Students walk out in protest of teacher suspension

this must be pick on a teacher day in the news lol.all teaches beware the spoken word may make you a bad person lol......

Originally posted by esdad71
It states they may cover cultural differences, or regional differences, but no where is there anything that states Political opinion.

OK, so you say you can't fathom how a discussion of the president's SotU address fits into the context of cultural diffusion, resources and goods, aspects of the environment and human-environmental interaction and the human aspect of World Geography. I'll take your word for it. I can. It makes perfect sense to me. Not every day, but on the day following the speech, it makes PERFECT sense.

Think of it this way. What is a parent of a friend of your child constantly denounced or put down your religion when you son was around, or talked ultra left or ultra right politics? Would this upset you or not?

Well, I don't have a religion, so that question is moot. But even if it upset me, if it encouraged my child to think, talk, ask questions, be curious and see the world as it is, I would consider that a good thing and I would talk with my child about it. I would not try to protect my 9th grader from someone's opinions.

If my child's religious conviction was weak enough to let this person have an effect on him, I would consider it a personal failing of mine.

I think that's what's really bothering people here. If this was a conservative (pro-Bush, pro-war, pro-religion) lecture that was taped, we would never even have heard about it. The few who would be upset would be called Anti-American cry-babies and it would be over.


[edit on 3-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by jsobecky
So, the kid is psychic and able to predict the exact day this teacher decides to rant?

The kid regulary used taped lectures to assist him in his studies.

It was the morning after the State of the Union Address! You don't have to be psychic to predict that. And let's hear some of those other days' lectures. Where are they to prove this ongoing problem? Why didn't he turn them over to his dad?

This was not the first time a student has complained about this particular teacher.

What? A student complained about a teacher!!! That's never happened before!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't believe the kid's claim that this went on for 80% of the time.

I cannot believe you are trying to blame the kid by saying you do not believe him when the article stated they had similar complaints in the past :shk:

From the original article



Kindly note it does not say complaint it states complaints meaning there was more then one. The teacher clearly had a past history too bad he did not learn his lesson the first few times around. Perhaps this time he will. I know; I certainly would not want any teacher telling my kids what he did as evidenced by the taped portion from the student.

Originally posted by shots
I know; I certainly would not want any teacher telling my kids what he did as evidenced by the taped portion from the student.

Would you complain so loudly if the teacher was talking about family values and how we need more people like Mr. Bush in government and how our brave soldiers are fighting for Iraq's freedom and against terrorism?

It's not that I'm trying to 'blame the kid' alone. I'm asking valid questions.

I blame the teacher for going off on a political rant in class. Let's be clear on that. I'm just trying to look at the total picture. I'm just giving the guy the benefit of the doubt.

I blame the kid for picking this particular tape and that particular 20 minutes to make a case that this teacher does this all the time and that he doesn't allow the other side to be explored.

And I blame the people who believe that. This is a 9th grade boy. Where was your head in the 9th grade?

And if a teacher never has complaints from parents, they can consider themselves blessed. These complaints were years ago. None since then? Sounds like he's doing a pretty good job to me. He is human, let's remember.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It was the morning after the State of the Union Address! You don't have to be psychic to predict that.

And let's hear some of those other days' lectures.

Where are they to prove this ongoing problem? Why didn't he turn them over to his dad?

How do you know that he didn't give his dad his other lectures? In fact, common sense says he probably did, because it is unlikely that his dad would have made a fuss over one incident.

What? A student complained about a teacher!!! That's never happened before!

I wrote that because in your first response you insinuated that people were judging the teacher solely based on his lecture after the SoTU address. As if he had no prior history.

And so what if he is judged on one incident only?

There is a thread going on over in ATSNN about a whistleblower who stole evidence accusing Diebold of wrongdoing. The man who stole the documents is getting a lot of support over there. Why isn't this student geting the same level of support? He didn't even commit a crime.

And, BH, I find it absolutely incredible that you blame this student for anything. To use a silly argument like "why pick out this particular day" to complain is ridiculous.

