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When does a mason find out?

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posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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hmmmm should I tell you? Yeah ofcorse i should I don't believe in secrets anyway. Here's a clue the 18th degree of the scottish right is named after them.




posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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The Rosicrucians are such a disparate and varied bunch though, these days. I wouldn't know how to respond to you unless I knew which one of the hundreds of Rosicrucian Orders (all claiming fantastic lineage from the Egyptian era) you belonged to.

Thanks for being open about it, though.



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
Just a comment? How come there are so many masons on a conspiracy theories site. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy there is as certainly for me it gives balance. But why are freemasons onterested in ATS?

Are they here for defence, or curiosity, who actually runs ATS?

He he, I'm not starting a conspiracy theory, i'm not paronoid, just curious.

And yes I do apologise for keeping this thread going when I already pointed it in the right direction earlier.

Lifttheveil


If you were a member of an organization that so many associated with conspiracies and horrid deeds might it not give you an interest in conspiracies itself?



posted on Mar, 7 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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I think No1tovote4 just hit the nail on the head.

I personally became interested in this forum via conspiracy theories related to Freemasons. I became fascinated with the perception from the "other side" ie: that Freemasons were involved in all kinds of political chicanery and NWO stuff.

For myself, I really dig the cryptozoological forum. Creatures from the abyss really enthrall my interest!

As far as the high Masonic demographic is concerned... well, most Masons are pretty inquisitive people, and we are encouraged to learn constantly, and to seek the truth in all things. This is something we definitely have in common with ATS (Deny Ignorance).



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:07 AM
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The Rosicrucians are such a disparate and varied bunch though, these days. I wouldn't know how to respond to you unless I knew which one of the hundreds of Rosicrucian Orders (all claiming fantastic lineage from the Egyptian era) you belonged to.

Thanks for being open about it, though.


Yeah the order I belong to is A.M.O.R.C., the Ancient Mysical Order of the Rosae Crucis. It was founded by Harvey Spencer Lewis. He was contacted by Rosicrucians in France wich is how he joined the order. He first heard about the order by a member of the eastern star who suggested that he was a Rosycrucian a past life. Actually he had to travel from New York to France to recieve his trials and initiations. He was also a member of the freemasons, I believe a 32 degree scottish rite. He was invited to recieve the 33rd degree, but after some controversy he never did.

Rosycrucians and freemasons are very similar, and their histories are intertwined.

Yes the Rosycrucians claim to have lineage from the reign of Amhenhotep the fourth, later self proclaimed Akhenaten meaning, desciple of god. He is widely know to be the first monotheist, although the Rosycrucian tradition does include rituals of "pagan" worship. However they are thought in the Rosycrucian tradition to be a part of the godhead. This is what my masonic friend also believes. Wich leads me to believe that masons believe the same thing.


If you were a member of an organization that so many associated with conspiracies and horrid deeds might it not give you an interest in conspiracies itself?


Interesting theory but I think that it's incorrect. My friend who was a masons brother was quite the conspiracy enthusiast. I assume he's a freemason. He is very politically active. He is also on board with the theory that the democrats are being bought out by rebulicans, and that the government was in on 9/11 wich I totally agree. He would also talk about something I find of considerable interest after reading Robisons proofs of a conspiracy..., wich is wether the body creates the mind or wether the mind creates the body. In Robins (he was a freemason) book he talks about the growing dispute over wether god was creating the universe or the universe creating god and subsequentally in the microcosm whether the mind creates the body or the body creates the mind. All this leads me to believe that they are more privy to certain kinds of information and thinking that the public is not aware of. Somehow knowing the "secrets of the universe" leads a man into thinking that there is conspiracy, and drives a man to dig for the truth. Most non-masons do not believe in conspiracies simply because they are not let in on the truth.

That is why we need to find out the truths behind our government, and expose whatever secrets that they have, and that goes for the masons as well as any other secret society.

How can you lead people towards righteousness you aren't willing to let them out of the dark.

