VTOL Black Triangle UCAV Concept, page 1
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Topic started on 3-3-2006 @ 02:58 PM by intelgurl


reply posted on 3-3-2006 @ 08:21 PM by orca71
Originally posted by intelgurl
A new UCAV concept being developed may very well visually resemble and have similar flight characteristics of the "black triangles" so prevalent in UFO-lore.

The VTOL concept is called the "Unmanned Combat Hybrid Armed Vehicle" and will utilize an oil-less Rolls Royce turbofan engine system that propels the craft horizontally and powers hybrid-electric VTOL lift fans as well as powering sensor arrays and directed-energy weapons (ie solid state lasers).

This particular vehicle concept could match the "best of both worlds" scenario so covetted by the DoD in it's 2006 Quadrennial Defense Review. Those two worlds being rapid strike and endurance over the target area.

According to aerospace giant Rolls Royce sources the "Unmanned Combat Hybrid Armed Vehicle's" flight speeds could reach upwards of Mach 6 or 7 should the turbofan be augmented by combined-cycle propulsion (ramjet cycling to scramjet for supersonic speeds and beyond). Technology for on-station endurance exceeds 30 hours for a persistent area denial presence or for ISR functions, but that time will eventually increase to 3 to 7 days.

Defense industry companies associated with this concept include Rolls-Royce's Libertyworks, Northrop-Grumman, Lockheed and SonicBlue Aerospace.
Very little information seems to be available on this concept beyond
Sonic Blue's web site, various defense contractor email exchanges and one or two aerospace publications.



*Edited to correct Sonic Blue's link

[edit on 3-3-2006 by intelgurl]


Thanks for the information. It is interesting.

This vehicle shown and the claims allegedly made for it defy the laws of physics.

However, the info on the web-site doesnt make any reference to mach 7 speeds so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for the commercial vehicles mentioned on the website, the following information makes it seem like they did atleast a cursory analysis.


Seating --- Tandem, two seat -------------------- Six to Eight
GTOW ----- 15,500 lb. ------------------------------ 28,500 lbs.
Payload --- 500 lb.(equipment and cargo) ----- 2500 lb. (passengers & baggage)


Sounds somewhat realistic.

What this indicates is a very large fuel requirement for take-off and landing. In addition, the turbines only generate 2500KW each. Not very much when your trying to lift almost 30,000 lbs when with little electric fans. It only stands to reason that there is no real hover capability (note the automated VTOL) and the extra power needed to perform VTOL comes through a combination of diverted thrust and electrical power storage, probably in extremely expensive capacitors. In other words, it really is a "jump" jet. It jumps in the air and shoots off quickly before it runs out of stored energy.

The good thing about this design, where vertical lift relies on stored energy, is it minimizes the amount of time it relies on vertical lift, reducing the chance of something going horribly wrong as would happen with the Osprey, which might be expected to hover and maneuver in VTOL mode. The bad thing is that it has very limited VTOL capability and extremely poor payload.

I should add, the UCAV concept is suggested as a laser weapons platform on the website. Like the lift mechanism, this would require a heavy dependence on a high voltage energy storage such as on onboard capacitors.


[edit on 3-3-2006 by orca71]


reply posted on 4-3-2006 @ 09:27 AM by intelgurl
Ok, Aviation Week has a mention on this concept in the following article - (subscription only)
Rolls-Royce Eyes New Military Engine Technologies
Highlights of the article include:
The Unmanned Combat Hybrid Armed Vehicle concept will use a hybrid electrical generation system to power VTOL flight and operate a solid-state laser weapon.


Regarding Orca71's statement about the feasibility of super/hyper-sonic speeds defying the laws of physics the article states that the lift fan openings will close as the craft gets up to speed:
Lift-fan ducts open for vertical takeoff and landing operations and close for high-speed flight in this joint research program by Rolls-Royce and SonicBlue Aerospace.


The high speed aspects of the concept come from Lockheed Martin/Rolls-Royce's development of the Mach 3+ supersonic cruise missile under the Rattlrs (Revolutionary Approach to Time-Critical Long-Range Strike) program.

It goes on to state:
Rattlrs' propulsion system is a turbojet engine that allows a low frontal area with a large amount of thrust. To go faster, "you then move into combined cycles where you modify the position of the doors or blockers to the airflow. You can have ramjets or scramjets that get activated and that's a fairly efficient way to get to high speed in one cycle," says Burkholder, vice president of LibertyWorks, Rolls-Royce's U.S.-based advanced-concepts organization.


Also the high speed ability is just for getting to the target area vicinity and punching through air defenses but while conducting ISR missions the aircraft will need to be subsonic and have the ability to loiter on-station for an extended period of time.
However, he notes that while suitable for getting to time-critical targets quickly and through air defenses, high speed is not the answer for reconnaissance and collecting intelligence or surveillance data. That need leads company researchers to the requirement for persistence at subsonic speeds. Burkholder likens it to re-creating SR-71 surveillance and penetration capabilities with slower, unmanned, more cost-efficient systems.


Again this is just a concept and a long way from an actual ISR/Strike aircraft.



*Edited for spelling

[edit on 3-4-2006 by intelgurl]


reply posted on 4-3-2006 @ 01:37 PM by ShadowXIX
Originally posted by MadGreebo
! One thing I find odd is the oblique reference to black triangles of UFO lore....hmmmm very odd.



This is perhaps the most famous Triangle UFO picture




Came from Belgium in 1989 I believe they had a pretty big UFO flap at that time. It smoked some Belgian Air Force F-16s every time they got a radar lock on it.

The Mention of the direct energy weapons reminded by of a Gulf War story I heard but never gave much credence too. The story was about US troops that witnessed what they percieved as a UFO attacking the Iraqis with some type of laser weapon. Some people like to call this craft the TR-3A "Black Manta". I think.

If military Black world if really 50 years ahead of any thing made public could it be possible these early 90s triangle craft sightings were infact something like this VTOL craft in secret testing or use.
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