Another Teacher on Leave for Politically Incorrect Teaching

Originally posted by Duzey

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Does anybody know who complained and why?

People that had an axe to grind with the teacher. It appears to be a small group of Christians (6 or 7) with influence on the school board.

It appears to be a small group of parents that objected. And many in this thread are creating and forging the same false, bogus argument that always emerges in these discussions: if a person is a Christian, then he/she must be right-wing, or Republican. Liberals like to put forth that bullcrap as a means of further dividing the country.

I got news for you: I know plenty of Democrats that are anti-abortion and that support prayer in our schools.

Edit: The title to this thread is misleading. Bennish wasn't put on leave because he was politically incorrect - he was put on leave because he broke school district rules.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky
It appears to be a small group of parents that objected...

"Parents" who seek to impose their Christian view upon the world.

Let's be clear.

Originally posted by jsobecky
And many in this thread are creating and forging the same false, bogus argument that always emerges in these discussions: if a person is a Christian, then he/she must be right-wing, or Republican.

Just like if you're against Bush you must be a liberal leftist democrat?

The problem isn't with Christians. The problem is with Christians who fail to respect the protections of our Constitution.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Liberals like to put forth that bullcrap as a means of further dividing the country.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I got news for you: I know plenty of Democrats that are anti-abortion and that support prayer in our schools.

And I know plenty of Republicans that despise Bush.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by loam]

You went through that entire post and said absolutely nothing. If you can't contribute, don't pollute.

That would be all well and good if I were a Liberal. Or an American. Or had a problem with Christians.

The poster I was responding to thought they were Satanists and I was pointing to information that appeared to say otherwise. I think that makes it a somewhat relevant observation.

What I didn't put in my first post is that I don't think Faust is appropriate subject matter for 1-3 graders. I think the teacher make an error in judgement in her choice of teaching aid.

I don't think she should be fired for it.


edited for grammar




[edit on 12-3-2006 by Duzey]

Originally posted by jsobecky
You went through that entire post and said absolutely nothing. If you can't contribute, don't pollute.

Thanks for putting that out there J, I hope you take your own advice.

Disclaimer: I say this as a member that reads this, not as a staff member.

Just to clarify a couple things:

The music teacher didn't take her 1-3 graders to the opera, she showed them a video clip of Faust, from the school library to illustrate vocal ranges.

Parents complained, supposedly because the video clip refered to abortion and Satan worship. However, the real reason she was fired becomes clear later on:

From the original sources:

During the Feb. 16 board meeting, more than 53 people appeared to support her returning to the classroom and six opposed it, Waggoner said.

The parents who asked that Waggoner be fired declined comment.

The 6 vocal minority won. But the chicken-crap parents had nothing to say.

"The issue with Tresa Waggoner wasn't the opera, but that she had run the holiday pageant without Christmas songs," said Grossiant.

They were pissed because she's not Christian enough and doesn't force her religion on the school like a good Christian should.

The threat:

Cory Babi, the wife of school board member Mike Babi, called four days before the program and said there would be problems if there were no Christmas songs, said Waggoner.

In other words, this isn't about Faust at all, it's about the fact that the teacher didn't properly impose Christianity into the school music program.

Did at least some of you read the article? This isn't about Hitler or coc aine...

Like I said everything is OK as long as the teacher follow the guide lines of what is wanted and appropriate by the same Moral majority that has been pushing their Right kind of teaching, politics and religion in our schools lately.

Even if the moral majority is only a small group, they seem to be the loudest and the ones with the strings to do it.

This is the new American people, you do what I said or else even if I am the only one complaining.

Since when is it wrong to teach the classics? My mother, a good Christian woman, taught me about Greek mythology and Shakespeare when I was 6 y.o. Plenty of racy stuff in both of those topics. Not only that, but she read the Bible to me when I was 6 as well. Now there's a book with LOTS of violence, murder, raping of women, incest, etc. but many people still teach it to their kids.

When we get to the point where teachers are being fired for teaching the classics, we are indeed in a sorry state. This is the same kind of mentality that thought that Wizard of Oz should be banned.