?

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Spatacus]

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Spatacus]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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I am sort of the opinion that the original Rosicrucians did influence Freemasonry. However, I would say that A.M.O.R.C. did not influence Masonry, but instead was the other way around (for example, I've seen photos of AMORC members wearing aprons in their rituals, an obvious Masonic influence).

There are quite a few AMORC who are also Masons, including a friend of mine who is an internationally recognized Masonic scholar and historian. I personally have not had many dealings with A.M.O.R.C. (instead, I'm a long time member of Builders of the Adytum, an occult society established as the successor of the Alpha et Omega Temple of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn), but I have deep respect for A.M.O.R.C., and its goal of human progress.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 12:56 PM
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Regarding the links between the Illuminati and freemasonry. - Weishaupt believed that the 3 Masonic degrees of the Illuminati were purely a formality, and not to attach much importance to them.

He also thought it was a good place to leave off members not met to climb the higher degrees of the Illuminati, because they could spend there energy pursuing useless sciences. (Such has deciphering Egyptian hieroglyphics, a then favorite occupation of German masonry. Note: Rosetta stone was discovered in 1799, anything before that was simply guesswork.)



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Regarding the links between the Illuminati and freemasonry. - Weishaupt believed that the 3 Masonic degrees of the Illuminati were purely a formality, and not to attach much importance to them.


I would have to disagree because the 3 Masonic degrees were the only ones actually practiced by the Illuminati (they were the Illuminat's 4th, 5th, and 6th degrees). The lower degrees of the Illuminati were only academic, requiring novitiates to write essays. The 7th through 9th degrees existed only paper only. The only actual rituals that the Illuminati had ever practiced were the three degrees of Masonry.


He also thought it was a good place to leave off members not met to climb the higher degrees of the Illuminati, because they could spend there energy pursuing useless sciences.


There's actually no evidence to substantiate this, and given the Illuminati's goal, it seems improbable. If the Illuminati's ultimate goal was indeed to launch a revolution an overthrow the Jesuit-controlled government of Bavaria, it would seem like a huge waste of time and energy to have most of the members sitting around studying algebra. Like their counterparts in the American colonies who were also engaged in revolutionary war, the Illuminati would have had to have had each man fully prepared.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 02:13 PM
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Contrary to what the masons would have you believe - there is indeed something sinister about this organization. It is now without reason that the Catholic Church has condemned this organization since the early 1700's. Not only does the Catholic Church condemn this organization, so do several protestant groups as well.

We know from the writings of famous and influential masons that there is without a doubt a satanic element to this organization - just read the writings of Albert Pike and you will quickly see the satanic side of this "gentlemens club".

We also know that freemasonry has been behind nearly ever political revolution since the 1700's - and we know that they conspired in these revolutions. Right here in the United States there was a political party, whos platform was that it was ANTI-MASONIC!

Now don't believe the silly conspiracy stories of the Masons - they have all these wild conspiracy stories that the Catholic Church as well as protestants and ruling political parties - conspired against them! - If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black!

Now - do the lower levels of the "lodge" know the sinister side of Masonry - i suspect that they do to some degree, but rationalize it away.

Personally - i believe that somewhere in their progression to the 33rd Degree they are told to do something very evil - perhaps to spit on a crucifix (just an example), if they refuse to do it - they are told that they did the right thing and advance in degrees - but in a different line. If they actually do it - they are praised and advance to the highest levels of the lodge leadership on national and international levels. Now - i know this is probably overly simplistic generalization, but i think you get the point.

From what i have learned of the freemasons - i have no doubt that the real purpose of this organizaiton is to destroy Christian Civilzation as we know it. I believe that the real and hidden leadership of this satanic club are Jewish Zionist Zealots who have a hatred for Christianity and all of humanity (save for fellow zionists) that is almost indescribable.

Now - do i believe that every freemason feels this way - of course not - i believe that the vast majority are ignorant (mostly willfully ignorant, but some innocently ignorant).

