So, maybe the Mafia REALLY did murder JFK!!!

There have been many books written about the JFK assassination since the event in late 1963. There have been numerous topics on ATS discussing many aspects of the assassination.
But, not many books have been written since the big documents declassification in the mid-1990's. And, many of the topics on ATS don't deal with the newly declassified documents.
Ultimate Sacrifice: John and Robert Kennedy, the Plan for a Coup in Cuba, and the Murder of JFK is a newly released book that discusses a credible reason for the murder of John F Kennedy on November 22, 1963.

Last fall, I saw the interview with James E. Files. At the time, it raised more questions than it answered. I couldn’t get behind the idea that the Mafia played a large role in the murder.
With the research provided in this book, I can now believe Files' alleged involvement.

This book is a detailed account of the years leading up to the assassination. It includes how Jimmy Hoffa may have been involved. How the CIA was involved and uncovers a CIA operation called AMWORLD.

I'm hoping we can have a discussion based on this newly presented evidence.
To what extent was the Mafia involved? How much were the CIA and the Mafia working together in the years leading up to the assassination?

Related topics:
11/29/63 Conversation Between Johnson & Hoover
The Murder of JFK: A Revisionist History (DVD)
James E. Files:The confessed assassin of JFK

[edit on 5-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

[edit on 15-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

I've begun to read this lengthy book and already my mind is reeling!
This book is very well documented with hundred if not thousands of notes to inteviews, articles and recently declassified materials.

The book is divided into three parts and the first documents the Kennedys (John & Robert) plan to bring about regime change in Cuba.
It had to be handled just right or the Soviets would intervene.
Reading the first chapter is eerily like the situation currently in Iraq.
The Cuban Missile Crisis never really ended because the UN was never allowed in by Castro to check for weapons. Castro felt that would weaken him. Sound familiar?

So, there was a plan hatched to bring about change internally.

edit, spelling

[edit on 16-3-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

So, maybe the Mafia REALLY did murder JFK!!!

No offense, but the Mafia/CIA connection to the assassination is old news. Our government killed JFK, RFK, MLK, etc....

There is no reason to not believe mob involvement in the JFK job. Besides few truly understand anything about the mob, consider the following:

-mob was created by Mazzinni second Illumaniti leader after Weisphaut (sp?), who was familiar with scene in Sicily.
-mistaken belief that mob is all Italian when in fact it is also largely JEWISH, see Las Vegas for reference.

But ask yourself this:

is this the style of operation that the mob would run? NAH!

This has special ops/ secret service/military written all over it.

When the mob takes somebody down like any ganger banger, the type of killing is a message to related competition in regards what went down.

This is not the speciality of the mob, technical, specific, highly controlled and a surgical operation. This is the realm of some special ops, period.

Calm down, excitable
It's not news they were involved. The corroboration via government documents is news.
The book is newly published and was researched for over fifteen years.

Have you read it already I was hoping for comments regarding others impressions of the new book.
What the authors say indicate to me that James E Files was likely directly involved in the murder...as he claimed in his interview.

Jack Ruby = Mafia

Goes up to Oswald and shoots him point blank in front of witnesses and easily gets caught. Coincidence? Now, does that fit your impression of how the mafia would handle a hit??

The CIA ran the show and called in some long overdue favors from the mafia.

Oswald and Ruby had offices in the same building in New Orleans at the same time. Is that a coincidence too?

Old news...

