israel should build the wall around themselves on their own land, not around the Palestinians on their land.

Originally posted by Malichai
Maybe a big wall is what they need. The problem is where its being built.

Israel should build the wall around themselves on their own land, not around the Palestinians on their land.

I guess thats the problem. There building little villeges in our own land and we must shut our mouths up until the right time comes. There sucking it little by little as if its theres.

www.bethelaish.com...



[edit on 12-3-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

When a wall is necessary so that innocent people can be protected from the murderers, there is shame, but not on those building the wall.

By the way, I notice that you don't mention that Three Qassam rockets hit in western Negev in the last few hours. Let's see, why would a wall be needed?

I notice you don't mention a thing about how Gaza is being used as a point from which to attack Israel rather than a beginning of a life. Your Amnesty International article seems to not discuss these things either, but simply states their opinion, that Israel's need to protect its children is no good reason to build the fence.

The attacks will continue until eitehr the threat is removed or until the Muslims regain all of Israel. Your solution is what? Don't tell me handing over land does it, as we know better from watching Gaza. We also know where the two-faced crap is coming from as the Jewish Palestinians who have direct and ancient ties to the Gaza area are NOT welcomed to obtain citizenship.

Dramatically staged photos of chalk drawings and a man sitting with his head held down doesn't take away the urgent need of protection for the innocent people who are specificallt targeted by those who want no peace but only the blood of the Israelis.

As if it was theirs?
So, you are saying that the Israelis are not entitled to land? You are saying that the Jews have no ties? You are saying that unless one is an Arab Palestinian, he may leave?

If this be the case, are you saying that only those who have historic ties to the land and not immigrants from other places, may stay?

Israel’s construction of the antiterrorist security fence was undertaken due to the Palestinian Authority’s failure to fight terrorism. The fence is a defensive, temporary, and passive measure against terrorism: in those areas where the fence has already been completed, terrorism has dropped dramatically.

About 97% of the fence consists of a chain-link early warning system against terrorist infiltrations: less than 3% of the fence consists of a concrete barrier. In keeping with the rulings of Israel’s Supreme Court, in order to avoid causing unnecessary hardship to Palestinian civilians while defending the lives of Israeli civilians, Jew and Arab alike, Israel’s government decided on February 20, 2005 on the current planned route of the fence.

www.mfa.gov.il...


[edit on 12-3-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

The walls an ace idea. Keeps the murdering suicidal terror teams out of Israel and lets children go to school safely.

And no, I don't in any way shape or form feel sorry for the palestinians - they want to be treated as humans then they have to start acting like them.

Israel has come under alot of critisism over the wall, but since its start, the rate of suicide attacks has dropped massively.

Thats how you know some things effective - Attacks drop and the propaganda of the other side kicks in to get its removal. Greenham common and nukes any one? Russians were s### scared of cruise missles and organised the protests through our leftist liberals... Now its the islamic world using our liberals to complain about the wall...

Good on Israel.

I do feel sorry for the Palestinians. They have been used as pawns for political leverage for decades. They have been taught that hatred is pure and good, that murder is righteous and that suicide is honorable. They have not been given a chance to live as hopeful and free human beings. Those who have perpetuated this sick situation is not Israel, however. No, while Israel has furnished electricity and water, their "brothers" have furnished weapons and explosives belts. It is sad that this is the case, and it is sad that Israel is forced to protect her children in such a manner. What is just as sad is that the Jihadists refuse to renounce violence and give the children of both sides a chance.

As I have been reminded, these people were created in God's image, too.

The claim that most of the Palestinian land has been annexed by the West Bank barrier is highly exaggerated. A Graphic of the barrier present and future shows that a majority of the barrier is very close if not adjoining the Green line. Look at the map by Israeli Govt on the Barrier :
www.seamzone.mod.gov.il...