If you want to see what Freemasonries vision for the world is - do a study of the satanic French Revolution - learn how thousands of Bishops, Priests, Nuns, etc... were brutally murdered, learn how the mob murdered and ATE - yes ROASTED AND ATE the Swiss Guard, learn how on Catholic Altars the Tabernacles were thrown to the ground and people enganged in Sex acts upon the Altars, etc...

You see - Freemasons view Christianity as an oppressor to their supposed freedom to engange in sin!

anyhow - i am rambling on here

I will say again - do not be deceived by these masons - there is a very good reason that the Catholic Church along with many protestant denominations condemns this organization - and it is not some conspiracy against the Masons - rather it is the masons conspiracy against Christianty!



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by onesharpbroadhead

learn how the mob murdered and ATE - yes ROASTED AND ATE the Swiss Guard


He probably had it coming.



anyhow - i am rambling on here



No kidding.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by Masonic Light]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 04:20 PM
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Actually - a fine example of what i stated regarding Masons and their war on Christian Civilization can be found or at the very least implied by the "signature" of the poster whos nickname is "Masonic Light" - and who is obviously a freemason.

here is his "signature"

"""signature
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal"""

Need I remind this mason - that some of the most barbaric actions ever taken in war/revolution were taken during the Masonic inspired, led, and proclaimed - French Revolution - a war which was based entirely on Masonic Conviction!

Need I remind this mason that his good masonic/jewish brothers the Bolshevics - aka - communists of Russia were not inspired by religion whatsoever and they brought more death and destruction upon the earth than any other form of government the world has ever seen.

Masons love to propegate the myth that wars are the result of religion - when in reality - most modern wars were inspired by and led by their "brothers".



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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Please do yourself a favor and google Freemasonry and Christianity. Lots of good stuff from former Masons about what this is all about. Masons are told to lie, so don't think that your friend isn't or won't.


I've gone ahead a copied a snippet from another web page



Is Freemasonry Honest? Can you trust a Mason?

Freemasonry is not as "moral" as it first appears. They are taught to lie, which certainly is not in keeping with the Christian Bible. As Masons take the oath for the 3rd degree, they promise to conceal all crimes (except treason & murder) committed by a fellow Mason. By the 13th degree Masons are made to understand that all crimes by fellow Masons are to be concealed, even treason & murder.

Ex 33 degree Mason Jim Shaw says in his book, "The Deadly Deception" page 149:
"The Mason swears to keep the secrets of another Mason, protecting him even if it requires withholding evidence of a crime. In some degrees treason and murder are excepted; in other, higher degrees, there are no exceptions to this promise to cover up the truth. The obligations, if the Masonic teachings are believed, may require a Mason to give false testimony, perjure himself or (in the case of a judge) render a false verdict in order to protect another Mason. Again, the Bible is quite clear in teaching that we must never lie or bear false witness, and states that liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Ex. 20:16; Prov. 19:5; Eph. 4:15; Rev. 21:8; et al).

This equates to telling a lie and calling it moral. The Bible records in Revelation 21, "…all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone forever." How can one ascribe to the Holy Scriptures and rationalize behavior opposite to its teaching?



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 05:06 PM
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The Catholic Church no longer forbids its members from becoming Freemasons, and there are a lot of Catholics in my lodge. But don't let this fact stop you from posting more of your BS; it's really quite amusing. Some people give us Masons far too much credit!



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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Yeah, this stuff is hilarious. Thanks guys.

Don't forget to tell your kids that, if they're naughty, the Masons will come and gobble them up like they did to the Swiss guard.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 05:37 PM
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The Church that occupies the vatican under the anti-pope heretic Ratzinger is anything but Catholic, but that is another, albeit related story.

This bogus "catholic" church still officially forbids members from joining the Masons - just because you have some so-called "catholics" in your lodge - does not mean that it is officially permitted.

In 1982 anti-pope John Paul II (the former grandmaster of the masonic lodge in Poland) changed the Canon Law and removed the ban of ipso-facto excommunication from membership in secret societies, but the condemnation of membership still remains.

