When does a mason find out?

Would someone be kind enough to answer a couple of questions i have on the masons please.

I found out recently that a close relative of mine, someone i thought i knew well enough, is a freemason. No big deal really but after reading all the threads on ATS on the subject i took a little more interest. My relative has talked a little about the freemasons, albeit very briefly with that "not saying too much" kind of tone, but he's always been very nice about it. Now this person just laughed when i said casualy that some people associate the freemasons with subjects such as the Illuminati, satanic rituals and many other things. The way he talks about it is as though it's just a gentlemans club and theres nothing much that goes on there at all apart from a few good dinners here and there and chairty work.

If as people talk about on here, there IS a lot more to freemasonry than just an innocent club, would someone who is'nt majorly high up in the masons be aware of all this soon after joining? My relative has been a mason a few years now, and to be quite honest he's not someone i'd ever associate with the dodgy side of what is supposed to happen as a freemason. If the lower ranks are'nt aware of this supposed darker side, are they being lied to by thier hiearchy? Or is the dodgier side of the masons not something they would come across unless they were running countries and the likes?

What i think i'm trying to say is that despite all the posts and videos on freemasons, i'm still very confused as to the truth. Maybe it differs in a small town such as where we live. The most influential and highly respected people who i know are masons seem to be a few shop owners maybe. Not the sort that could bring in a NWO! Maybe i'm struggling with the idea that if he DOES know more and as stated on the forum here some of the goings on at masonic events are not so nice, then is he lying to his wife and family about it, because he sure as hell claims it to be totaly innocent! He's just not one to lie thats all.

Plus the fact that i found out that the Grandmaster of my relatives lodge is the local pub landlord, and going by my knowledge of him around our village, well lets just say it does'nt instill much confidence or respect in him as a leader of a lodge or whatever you want to call it. I just laughed when i heard he was the Grandmaster, and kind of lost respect for all the others that theoretically bow down before him at meetings, and forgive me if i use those words loosely but thats how it was explained to me by other masons.

Thanks in advance for any info, my knowledge on this subject is somewhat limited so excuse any inaccuracies, no offence is meant by any of my comments. I know theres tons of info on the masons here, but as i find it so confusing with some saying one thing and others saying another, i can't help but find myself no more knowledgeable than before!

I've just read this post back to myself and if it makes any sense to you then you're a better person than me!

CX.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by CX]

Have a look at the topic a bit lower down - GRAND LODGES IN MASONRY. I've been asking two masons questions on there.

lifttheveil

Originally posted by CX


If as people talk about on here, there IS a lot more to freemasonry than just an innocent club, would someone who is'nt majorly high up in the masons be aware of all this soon after joining? My relative has been a mason a few years now, and to be quite honest he's not someone i'd ever associate with the dodgy side of what is supposed to happen as a freemason. If the lower ranks are'nt aware of this supposed darker side, are they being lied to by thier hiearchy? Or is the dodgier side of the masons not something they would come across unless they were running countries and the likes?

You have to keep in mind that all of this "lower ranks" and "higher ranks" stuff is the invention of conspiracy theorists and anti-Masons. Such stuff has no reality in real Freemasonry.

Also, it would be logically inconsistent. What we have here is a group of people who have never been Masons telling Masons they don't know anything about Masonry because they aren't "high up" enough. Since the people making such claims are non-Masons, their argument is of course a ridiculous one.

Maybe i'm struggling with the idea that if he DOES know more and as stated on the forum here some of the goings on at masonic events are not so nice, then is he lying to his wife and family about it, because he sure as hell claims it to be totaly innocent! He's just not one to lie thats all.

There are generally two types of Lodge meetings: business meetings and degrees. Business meetings are normally held once per month, and follow the outline of other civic organizations and clubs. Degrees are initiation ceremonies where we admit new members. Masonic meetings educational, enjoyable, and fun: it's why we go instead of sitting at home watching TV.