Moreover the West Bank Barrier is seen only as a security arrangement that would provide greater security to the Israelis with minimum inconvenience of Military raids and curfews on the Palestinians. Also the barrier is built in such a way that it can be moved easily with the majority of the wall done with Chain link fencing. Only those regions that are considered as high risk zones have the concrete Slabs that have become so infamous, this consists of a total of only 5% of the total barrier and is done to protect citizens form sniper fire and also keeping into account the topological conditions.
The Anti-Terrorist Fence, an Overview. Published by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The main reason the Israeli authority went ahead with the Barrier solution is due to the unwillingness of the Palestinian leadership to make a concerted effort towards peace in the region and thus, the "unilateral action of peace" . More over the check points and other previous infrastructure at the borders was woefully inadequate to effectively check terrorist infiltration thus the need of a proper barrier. This also has some serious benefits for the palestinians as, not only does this limit Israeli interference behind the barrier, it also provides them with a sense of a palestinian state to some extent.

As for the barrier eating into palestinian territory it is important to remember that Ariel Sharon was reluctant at first to go ahead with the barrier proposal as it would be seen as Israel giving up claim to the land. As this proposal gained greater momentum in the Lukid Party and the right wingers, apart form the military and strategic realities on the ground, Sharon was forced to consider the barrier program to check and control militancy.

The Gaza fence can be taken as an example and after the Jerico-Gaza agreement there has never been an attack by Intifada militants from Gaza on pre-1967 Israeli territory. The same is the case with the portions of wall already built, this has decreased the level of suicide bombings from this region and also decreased the attacks on Jewish cities in this region. Here is an article about the actual results obtained through the construction of the wall.
Harvard Israel Review

Even thought the Israeli govt has approved the barrier, it has still faced much local resistance regarding the inconvenience it causes to the Palestinians. The matter has been raised in the Israeli Supreme Court numerous times and the Court has succeeded in bringing a more equitable solution to the entire problem in some cases.

news.bbc.co.uk...
In June 2004 the Court ruled that a 30-km section of barrier northwest of Jerusalem imposed undue hardship on Palestinians and must be rerouted.

The Supreme Court specifically said Israel had to limit Palestinian suffering, even if that meant accepting some restrictions on its ability to defend itself. It accepted that security was the reason for building the barrier.

A second ruling in September 2005 ordered reconsideration of the route around Alfei Menashe, south of Qalqilya, where several Palestinian villages have been left stranded on the western, "Israeli" side of the fence.

At the end of the day, the blame for the barrier lies solely on the Palestinians who have continually espoused "human Rights" when it is applicable to them but have forgotten to consider these very rights of humanity when it comes to the Israelis. The constant tension in the region which is only compounded by Arab rhetoric has made such a solution unavoidable. The very attitude of an armed struggle in some vain display of bravery and pride by the palestinians has led the Israelis to make such unilateral attempts at ensuring their security. What is worrying however is the fate of the hundreds of Jewish immigrants that are settled deep within Palestinian territory that are cut off from the rest of Israel.


[edit on 12-3-2006 by IAF101]

The Fence has proven its effectiveness !

According to the data available the fence has proven that is has made some difference in stopping terrorist incursions. During the inital period after constructing the Sumerian section, the statistics show that :

The Anti-Terrorist Fence

• In Samaria (northern West Bank):
  
  
  
  1.  Between April and December 2002 (before construction of the fence), 17 suicide attacks were committed within Israel by terrorists who infiltrated from Samaria."
     
  2.  Yet in all of 2003 (after the construction of the Samaria section of the fence) there were only 5 attacks by terrorists infiltrating from Samaria."
     
  
  
  
• By contrast, in Judea (which has no fence):
  
  
  
  1.  Between April and December 2002, there were 10 suicide attacks committed by terrorists infiltrating from Judea."
     
  2.  In 2003, there were 11 attacks by suicide terrorists infiltrating from Judea."
     
  
  

From the above I think it is safe to say that the wall has certainly discouraged the terrorists if not made life difficult for them. Though the fence doesnt stand as a permanent solution, its works convincingly well as a temporary solution to the problem, till the Palestinian authority comes forward with greater conviction for peace in the region.

And with respect to the land on which the fence is constructed;

The Anti-Terrorist Fence
Land:
In building the fence, preference is given to using public land. When there is no other choice, the fence is built on private land. Even in these cases, every effort is made to avoid building on cultivated land. The private land is not expropriated from its owners, yet remains the property of the original owners, who are eligible to receive one-time compensation for its seizure, as well as annual payment for its use.

