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Students walk out in protest of teacher suspension

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posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Care to explain?


Federal Guidelines for Religious Expression in Public Schools



Teachers and administrators are prohibited from either encouraging or discouraging religious activity and from participating in such activity with students.




JJ makes an excellent point. If this teacher went off spouting how Intelligent Design is better than Evolution, would you be upset?


Would I be upset? Yes. See above.


Originally posted by junglejake
This article is outdated, but gives a general idea


I am totally against the teacher being fired. She has a right to her opinion and she has a right to express it to her congressman. That has nothing to do with the school. I agree with your post, jake, in the other thread. I'm not sure I see how these cases are similar?



You don't see any hypocrisy in this?


Hypocrisy? I'm honestly not sure where the hypocrisy is (can you help me out?)

I see an opinionated teacher delivering a political rant to his students. I give you that. A lot of what he says is far-left (if we can use that term). But in the end, he says:



And I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me. I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think, right, about these issues more in-depth, you know, and not just take things from the surface. And I'm glad you asked all your questions, because they're very good, legitimate questions. And hopefully that allows other people to begin to think about some of those things, too.


Transcript

I'm sorry, I love this guy. I may or may not agree with everything he says, but he obviously cares about preparing these kids for life in these United States.




posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Federal Guidelines for Religious Expression in Public Schools



Teachers and administrators are prohibited from either encouraging or discouraging religious activity and from participating in such activity with students.




JJ makes an excellent point. If this teacher went off spouting how Intelligent Design is better than Evolution, would you be upset?


Would I be upset? Yes. See above.

Why do you think that rules like that are put in place?



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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His opinion is simply his opinion.
Accordingly, his opinion is best served on a political platter of goodness OUTSIDE of any teaching classroom or learning environment. Further, his opinion is not preparing students for any 'thing', despite what other pundits will seek to claim.

Originally posted by Benovolent Heretic
...but he obviously cares about preparing these kids for life in these United States.

See above. He cares nothing about learning preparation. His agenda is self-evident. Further his agenda is better stated other than within a learning environment. The guy is a self-serving idiot, who knew and knows better.

To have expressed his opinion in such an environment is incorrect and against the norms of qualitative or quantitative teaching.

Having said this, I wish him the best in finding a new teaching position. Perhaps he will have learned that his opinion is best served on the political platter of goodness outside of any type classroom or learning environment, eh?





seekerof

[edit on 3-3-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Why do you think that rules like that are put in place?


Many reasons. To maintain a healthy separation of church and state, to prevent a government institution from the appearance of sanctioning a particular religion, to respect the premise that all men are created equal and to protect the peoples' right of freedom of religion. There are probably more...

I feel this slipping dangerously off topic. This thread has nothing to do with religion in schools.
Counselor, are you going somewhere with this?



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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What do his statements have to do with geography?
No wonder our kids can't find their own country on an atlas..

And the Wrapping-up of his rant:

And I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me. I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think, right, about these issues more in-depth, you know, and not just take things from the surface. And I'm glad you asked all your questions, because they're very good, legitimate questions. And hopefully that allows other people to begin to think about some of those things, too.


An excellent way to CYA, especially at the end, when you are way past the attention span of most High schoolers..NO, the attention span of most PEOPLE.


As far as the students walking out in protest..
I have to agree with DGtempe. We would protest succotash, if it were served 2 days in a row!



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Human Geography
Download the Course Description (.pdf/947K).
Complete course and exam information is available in the Course Description.
Requires Adobe Acrobat Reader (latest version recommended).

The purpose of the AP course in Human Geography is to introduce students to the systematic study of patterns and processes that have shaped human understanding, use, and alteration of Earth's surface. Students employ spatial concepts and landscape analysis to examine human social organization and its environmental consequences. They also learn about the methods and tools geographers use in their science and practice.

The particular topics studied in an AP Human Geography course should be judged in light of the following five college-level goals that build on the National Geography Standards developed in 1994. On successful completion of the course, the student should be able to:

Use and think about maps and spatial data
Understand and interpret the implications of associations among phenomena in places
Recognize and interpret at different scales the relationships among patterns and processes
Define regions and evaluate the regionalization process
Characterize and analyze changing interconnections among places

SOURCE

Is this description wrong then? Are you saying that the Bush admin. or any other admin would not have any impact on American society???



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Is this description wrong then? Are you saying that the Bush admin. or any other admin would not have any impact on American society???


Bennish teaches World Geography, not Human Geography. I put the description in here somewhere.
But it doesn't say "spew your political opinion" and that's what's got people's panties in a knot.


[edit on 3-3-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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I think there is confusion here, but i will tell you that human geography is not geography per se. It is the study of humans in the given geographical areas.

Sheesh.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
To maintain a healthy separation of church and state, to prevent a government institution from the appearance of sanctioning a particular religion, to respect the premise that all men are created equal and to protect the peoples' right of freedom of religion.


But a government institution is permitted to sanction a particular government ideology? A government institution should be permitted to sanction hatred of that government? Interesting. Do you don't see these comments as sanctioning or discrediting a religion:


Other archeologists say the Hebrews didn't really come from Egypt. They were actually a group of Canaanites who decided they didn't like the other Canaanites and developed this story afterward to justify how they killed all their neighbors and took over the land.


You also presented his final point,


Alright, and so this becomes very, very muddled. And I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me. I don't even know if I'm necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think, right, about these issues more in-depth, you know, and not just take things from the surface. And I'm glad you asked all your questions, because they're very good, legitimate questions. And hopefully that allows other people to begin to think about some of those things, too.