JSobecky, why so hostile? THis is a RESPECTFUL discussion, you don't need to issue blanket insults (it's also agianst the rules!)

-Forestlady

I wanna dispute the absurd notion that political correctness is a left-wing issue.

Yes, it started on the left. But ever heard of the "terrorist-freedom fighter" contrevorsy? The right considers it politically incorrect to refer to terrorists as freedom fighters or to even bring that subject up.

So there goes that myth.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis (1935)

Your fears are verifiable, the law mentioned is aimed at educators who would point out the glatring failures and profound stupidity of the current infection degenerating Washington.

Dictators throughout history have quashed descent. This forces descent to hide in what is referred to as "Black Comedy" which florished in the CCCP and now florishes in the US of A.

The dictators only win if we allow it.

I used to hope that our country would awaken and go to the polls but now I fear that the average citizen may not be bright or savy enough to vote out incompetence if the ruling Junta tells then what they want to hear. We have too many citizens who will cow-tow to fleabags when after questioning a politician of the Party of God will respond as desired when told...
"What are you gonna believe, your lying eyes or what we tell you?"
They then acquiesce and seek forgiveness for questioning the likes of T. Lott, Cheney, Ashcroft, Frist, Helms, and The Dubya.
I'd say 'God save us all' but I ain't religious.
skep

Originally posted by denythestatusquo

What Christian would be against the story of Faust?

I assume you meant that as a rhetorical question because the obvious answer otherwise, are the parents who complained.

I don't think this article has any significance nationally, or internationally, in the case of the music teacher, she simply got caught up in local community standards (apparently being pushed by a small group of parents), in the case of the teacher comparing Bush to Hitler, the man obviously let his emotions over rule his common sense and he paid the price for that--as he should have.

The one thing about the music teacher incident that interests me, is why the school fired the lady when only 6 parents out of 60 or so complained. That smacks of improper influence, or unwillingness to confront the complainers, or something undemocratic. Obviously the majority of the parents thought it was ok to keep the teacher on, but just as obviously, did not feel strongly enough about it to over rule the minority. They simply let the poor lady get fired. Now she will have a black mark on her record that should not be there. In my mind the majority is guilty of apathy and are just as responsible as the complaining minority.


[edit on 12-3-2006 by Astronomer68]

In regards to kids cussing, soemtimes its an expression of anger. Sometimes they need to dumb down to talk to adults. However if its every other word than things should be changed. My daughter who is quite young is exposed to this language. However, she also knows when to use them. She makes the decision not too. Therefor as a parent i feel i have educated her in the sense of knowing both sides (what he words are and what they are not).

in regards to the teacher, the public school system has goen to crap. There are too many people that do not learn and do not want to be there. When i was in school, my grades sucked cause i was lazy. However if i felt that i did not want to see someothing or would offended/grossed out i would have left. Lucky for me i learned to distingush at an early age what the diffence was and how it was MY responsibility to make sure i stayed in good mental health.

The school system, while poorly put together nowadays, still acts as a child's guradian. However people in general work more hours than previous generations. This leads parents to want the best for their kids but expect someone else to do it for them. I want the best for my kid, but i want it to be her decision as well. But as we know, kids are only heard when they are touched inappropriatly, failing class, or getting into serious trouble. There are not alot of parents that do anything about skipping for fear of their own kids or for fear of going to jail themselves. In all reality parents want their kids raised on a isolated all girl/boy school and never have to have the responsibility of teaching them about sex, drugs, violence or how to survive on the street. I want my child to see both sides. This is why i am in favor of the bill that was passed, but i agree it is harsh.

in regards to the teacher, she was teaching musical notes. She got the tape from teh library. I am on her side 100% from what i have read so far. And to the parents who were offended, you kids will be subjected to far worse if you keep them niave like you have been trying.