Appeal procedure against land seizure:
Upon issuance of an order regarding the seizure of land, any person affected by the fence route may submit objections. These objections are then considered, and when changes can be made without negatively impacting upon operational considerations, such changes are incorporated into the planning.
In those cases in which the objections are not accepted, compromise solutions are sought. In many cases, Israeli planners amended the route of the fence, or other aspects of the project, following discussions held with local Palestinians. If, after negotiations, the sides still cannot find a solution, the property owner may petition Israel’s High Court of Justice.

Agricultural Gates / School Passages:
Along the route of the fence, about 40 gates have been constructed, meant to ease access for farmers to their fields, and facilitate passage for students to their schools.

Again this shows that there is no malicious intent behind the Israeli fence apart from Israelis desire to protect its own citizens from terrorists. They do manage to make it as accommodative as possible for the Palestinians and in no way does the way act as a political barrier but rather as a security barrier against the more recalcitrant elements of Palestinian society. The fence also provides compensation to all those who have been effected and this construction of the fence is not without the right to appeal against it for the Palestinians. We can conclude that thought the wall imposes additional constraints on the Palestinian people it does serve an important purpose and its existence seeks to preserve a human right that is more fundamental than the right to free movement or the right to public property.
The right to exist comes before all other human rights and it this right that the wall seeks to support.


IAF

[edit on 12-3-2006 by IAF101]

Originally posted by MsPalestinian08

[edit on 12-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

That is some of Banksy's graffiti. He is a Bristolian, there are a lot of his paintings around Bristol.

www.banksy.co.uk...



I see that one every time I take the bus into Bristol.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Captain_Sensible]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I do feel sorry for the Palestinians. They have been used as pawns for political leverage for decades. They have been taught that hatred is pure and good, that murder is righteous and that suicide is honorable. They have not been given a chance to live as hopeful and free human beings. Those who have perpetuated this sick situation is not Israel, however. No, while Israel has furnished electricity and water, their "brothers" have furnished weapons and explosives belts. It is sad that this is the case, and it is sad that Israel is forced to protect her children in such a manner. What is just as sad is that the Jihadists refuse to renounce violence and give the children of both sides a chance.

As I have been reminded, these people were created in God's image, too.

Have you thought for once- What about the Palestinian's security?
The attacks - The bombs ontop of there heads.
What i seriously am trying to get is that, Why do People like urseleves are soo ignorant to understand we as a world are one race. It really bothers me when i see people with this mentality.
The tanks - Children getting killed for some ignorant world.
If this Wall is to protect The Israelis then Palestinians should build triple the size of this one and get there own security also..
I as a Palestinian do not support the suicide bombers but i do believe that we have every right to defend as every screwed up soldier in our Land [ PALESTINE] . And i believe you would do more than just kill - You would kill a person with such cruel punishments then claim " They we're terrortists when they were protecting there kids and women.
Please try to understand two sides - Dont be such an ignorant coward. It really shows the idiotic paths you take.















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Website
www.marmarita.com...


[edit on 12-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

If I was a parent I would teach my children how stupid it is to throw a stone at a tank. It goes to show the mentality of so many in the region. Maybe it would help if you did a study on how Gandhi resolved issues.

MsPalestine, since you suggest your people build a fence then why don't you do so??? The Jews have done far more for the progress of their people and the land in this region than any other group. Build your wall if you're so inclined. I'm sure you wont because then your suicide bombers would have one more object to get around on their way to meet Alah.

You should not be so quick to call others ignorant when they continue to make you look like a fool in every debate I've seen on here. I do not think this should be such a debate. I have no reason for wanting one side or the other to be proven right or wrong. I have watched, read, learned and checked out debates on here and it's a clear cut case of the Palestinians being used as pawns. This makes it very much their fault as well. They could stop allowing themselves to be used as such. Since they do not they are guilty.