Excitable, please do not try to derail my topic. Please confine your posts to material specific to information detailed in the above book. There's about 900 page and reams of declassified documents to debate.
~~~~~~~

So, here we have that the Cuban Missile Crisis never ended. The UN inspectors were not allowed to see if indeed all the missiles were removed. Thousands of Soviet troops were still in Cuba.
Kennedy couldn't risk offending the Soviet leaderships but wanted very much to derail the Cuba government and put someone more favorable to US interests in charge of the Cuban government.
Also, there was still prisoners in Cuba from the Bay of Pigs invasion.

The CIA was running it's own ops trying to eliminate Castro and often involving the Mafia.

I have a hard time believing that Roselli was involved in the actual operation of the assasination. Roselli was far from a heavy, he was a vegas guy, a contact between the mafia and the government and other civilians. To involve him at that level would have been idiotic for the CIA or any other government agency, much less the mafia because it would have ruined his cover. Roselli was a poor man's Frank Costello, he hobnobbed with the powers that be to help out his mob friends get out of trouble, get business contracts, and act as a legit front. No way he would be involved in this so directly, he had no experience with mob hits, much less miltiary type assasinations.

It is my opinion that while the Mob and CIA worked together extensively they both were always out to exploit the other and rarely worked together on something. The CIA used the mob in order to launder money and exploit their contacts in the drug business. The mob used the CIA pretty much to fool around with them, they tried to take as much money from them, like accepting bogus contracts on Castro, so that they would be allowed to steal from the public with impunity. Honestly there were few CIA types who could operate on the mob's level and vice versa. Most mob guys of that time save for Giancana, Lansky, Marcello were shiftless morons. Giancana, Lansky, and Marcello were just shiftless. Everything they did with the CIA failed miserably, on purpose. The only reason the mob was involved was to continue to use their influence for as long as possible. On the same level the mob was not able to pull off the things the CIA cooked up for them to do, no Mob could shoot a president in a moving car from 100 yards. This is just not their MO. The CIA involved them in one off James Bond type junk just to gain their trust, so they could esentially take over their drug running opertaions, which they did, over time. Both sides were screwing the other the whole time.

I've read this guys story extensively, and I just don't buy it. This files guy doesn't give any more info than anybody who has read a couple conspiracy books already wouldn't know. I have no doubt he was involved with the military/CIA in the cuban bay of pigs, gun running operations. He may have been in dallas, maybe even in dealey plaza that day, as there were tons of mafia guys, CIA agents, military types, cubans, etc there just to hide the real killers. He wasn't a pro assasin, pros were on this. He may have been involved on some level as it appears he had the same job as Ferrie did with the cubans but he wasn't a shooter.

I think the JFK conspiracy is begining to lose speed now to be honest.

I mean, yes its plainly obvious the thing was planned very strategically in a black ops manner. This thing goes all the way up the govenment in parts. And its obvious that the mafia were involved too.

I think its as simple as it was no doubt planned by CIA/other shadow government types whom hired mafia hitmen and lowely "gunners" and mobsters to carry out the parts that had most likely chance of being exposed to the public.

plausible deniability. Thats all the CIA needed. I mean, now look at it. THe entire assasination was carried out perfectly. People will argue that there were mistakes made and that its obvious there was a cover up and all that...but do you really think that everything wasnt intentional? theres been so much dissinformation about this that the truth will never likely arise and even if it did, it would get lost in all the other disinformation and conspiracy bumf. No - one believes anything anymore....

the CIA got what they wanted...they murdered the president and got away with it....there is no file in a secret room anywhere that says "This is the name of the assasin" and no-one will ever have 100% evidence of who did it. besides most of the people involved are dead or soon will be, so it will slowly fade into history.

Granted in a few years files may be released with new information etc, but its only likely to incriminate the mob and CIA, which everyone pretty much already knows anyway

Originally posted by thetorch
It is my opinion that while the Mob and CIA worked together extensively they both were always out to exploit the other and rarely worked together on something. The CIA used the mob in order to launder money and exploit their contacts in the drug business. The mob used the CIA pretty much to fool around with them, they tried to take as much money from them, like accepting bogus contracts on Castro, so that they would be allowed to steal from the public with impunity. Honestly there were few CIA types who could operate on the mob's level and vice versa.

I admit I'm having a very hard time believing the author's premise that those 3 Mafia guys offed Kennedy without the CIA.
The author's want us to believe that the government/CIA created and allowed the coverup of the assassination because they needed to keep C-Day (the plot to overthrow the Cuban gov't scheduled for Dec 1963) under wraps.


As far as what Files knew and when he knew it, a lot of that info could have been around, but was not verified until the big documents declassification in the 90s.

By any chance, have you read this book? I'm very curious to tie in the info in the book to this topic.

Originally posted by mr__black
I think the JFK conspiracy is begining to lose speed now to be honest.

Losing speed?
Books continue to be published and films continue to be released.
The History Channel has a JFK-fest last weekend, featruing the Stone movie, JFK.

Millions of documents relating to the assassination remain classified! And until they are all released, there will be interest. After ALL involved persons are long dead, there will be interest.

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

besides with more and more "information" and movies and books released, comes more confusion and fog to the subject.

more and more theories and ideas come about. More "evidence" is uncovered and "found" and rather than disproving old theories it just creates more and loses the way a lil more

a desparation to believe will not uncover the truth

mr_black, thanks for clarifying

In a way, I agree.
But many of those books and movies are a good thing. The Oliver Stone movie seems to have influenced the declassifying of more documents, for example.

At this point, I think if the government just came clean, we would all go away and find other conspiracies to haunt.
What are they covering up? Why can't they admit Oswald wasn't the Lone Gunman?
Or maybe the whole thing is part of a diversion of what is currently going on

I don't buy everything the authors are selling, but this is a well researched book dealing with a lot of the newly classified documents.

Excitable, please do not try to derail my topic. Please confine your posts to material specific to information detailed in the above book. There's about 900 page and reams of declassified documents to debate.

Not trying to derail your topic and haven't derailed it. Your topic is "So, maybe the mafia REALLY did murder JFK!!!" The book has nothing to do with your topic. The topic of the thread does not include the book. And the book does not change my point of view.

I will confine my posts to the topic....not the book!

I heard it was a lone gunman

JFK made some powerful enemies the Mafia, CIA, Castro etc.. I dont know if the Mafia alone could have pulled it off alone. A CIA or Cuban plan using select Mafia personal would make more sense IMO. If anything went wrong much better to have a Mafia hitman go down then a US or Cuban goverment agent.

This is how I think it went down:

the two guys on the grass of indeterminate background, Cuban trained military spec ops assasins. The operation is ran by CIA and they put up the patsys. Their guy drives the car and puts bullet in JFK as insurance.

Mob moves the hitmen in and out of US to Cuba as only they can.

That is what I think happened.

What is the possiblility that the camera man on the right who's viedeo we watch had a gun installed in it? In the movie - Bodygaurd- a hitman used a setup like that.

I've been reading that book also. Started it over vacation and am trying to get in a chapter here and there. Very dense. Not light reading!

I think the two previous plots to kill JFK in Chicago and Florida have to be considered before making any conclusions.

Very interesting book, but it gets very involved and seems to repeat some facts over and over.

Sam Giacanna (I know, spelled wrong) made this statement: "If we can kill a United States President, we can kill anyone."

He made this statement to emphsize what would happen if a certain person went back on a deal made with the mafia.

One theory about JFK's assination...and one I personally believe...is that Joe Kennedy made a deal with the mafia to help get his son elected President. The deal was that he would see to it that they were left alone since he has a great influence with his son. JFK appointed his brother RFK as Attorney General who immediately went after the mafia. Joe Kennedy did nothing to stop this thinking that his sons were safe as no one would dare to go after the president and attorney general.

Joe Kennedy gambled and lost and in the process...it cost two of his sons their lives.

It had to be more than the mob. If the mob had done it, there would have been more of an investigation. The government would take down the mob for something like that, so for that reason I think the government had to be highly involved in the assasination and cover-up.