Good luck with life all, its not hard, its not cruel, its not happy, its not full of glory, it just depends on how you look at it. Once you learn to see things for what they really are, the world can be anything you want.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by scoobdude]

Originally posted by Astronomer68
The one thing about the music teacher incident that interests me, is why the school fired the lady when only 6 parents out of 60 or so complained. That smacks of improper influence, or unwillingness to confront the complainers, or something undemocratic. Obviously the majority of the parents thought it was ok to keep the teacher on, but just as obviously, did not feel strongly enough about it to over rule the minority. They simply let the poor lady get fired. Now she will have a black mark on her record that should not be there. In my mind the majority is guilty of apathy and are just as responsible as the complaining minority.

I agree with the severity of the teacher losing her job, and the accompanying black mark. That's serious. But this is not the first time that a minority has foisted their opinions on the majority; there are many instances in our legal system where that has been done. And it's not always a bad thing; sometimes the rights of the minority have to be protected, so we need to look at each case individually.

But don't fall prey to misleading statements. The premise seems to be that the majority supported the teacher by almost a 9:1 ratio. But read the sentence again:

During the Feb. 16 board meeting, more than 53 people appeared to support her returning to the classroom and six opposed it, Waggoner said.

Notice that this was the teacher's own personal assessment of the crowd. Was it honest? Accurate? We don't really know, do we?

Some of you are ignoring a big point. A few of you (like B heretic) have said the real issue that resulted in this teacher being put on leave is that she didn't teach christmas songs that have a connection to christianity. This point is used to say that she was put on leave for not being christian enough. Sorry, wrong.
If the real impetus behind her being put on leave is the issue with the christmas songs, I would say it has to do with a group of people who were upset with the teachers removal of american heritage. Freedom of religion is a key part of the united states. However, american heritage IS christian. I'm not christian, and in fact, I dislike christianity, but it is wrong for the educators in a given nation to geld that nations heritage, simply to not offend minority groups. I'm sure minority groups could have been excused from the activity, just like students can be excused from other activities, or, even better in my opinion, they should be able to learn corresponding songs from their own religion, and share them with others. Thus, for instance, a little jewish girl could share hymns from jewish holidays, etc.
I guess the point is that the spirit of religous freedom has been perverted. It is not a policy of exclusion; it is a policy of inclusion. The same goes for state/religion seperation; it is not a law of exclusion, it is a law prohibiting compulsary relgion, i.e., a state religion, as the anglican church was for britain in the past. What we need is for some of these "constitutionalists" to actually learn and UNDERSTAND what the constitution means. Many of them claim to be championing the constitution, while tearing it down with both hands. But that's what the game is all about. Both sides fight for the same thing, in a sense, just with different paths to the end result. I must say, it works well.

Do you not have religious education in the States? it appears not due to the fact that as soon as someone was taught anything which is not christian someone complains and the teacher ends up getting fired (slight exageration i know).

Over here when i was in high school i was taught about abortion (not just why its done but peoples views, people for and people against it and we were allowed to make our minds up) This goes for many issues, such as other religions and other topics to do with moral and ethical decisions, and we were activly encouraged to make our own minds up and given even greater credit if we put forward our own reasons why we had that opinion. This gave me a wider view of the world and of other peoples values and i learnt to respect these.

This teacher should definatly not have been put on leave(permanent) and neither should the one who compared hitler to GW, who happens to be one of the biggest morons in recent history, He was making his point of view known or infact "a" point of view not just his own to the clas and the were if im correct told to discuss this. People especially young people should be given both sides to any story and allowed to make up their own minds.

And if this teacher was put on leave because she didnt have any christian songs in the christmas production then thats ridiculous (I dont see people complaining that people have christmas trees at christmas where were they mentioned in the bible or turkeys for that matter??).Sure Christmas is about celebrating christianity but it should also be about celebrating religion. Thats like saying you cant take part in the christmas production if your not Christian??? balls to that.

Any way thats my 2 cents people...

Originally posted by Tommio
Do you not have religious education in the States? it appears not due to the fact that as soon as someone was taught anything which is not christian someone complains and the teacher ends up getting fired (slight exageration i know).

Big exagerration, and bigger inaccuracy.