Plus the fact that i found out that the Grandmaster of my relatives lodge is the local pub landlord, and going by my knowledge of him around our village, well lets just say it does'nt instill much confidence or respect in him as a leader of a lodge or whatever you want to call it. I just laughed when i heard he was the Grandmaster, and kind of lost respect for all the others that theoretically bow down before him at meetings, and forgive me if i use those words loosely but thats how it was explained to me by other masons.

Masons don't bow down before the Master of a Lodge. The Worshipful Master is simply the Old English title for the presiding officer of the Lodge. He is usually elected for a one year term. In other organizations and civic clubs, he would be called "president".

EDIT - The post is titled DIFFERENT LODGES IN MASONRY

Lol i was seconds from posting that after just reading the thread!

Lots of great info there, thanks for that.

CX.

Originally posted by CX
I know theres tons of info on the masons here, but as i find it so confusing with some saying one thing and others saying another, i can't help but find myself no more knowledgeable than before!

Yep as you say, ATS has tons of information already posted on Masons and some folks say one thing and others contradict it, leaving you with no clear & satisfactory answers.

IMHO starting a new thread will leave you in the same condition of having to use your own judgement, as you will still end up with some folks saying something, only to have what they say contradicted by someone else.

Originally posted by df1
you will still end up with some folks saying something, only to have what they say contradicted by someone else.

That's not true, df, and you know it!

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by CX
I know theres tons of info on the masons here, but as i find it so confusing with some saying one thing and others saying another, i can't help but find myself no more knowledgeable than before!

Yep as you say, ATS has tons of information already posted on Masons and some folks say one thing and others contradict it, leaving you with no clear & satisfactory answers.

IMHO starting a new thread will leave you in the same condition of having to use your own judgement, as you will still end up with some folks saying something, only to have what they say contradicted by someone else.

Good point there! I have to admit until i came to ATS, i'd never had any doubts about Freemasonry or it's members that i'd met. Yes maybe some were a bit strange but that was thier individual personalities and not the result of being a mason (i hope! )
I'd only ever heard good things about masons and the charitable things they do. It will be a lot less hassle going back to that way of thinking and not taking any more interest or doubting the organisation unless it directly effects me.

I do wonder if thats the sort of thing others would do though? If we are confused about something, or don't know many true facts on an issue, which is what i'm struggling with here, do we just close our doors and stop looking for the truth? I know it may mean another post along the same lines, but when very few posts here have answered my questions, i will have to ask in my own way.

I feel very torn on the whole thing to be honest, and for some reason to a degree where it really gets to me. Part of me wants to know because if there is something going on that may effect the world that i live in, then i'd like to be at least aware of it. Another part of me feels that apart from the charitable stuff the masons do, it's just a big game for grown men to play because they are too old for cub scouts now! No offence meant of course

I'll leave it for now anyway, thanks to all who posted.

CX.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by CX]

Originally posted by CX
do we just close our doors and stop looking for the truth?

Absolutely not. I am just suggesting that you read what has already been posted on ATS rather than rehashing it in a new thread. BTW I am a Mason, but I have no desire to sway your opinion one way or the other. Ultimately it will all come down to your choosing which information passes your idiot test and which information does not.
.

Just a comment? How come there are so many masons on a conspiracy theories site. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy there is as certainly for me it gives balance. But why are freemasons onterested in ATS?

Are they here for defence, or curiosity, who actually runs ATS?

He he, I'm not starting a conspiracy theory, i'm not paronoid, just curious.

And yes I do apologise for keeping this thread going when I already pointed it in the right direction earlier.

Lifttheveil

there is no levels in masonry?? then those mason books I've studied were all lies.

Now this person just laughed when i said casualy that some people associate the freemasons with subjects such as the Illuminati, satanic rituals and many other things. The way he talks about it is as though it's just a gentlemans club and theres nothing much that goes on there at all apart from a few good dinners here and there and chairty work.