It sure sounds like the majority of the students already agreed with him. He was only challenging a small portion of them. If that's the case, then he's robbing children who agree with him of the same educational opportunities. Is that acceptable?



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Is this description wrong then? Are you saying that the Bush admin. or any other admin would not have any impact on American society???


Geography classes are entirely different from SOCIOLOGY classes--that which discusses matters of society within social settings, applications, and understanding, dgtempe.

Nice try in your attempt to justify this teacher's opinionated Hitler comparison....not.





seekerof

[edit on 3-3-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I feel this slipping dangerously off topic. This thread has nothing to do with religion in schools.
Counselor, are you going somewhere with this?

The principle is the same.
They do that as not to promote one side over the other.

Why?

Because it's NOT their place to do so.
Same thing here.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:40 PM
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Thats ok, Seekerof. You can thank Fox News for that report. So the word society has no place here.

I am willing to bet that none of you are very clear either as to what it means.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
But a government institution is permitted to sanction a particular government ideology? A government institution should be permitted to sanction hatred of that government?


Jake, you know the Declaration of Independence. You know the answer to that question.



Do you don't see these comments as sanctioning or discrediting a religion:


Well, no, I don't. He's talking about what archeologists report.



You also presented his final point,
...
It sure sounds like the majority of the students already agreed with him. He was only challenging a small portion of them. If that's the case, then he's robbing children who agree with him of the same educational opportunities. Is that acceptable?


WTMA... (Way Too Many Assumptions)
But I will answer the hypothetical question:

If the majority of the students already agree with him, and he only ever challenges the small percentage who disagree, then he's robbing the others of the same educational opportunities. Is that acceptable?

No. it's not. But remember that we're looking at 20 minutes of this guy's entire career. Not enough, in my opinion to make that judgment.

AND DON'T FORGET! I'm not suggesting this teacher is totally innocent. I don't know enough to say that. I hope to learn more as the story unfolds.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:53 PM
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DG, where did you see that he was teaching Human Geography? All I've seen in the articles I've read is "geography". It could be either, as the school offers both courses (see the Social Studies courses offered here)

The course description from the school for the AP Human Geography course offered states,


This class is an introduction to the systematic study of patterns and processes that have shaped human understanding, use, and alteration of Earth's surface. Students study the nature and perspective of geography, population factors, cultural patterns and processes, the political organization of states, rural and agricultural land use, industrialization and economic development and urbanization. They employ spatial concepts and landscape analysis to study human social organization and its environmental consequences. They also learn about the methods and tools geographers use in their science and practice. Students are expected to take the AP Geography exam in the Spring. Since enrollment maybe limited, priority will be given to seniors.
(p. 6)

Given that course outline, it sounds like the teacher focused on America's role in ruining the world primarily, rather than the world and history’s role, except to point out that he doesn’t believe Jews and Christians are correct in their religion if they believe the Bible. However, again, I would like to point out that we have not heard the teacher's perspective, only the tape and Allen's. We don't know if the student was bringing the tape recorder waiting for the teacher to go off like this, if he'd been recording many times and finally found what he wanted, or if this was, as Allen said, typical. The school is conducting an investigation, and I'm sure many others will be, too.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic



Something stinks about this story. You have your take on the kid, I have mine. He has a fine future as a Fox News Reporter.
You hit the nail on the head.
My guess is that he gets his trouble making skills from mom and dad.



You two are jumping to conclusions here go to this Link and download the mp3 file they link to another student reacts. It is from another student who had him as a history teacher back in 2000 or 2001 and hear what he has to say. It is very enlightening and that is putting it mildly. And make sure you listen to all of it there is 11 minutes 58 seconds.




posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
The principle is the same.
They do that as not to promote one side over the other.

Why?

Because it's NOT their place to do so.
Same thing here.


No. It's not the same thing. That's why I said take it up with the Constitution. Religion is a special case. There is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of rights about respecting an establishment of any one form of government.

There is no place for religion in public schools.

Teachers are human beings. They are not opinion-less automatons (as some would wish) whose only purpose is to regurgitate data. Teachers play a big part in kid's lives. They have influence and impact.

If they can make kids think, they're doing a great job.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Well, no, I don't. He's talking about what archeologists report.


Not the majority, though; he's talking about what a small minority of archaeologists have reported. This is actually discussed on this thread.



No. it's not. But remember that we're looking at 20 minutes of this guy's entire career. Not enough, in my opinion to make that judgment.

AND DON'T FORGET! I'm not suggesting this teacher is totally innocent. I don't know enough to say that. I hope to learn more as the story unfolds.


On that, we completely agree



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No. It's not the same thing. That's why I said take it up with the Constitution. Religion is a special case. There is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of rights about respecting an establishment of any one form of government.


Religion wasn't a special case, either, until 1962 in the court case Engel v Vitale.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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I agree, I think the kids just wanted to leave school. But, teacher did say the right thing about bush! Bush is worst then Hitler! People are to stupid to see it, and what's really going on in this country.





Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by jsobecky
Approximately 150 students from Overland High School in Aurora, Colorado walked out of school in protest after a teacher was placed on administrative leave for making remarks comparing Bush to Hitler.



Goes to show you how much enfluence teachers have on Kids. He probably had them so brain washed with nothiing but his BS.

I hope they ban him from teaching, he does not belong in the school system.


No, it demonstrates that High School students will jumop at the chance to skip school, no matter the reason. Weren't you ever in high school? Hell yeah I would have walked out "in protest" - And then I'd forget about it and enjoy my several hours of free time.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 05:05 PM
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Bush is a lot like Hitler. Glad to see a teacher teaching
www.commondreams.org...



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