That being said - the reality of the matter is that in almost any diocese - the apostate bishops do nothing and even allow masons to gather with the supposedly "catholic" Knights of Columbus (which has now become nothing more than a branch of freemasonry). I can only think of one exception and that was "Bishop" Bruskewitz of Lincoln, NB who a few years ago threatened to excommunicate any "catholic" who remained in secret socieites or in groups that supported abortion or homosexuality.

This story quitely went away and we have never heard from this "bishop" again.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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Yawn. Wow, it sounds like you have some serious personal issues. You might want to seek some professional help.


But seriously, keep on posting; I need the laughs!


[edit on 8-3-2006 by A_Widows_Son]



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by A_Widows_Son
The Catholic Church no longer forbids its members from becoming Freemasons, and there are a lot of Catholics in my lodge. But don't let this fact stop you from posting more of your BS; it's really quite amusing. Some people give us Masons far too much credit!


This is the same Catholic Church that gave a pass to priests/bishops who molested children for many years. Hmmmmm.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 09:36 PM
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This is not a place for members of a secret society to congregate, talk about the joys of Masonry among one another, look for recruits or guard this forum to shout down conspiracy theorists.

If you are a Mason and would like to bring counter-points to theories, you are more than welcome to do that. In regard to the above mentioned activities, it will stop at this time. None of them will be tolerated anymore as this is NOT the reason this forum was created.


It would appear that there are those wishing to start the atypical denegrating of someone's thought process causing this thread to detract from the intent of the OP. If everyone could back up and re-read the initial thread that would be great.



posted on Mar, 8 2006 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
I would have to disagree because the 3 Masonic degrees were the only ones actually practiced by the Illuminati (they were the Illuminat's 4th, 5th, and 6th degrees).


In Knigge memoirs (Philo’s Erklaerung, seine Verbindung mit dem Orden der Illuminaten) writes that joining the blue lodge was a simple formality.



The lower degrees of the Illuminati were only academic, requiring novitiates to write essays. The 7th through 9th degrees existed only paper only. The only actual rituals that the Illuminati had ever practiced were the three degrees of Masonry.


I agree that the first degree was academic, however all the other degrees had rituals. So by the time the Illuminatus became a Master Mason he had already performed the Minerval ritual and the Illuminati Minor ritual. (Note the top two degrees were not developed, so no ritual there)


He also thought it was a good place to leave off members not met to climb the higher degrees of the Illuminati, because they could spend there energy pursuing useless sciences.
ML's reply
There's actually no evidence to substantiate this, and given the Illuminati's goal, it seems improbable.


Actually there is, in the Illuminati’s writing. A Illuminatus not met to past the rank of a Master Mason was referred to as “sta bene” – I don’t know what ratio of members was abandoned thus, but they did. (I agree with you, that with only 4000 members it would be strange to abandon members. Maybe they were not suitable.)





[edit on 8/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Mar, 9 2006 @ 01:26 AM
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The whole "Jewish Zionist Zealots" statements and the reference to Masons and Jews and Bolshevicks, is nothing more than the garbage Geobbels ranted and raved about during WWII when the viral infection in Germany, referred to as the Nationalist Socialist Party ruled. When they lorded over the people of Germany the fires of Hell itself were stoked.

If my memory serves me correctly, the Nazi's even offered to help the Allies fight the Bolshevicks when we finally crossed the Ruhr and Rhine rivers. It's a shame when people dig up this slime that we overthrew with the blood of thousands of good men and treasure of many nations and try to justify such vile hatred.

The statements made by this individual are offensive and cause me to hold this individual in the lowest esteem. It is the vitriolic hate and stench of fascism and it is beneath our contempt. It is also the reason why we broke it's back and hung, not shot, its' perpetrators.

I get more and more disgusted with some of the filth I read here. It's probably good that I don't comment more often.

Some people are beyond redemption.



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