To attempt to intimidate and ostracize this student because he complained teaches him that it is not permissible to be a whistleblower. It shows him that if he tries to do the right thing, the system will work against him. I find that to be tragic.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by jsobecky
How do you know that he didn't give his dad his other lectures?

I don't. But it hasn't been mentioned at all. Don't you think there would have been a mention of it if they had other evidence?

In fact, common sense says he probably did, because it is unlikely that his dad would have made a fuss over one incident.

Sorry, but that's a huge assumption. You don't know his dad. Or do you? (jk)

I wrote that because in your first response you insinuated that people were judging the teacher solely based on his lecture after the SoTU address. As if he had no prior history.

Fair enough.

And so what if he is judged on one incident only?

Well, I'd say that depends on what it is. If it's a coach sexually molesting his students, one incident is more than enough. If it's a teacher expressing his personal opinion on the politics of a world gone absolutely freaking insane, I tend to give the guy a break.

There is a thread going on over in ATSNN about a whistleblower who stole evidence accusing Diebold of wrongdoing. The man who stole the documents is getting a lot of support over there. Why isn't this student geting the same level of support? He didn't even commit a crime.

Well, maybe it has something to do with the circumstances of the cases. Sometimes the morals of a situation overshadow the law for me. I can muster support for someone stealing evidence that shows that this country is becoming a dictatorship. The consequences are great.

I'm a little less sympathetic to a 9th grader who tapes his teacher to get him in trouble for stating his opinion against previously mentioned dictatorship and then runs to the media with it...

To use a silly argument like "why pick out this particular day" to complain is ridiculous.

Why? How is that ridiculous? WE talk about the state of the union for days after. It's the talk of ATS and classrooms across the nation. Why is that ridiculous?

To attempt to intimidate and ostracize this student because he complained teaches him that it is not permissible to be a whistleblower. It shows him that if he tries to do the right thing, the system will work against him.

Who's doing that? I'm not. I agree he should feel free to complain. I just question his motives and his tactics. Did the kid's parents even approach the teacher or the school before releasing the tape to the media? Or did they go directly for the jugular?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Would you complain so loudly if the teacher was talking about family values and how we need more people like Mr. Bush in government and how our brave soldiers are fighting for Iraq's freedom and against terrorism?

Yes i would complain just as much. This was not a class in Political science it was a geography class he sound have been teaching geography.

And Yes I did read your post where it said he was teaching social studies and that does not mention politics as part of social studies. :shk:
Neither does the Crowcreek link you used mention politics :shk:

As for the rest of your Blah Blah Blah I am asking this or that, I am sorry to say that is not way you are coming across.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I don't. But it hasn't been mentioned at all. Don't you think there would have been a mention of it if they had other evidence?

Go to the original article. Click on the Link, then click on the video interview that FOX had with the boy. You find he has been taping classes for a long time. He uses his IPOD to take notes rather then write them down. This is not something he just did once or twice he makes a habit of taping classes.
The interviewer, I forget who it was even congratulated him for being smart/alert enough to use a tape recorder to make notes.

Edit to add you find the link to the interview on the right hand side half way down were it says student speaks out. His interview starts about one minute into the tape. Tape Link

[edit on 3/3/2006 by shots]

I understand as an authority figure he should be not preaching radical thoughts to these young minds, however their is always 2 sides to every coin.

If done appropriately does he have the right to talk like this and explore the other side of the coin to these students?

If he is a democrat he should not have to give Bush a vote of confidence in his class if he does not believe it. The purpose of the school systems should not be to believe everything you hear and see.

Bush has his supporters as well as his enemies.

The teacher should not be disciplined for allowing the children to have an open mind.

Alot of innocent lives have been lost over sea's, thousands of innocent women and children have lost their lives. Countless injured, countless homeless.

As much as people can argue it, there are links. Before the truth came out of Hitler, he was seen as a charismatic leader and was shown alot of respect from world leaders. History does not remember him well, its left to be seen for Bush.

Originally posted by shots
As for the rest of your Blah Blah Blah I am asking this or that...