Religion is not permitted in the public school system. Liberals are to thank for that. They also want to take the phrase "Under God" out of our pledge of allegiance, "In God We Trust" off of our currency, and any display of Christianity from the public sector, i.e., no nativity scenes at Christmas time. They have removed the phrase "Christmas" from the holiday student break. They have removed displays of the Ten Commandments from courtrooms. It's as if they want to deny the existence of Christianity, because they are willing to accept the Menorah and Star and Crescent practically anywhere.

This teacher should definatly not have been put on leave(permanent) and neither should the one who compared hitler to GW, who happens to be one of the biggest morons in recent history, He was making his point of view known or infact "a" point of view not just his own to the clas and the were if im correct told to discuss this. People especially young people should be given both sides to any story and allowed to make up their own minds.

You should do yourself a favor, and read the entire case on Bennish. You might benefit from a broader look at the situation, if your school system taught you to look at all sides and respect differing viewpoints, as you state it did. You would find out that your premise is incorrect (and the were if im correct told to discuss this ), and that the teacher broke school regulations.

(I dont see people complaining that people have christmas trees at christmas where were they mentioned in the bible or turkeys for that matter??).

Guess what? Many cities and towns have been forced to remove Christmas trees from public display; once again, the Menorah and Start and Crescent are welcomed. Retail establishments have caved in to this anti-Christian sentiment and forbidden their employees to wish a customer "Merry Christmas".

Before you form another opinion, know that I personally welcome all displays of religion during the holidays. But that's not the view of some Americans; they are bitter and want to ruin things for everyone.

With regards to the Bennish case i will read up, i only know what i read from the BBC.

The point i was making at the end wasn't to do with banning things related to chrstianity at christmas, i myself believe that many traditions should be maintained, in the UK there has been talk of changing the name of Christmas Lights to holiday lights and i am seriously against this PC gone mad opinion which is occurring more and more in the UK. My point was that Someone shouldnt be put on leave for including or excluding something from a christmas production (using some good old common sense of course) or for exposing children to some culture which happens to include references to things that actually happen in the real world.

as an aside,employees being banned from wishing someone Merry Xmas?? ridiculous, how can any one take offence at thatm if someone wished my happy Eid, or something along those lines, i would be quite the opposite of offended.

Can someone also answer my question as to if you have "religious" education in the states or maybe some sort of citizenship where children are taught about other cultures etc...?

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
even better in my opinion, they should be able to learn corresponding songs from their own religion, and share them with others.

This is the way it should be. There's really nothing wrong with religious expression in schools as long as any and all religions have equal opportunity, attention and focus. That way, it can't be seen as an establishment of a particular religion. But instead of catering to all religions, the school systems have, in most cases, removed any references to any religion at all from the schools.

Originally posted by Tommio
Can someone also answer my question as to if you have "religious" education in the states or maybe some sort of citizenship where children are taught about other cultures etc...?

Yes, it's called church.

Seriously, there are high school classes in some schools called Religions of the World, where different religious subjects are discussed, but not taught as religious indoctrination, if you know what I mean. Religion isn't taught in public schools as a way of life. More objectively. Does that make sense?

Then there are Catholic (and other religious) schools where religion is taught, but that's a private school.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Im with you BH, removing all referneces from schools about religion stops children learning about the similarities and differences within all religions and faiths. Not learning or being taught about other peoples beliefs contributes to people's current misunderstainding of the muslim faith, interpreting it as a violent and extremist religion which it is not.

Here is another case that seems to be silly as well--what is it with education these days???

www.artrenewal.org...

PANSE is a talented and popular high school art teacher in Middletown, NY who uses traditional techniques to to train his students. In December 2005 Mr. Panse was suspended from his job for recommending that some of his advanced students consider taking figure drawing courses that included nude figure drawings. Mr. Panse is suspended from his job pending hearings after which he may be permanently fired, ending a 25-year teaching career. In the meantime, his students are sitting in study hall learning nothing and failing to prepare the materials necessary for their receiving scholarships.

sorry if it has already been discussed here as it is an older case. Tried a search but didn't turn up any references--probably searched the wrong terms.

Older group of kids.

I guess looking at nudes will give anyone who hasn't seen them before sinful ideas--