I know you may not be for terrorism, but if you agree with how the Palestinians are handling (also how they have handled in past) the situation you might as well be. It would be a shame to watch a people be trampled for a while in order to gain freedom but they would gain this freedom if this took place.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, it's obvious for anyone with eyes!

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

MsPalestinian, considering that you just might have heard about Palestinian mothers hiding bombs under their babies in the carriages, exactly what are you trying to tell me with all these pictures? You know what you are telling me? Nothing. I am not 18 years old, and I know how a snapshot of those are taken for propaganda.

Make no mistake, call me or anyone else a coward or an idiot again and you are taking a break. Want to know why you are not gone now? Because you diredcted it at me rather than someone else.
I assure you, throw such rocks on this board and you will be dealt with properly

Originally posted by Mandalorianwarrior
If I was a parent I would teach my children how stupid it is to throw a stone at a tank. It goes to show the mentality of so many in the region. Maybe it would help if you did a study on how Gandhi resolved issues.

MsPalestine, since you suggest your people build a fence then why don't you do so??? The Jews have done far more for the progress of their people and the land in this region than any other group. Build your wall if you're so inclined. I'm sure you wont because then your suicide bombers would have one more object to get around on their way to meet Alah.

You should not be so quick to call others ignorant when they continue to make you look like a fool in every debate I've seen on here. I do not think this should be such a debate. I have no reason for wanting one side or the other to be proven right or wrong. I have watched, read, learned and checked out debates on here and it's a clear cut case of the Palestinians being used as pawns. This makes it very much their fault as well. They could stop allowing themselves to be used as such. Since they do not they are guilty.

I know you may not be for terrorism, but if you agree with how the Palestinians are handling (also how they have handled in past) the situation you might as well be. It would be a shame to watch a people be trampled for a while in order to gain freedom but they would gain this freedom if this took place.

WAKE UP PEOPLE, it's obvious for anyone with eyes!

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

Are you serious?
No really?
You seem as if you understand how the world plays its role in Palestine.
Do you honestly think Israelis would let us build a fence?? hahahahahahahahahaha
You must be kiddding. If we need there aproval to get to Our land [OUR LAND PALESTINE] then how do you excpect us to build a fence to protect ourselves. Don't you dare speak of how good you are and what ISrael offered its people. You don't know a damn thing about Palestinians.
I ACTUALLY LOST RESPECT FOR YOU AND I DON'T THINK YOU CARE. But oh my god........................................................ You are un-believeable..

Stupid for defending themselves?? Seriously
So now we are stupid for defending ourselves.
Am a 16 year old girl and i visit Palestine every damn year , with same crap getting spit on my face.
I was taught an EYE FOR AN EYE. A LIFE FOR A LIFE. So don't expect me to shut my mouth up here. Its enough i shut my mouth in my land but here?? Please.
We will show you what we are made up of.
Where were you before PALESTINE? hUH

You tell me....
Before you start blahhhhinggggggg your mouth up....





[edit on 12-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

[edit on 12-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

[edit on 12-3-2006 by MsPalestinian08]

EVERY time I turn around, someone's all over Israel. "Teach your kids not to throw rocks at tanks, act like humans if you want to be treated like humans." It really is disgusting, especially since Israelis run over Palestinian cribs, shoot their kids, and they're the good guys. I am so sick of Israel, not so much for what they do, but for how people worship them DESPITE what they do.

Yeah, and blatantly racist statements like the act like humans comment really disgust me too.

MsPalestinian, your quotes are a PERFECT example of how the Palestinain people, the ones killing, are such hypocrites!!!

You are a hypocrite!

"id rather die fighting for my country on my feet, then die begging for my freedom on my knees ."

"Bombing for peace is like screwing for virginity."

So if bombing for peace is like screwing for virginity, why would you rather fight for your country than die begging for freedom on your knees? I am sure you want peace but even self defense by use of bombs is actually bombing for peace. Your people are not doing it for self defense even.