And I'm supposed to have a respectful debate with you? Forget it. If my well-thought-out posts are just Blah Blah Blah to you, then I suggest you refrain from the temptation to read them or the lame attempt to answer them.

Originally posted by shots
You find he has been taping classes for a long time.

I know that. My point is that he should have plenty of evidence that this teacher does this a lot, right? We haven't heard any of the other tapes. Has anyone?

Regardless of what you believe, I am trying to have an open mind about this and not immediately decide that this teacher should be thrown out of a very needy public school system. I'm not sorry for resisting the urge to jump on the bandwagon to condemn this teacher and ONE politically thought-provoking lecture based on the word of a 9th grade boy.




[edit on 3-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not sorry for resisting the urge to jump on the bandwagon to condemn this teacher and ONE politically thought-provoking lecture based on the word of a 9th grade boy.

Did you even bother to listen to the Boys interview? Trust me he is not your average 9th grade student; at least that is my take on the way he presented himself during the interview. What I saw was a very intelligent person that is perhaps around 12 yet acts and speaks like a 17/18 year old would.

Does this upset you? This teacher's paid suspension? Then this will really upset you:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Teacher was suspended without pay, then fired, for writing to congress. Have at it, scream out there, rail against what happened to her. I don't think most of you will.

Imagine, if you will, that this teacher, teaching geography, were to be talking about religion and mention that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. His opinion while discussing geographical religions. Suspension? No, fired on the spot.

Originally posted by shots
Did you even bother to listen to the Boys interview?

Yes, I did. He's 16. He has been in Mr. Bennish's class for Four Weeks and he's 'never heard another side'. I wonder how many State of the Union Addresses Bush gave in that 4 weeks...

Something stinks about this story. You have your take on the kid, I have mine. He has a fine future as a Fox News Reporter.

Originally posted by junglejake
Teacher was suspended without pay, then fired, for writing to congress.

The story is gone so I can't comment on it.

Imagine, if you will, that this teacher, teaching geography, were to be talking about religion and mention that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. His opinion while discussing geographical religions. Suspension? No, fired on the spot.

Take it up with the Constitution.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Take it up with the Constitution.

Care to explain?


JJ makes an excellent point. If this teacher went off spouting how Intelligent Design is better than Evolution, would you be upset?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The story is gone so I can't comment on it.

This article is outdated, but gives a general idea

Take it up with the Constitution.

You don't see any hypocrisy in this?

Link to entire transcript of the tape made.

Originally posted by junglejake

You don't see any hypocrisy in this?

Link to entire transcript of the tape made.

Good find Jungle. Did you bye chance listen to the mp3 link where another student reacts? This teacher has been doing this for years. The one speaking out graduated in 2002 while this teacher was teaching history.

You get a way above for finding that one.

[edit on 3/3/2006 by shots]

Here is a PDF of the Cherry Creek policy on the teacher's role in the classroom. The grounds the school used for suspending the teacher while investigating the issue is the first bullet point:

Providing a stimulating environment in which students of many interests and abilities can have experiences which foster growth and development in a wide range of abilities.

The question is if the teacher allowed ample time for differing viewpoints. If a teacher is going to be integrating his politics into the geography lesson, the policy seems to indicate he must challenge all sides of the issue. Reading through the transcript, there appears to be one side he's taking, with Allen, when he spoke up, being the only one suggesting something else. He is corrected and the teacher, after fielding a couple of questions by him, continues on his "geography" lecture.

In defense of Jay Bennish, he has not been able to tell his side of the story while Allen has gone on national radio to tell his. The school has lifted that gag order today, so now we'll be able to hear both sides of the story. What will be interesting, though, is how he handles this and stays within the policies dictated in that Teacher's Role document, namely,

Communicating information to the public which will help support and interpret District policies.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by shots


Something stinks about this story. You have your take on the kid, I have mine. He has a fine future as a Fox News Reporter.

You hit the nail on the head.

My guess is that he gets his trouble making skills from mom and dad.