Well as to the link between the illuminati and the freemasons, the illuminati grew off of the freemasons as the founder of the illuminati, Adam Weishaupt(my hero) was intiated into the freemasonic "mysteries". They used the freemasons and their secrecy to recrute new members. However it is generally thought that the illuminati have discarded the freemasons as a recruting ground, and have moved to as Adam put it "reading societies". And come ondrinking beer and doing charity work considered a secret worth dying for, pahlease. I suppose they don't want you to know that they drink fraggy beers and girly drinks right?

The most influential and highly respected people who i know are masons seem to be a few shop owners maybe. Not the sort that could bring in a NWO!

Ofcorse not the freemasons have long since been out of power, not like the days of washington however. Mabey thats why they have adds on TV now. The New world order you speak of probably has more to do with these two clubs: The Bohemian Club and the Skull and bones club. Research the Bohemian Club, All republican presidents since 1922 have been members! even Bill Clinton is a member. There is lots of good info about this Club and it is all so juicy.

You have to keep in mind that all of this "lower ranks" and "higher ranks" stuff is the invention of conspiracy theorists and anti-Masons. Such stuff has no reality in real Freemasonry.

Really ay, how come in every secret society that sattelites the freemasons including the illuminati and the Rosycrucians, have there members divided up into two catagories, The higher mysteries and the lower mysteries all involving different levels of magic power. The illuminati had a nurserey level before these two levels and it was said that only those who weren't squeamish would rise to the top. I Guess the question here is are you just squeamish or are you a liar.


[edit on 7-3-2006 by Spatacus]

He's telling the truth about Freemasonry, actually.

Why is it so hard to swallow?

More to the point: Why do some people have an inherent need to create fantasy scenarios based on nothing?

Why do some people have an inherent need to create fantasy scenarios based on nothing?

It's not based on nothing it's based on real life experience.

So, you're saying that you've studied Magic within the school of Higher Mysteries in Freemasonry?

Coz that would be lying...

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Masons don't bow down before the Master of a Lodge. The Worshipful Master is simply the Old English title for the presiding officer of the Lodge. He is usually elected for a one year term. In other organizations and civic clubs, he would be called "president".

One of the complaints that I have read, particularly from certain Christian groups who are affectionately known as 'fundies', is that it is wrong and against Christs teachings to either (a) worship someone other than the Lord, and (b) assume that mantle.

In fact 'Worshipful' does not mean 'to be worshipped' but 'full of worship' and has been used as an honorific for centuries.

So technically it's the Worshipful Master who will be doing the bowing, not his lodge members.

Originally posted by CX
Plus the fact that i found out that the Grandmaster of my relatives lodge is the local pub landlord, and going by my knowledge of him around our village, well lets just say it does'nt instill much confidence or respect in him as a leader of a lodge or whatever you want to call it. I just laughed when i heard he was the Grandmaster, and kind of lost respect for all the others that theoretically bow down before him at meetings, and forgive me if i use those words loosely but thats how it was explained to me by other masons.

Part of freemasonry is all about personal development, and one of the ways we can 'develop' is by learning leadership skills. In England it is quite usual to become Master of the lodge between 5 and 10 years after joining - one takes the various roles in the lodge, culminating in the top job.

So the most unlikely people can get to be Master for a year. The important thing to remember is not how fantastic they might have been as a leader, but what they have learned about themselves and how they have developed as a person through that experience.

So, you're saying that you've studied Magic within the school of Higher Mysteries in Freemasonry?

Coz that would be lying...

Actually I'm saying that I've studied magic in a society that has been long been connected and intertwined with freemasonry and has influenced their rituals and "degrees"




[and the plot thickens]

[edit on 7-3-2006 by Spatacus]

[edit on 7-3-2006 by Spatacus]

Originally posted by Spatacus
Actually I'm saying that I've studied magic in a society that has been long been connected and intertwined with freemasonry and has influenced their rituals and "degrees"

Fascinating. I wonder why the Freemasons themselves don't practice magic then, since they've been so heavily influenced. Truly fascinating.

[and the plot thickens]

[and the B.S. flows]

Spatacus... I'm keenly interested to know: Who's this magical society that have influenced the Masonic degrees and rituals?