You can't have your cake and eat it to. How are you going to defend yourself? By suicide bombings or by showing that only one side is trying to kill the other? Since you can't win this war by yourself or with the Arab world you are going to need the rest of the world with you. You will not have this if you continue with terrorist activities. If you think that Israel is so bad because they kill it makes you no better by killing them in return. This is the case since they are not the ones at fault. They are willing to let you live yet no one will let them live in the region.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

Yup. Israel is known for running over cribs (the cribs with the bombs in them, maybe?) and blow up houses (of those who have killed innocent civilians?) and use rockets to hit cars and in the process accidentally strike a child (after the enemy launches rockets at their people).

I really don't see the truth being sought. Also, I don't see anyone worshipping Israel. Far from that; Israel's allies are very quick to rebuke her for protecting herself, and never hold the enemy up to the same high level of expectations.

Seems those who would sacrifice their babies in order to kill some innocent Israelis.

No, the target of worship is not Israel. She isn't given a pass for all her wrong-doings, and she isn't glorified for when she must kill.

It's simple, you're a hypocrite and don't perform terrorist activities.

Yes, don't teach your kids to throw stones. It's simple and it's more in depth than that. I hope you guys can understand that. The kids are throwing stones because they are raised to do nothing but hate Jews. They are so hate filled that they will run in front of a tank just to lob a stone at it. I mention this because MsPalestinian showed pictures of such a stupid act. That should not make anyone feel sorry for them.

Yes, try to build your wall. You're so brave that you'll blow yourself and others up but you wont try to build a wall? You are the joke, hahahahaha!!! You can come up with a reason for suicide bombing and a reason for not trying to defend yourselves by building a wall. Which is more peaceful???

If the people building a defensive wall were killed that would show something to the press. It's actually the Jews who are building a wall for defense because the Palestinians have no care for defense, only killing the Jews because they are told to.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

"Don't you dare speak of how good you are and what ISrael offered its people. You don't know a damn thing about Palestinians.
I ACTUALLY LOST RESPECT FOR YOU AND I DON'T THINK YOU CARE. But oh my god........................................................ You are un-believeable..

Stupid for defend themselves?? Seriously
So now we are stupid for defending ourselves.
Am a 16 year old girl and i visit Palestine every damn year , with same crap getting spit on my face.
I was taught an EYE FOR AN EYE. A LIFE FOR A LIFE. So don't expect me to shut my mouth up here. Its enough i shut my mouth in my land but here?? Please.
We will show you what we are made up of.
Where were you before PALESTINE? hUH "

All this show of hate from one MsPalestinian.

So you're 16, that explains a lot. The blind hate has done it's job well. Like you ever had respect for me or for Jews. When did I speak of how good I am, HA! That's not the topic but ok, haha. I will not lose sleep because a 16 year old person claims they lost respect for me online. I don't have respect for your opinion because they do not hold up to facts. It's funny that a lot of the world doesn't agree with you either because of all the suicide attacks going on.

An eye for an eye leaves the entire world blind. It's amazing how little it took to get you riled up and now you are saying "We will show you what we are made up of" I bet you will try. The hate is coming through loud and clear. An eye for an eye is one of the DUMBEST rules to live by and it's sad to hear that you live by this rule as well. It's obvious that so many Palestinains have been twisted to live like this. I'm so sorry for you.

So I just wanna know what are you going to show us? That a stone can blow up a tank? That you would rather fight on and kill everyone than prove to the world you are a true victim? You aren't a victim and you are making the Jews the victims with this lowly attitude.


[edit on 12-3-2006 by Mandalorianwarrior]

Self defense is not suicide bombings. that is an offenseive tactic that will have reprocusions you will not be able to handle.

Self defense starts with handling your own people and making sure they do not commit terrorist attacks.

Self defense won't even get you anywhere since you are so badly outgunned and have never been able to give the Jews a good fight in the first place.

Your only strategy is to control you terrorists and keep them from attacking. You then sit low and if Israel does anything aggressive it will hold more and more weight the longer you don't do anything.

Why would you do anything to fight back??? It wont get you anywhere. It will give them anotehr reason to attack and the world will be ok with that since you had just attacked them with terrorists. The world will care if yuo can prove you are a victim. It's hard to do that when you are not the victim and when you don't even want the Jews to have a state in the Middle East.