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from Supernatural by Graham Hancock publisher Doubleday Canada
Could 'aliens' and 'spirits' be the same thing - or the same class of thing? And if so, what might this mean for our understanding of the human condition and the nature of reality? Could the realm from which UFO's appear - and then seem to disappear back into again 'between one blink of the eye and the next' - be the spirit world, as John Mack came increasingly to believe? More intriguingly, what are the chances of this being the same spirit world, with its well-charted supernatural geography and inhabitants, that shamans have entered and negotiated with by means of hallucinatory out-of-body journeys since time immemorial?
The idea seems absurd by the tenets of Western science, which holds all spirit worlds to be illusory of the contents of our own minds. Still, I couldn't help being intrigued by the close parallels I'd found between the piercings and inexplicable surgical procedures supposedly carried out on shamans by spirits, and the same sorts of procedures experienced by UFO abductees at the hands of aliens. I began to re-examine ethnographic studies of shamanism side by side with casebooks of UFO abductee reports to see if there were other such similarities. Gradually I became fascinated and immersed - for there seemed not just to be similarities here but a whole network of closely interwoven and interdependent connections so intricate and extensive that they could not possibly have arisen by chance.
Originally posted by forestlady
Have you read anything by Jacques Vallee? He wrote a book called "Passport to Magonia" back in the '70's I believe. It deals with this subject very well. Jacques is brilliant and makes some excellent points. He has seriously studied UFO's pretty much all of his life and knows a great deal about them.
In 1969, Vallee published another groundbreaking book, Passport to Magonia, in which he collected a body of folkloric "myths" that read remarkably like modern UFO encounters, from Celtic tales of fairyland abductions to Biblical passages and medieval chronicles of "visitors" from beyond. Building on Carl Jung's thesis that UFOs are a sociological phenomenon, a product of the collective unconscious, Vallee forever left behind the space-bound E.T. theorists. But his folklorist's approach to the problem would influence a number of later researchers and writers who continue to echo his ideas about other-dimensional forms of consciousness. Best-selling author Whitley Strieber, Harvard "abductee psychologist" John Mack, and journalist Keith Thompson (author of Angels and Aliens all owe a debt to Vallee. Stephen Spielberg paid homage to Vallee in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, basing his French scientist character (played by Francois Truffaut) on the real French UFO theorist.
from The Quest for the Shaman by Miranda & Stephen Aldhouse-Green, published by Thames & Hudson.
Lewis-William's line of reasoning has two main elements: first, that both abstract and representational art were effectively absent from Neanderthal contexts, being associated only with anatomically modern humans; second, that the art did not appear as a result of copying from life but, rather was a consequence of depicting images seen within the human brain, particularly in sleep or when the subject had achieved an altered state of consciousness. Such 'states' are widely accepted by archaeologists and anthropologists as being an integral part of shamanism. Neanderthals, according to Lewis-Williams, were neither able to remember their dreams nor talk about them and so were doomed to be 'congenital atheists'. Moreover, he believes, religion was born simultaneously with art in the minds of anatomically modern humans as a consequence of the 'fixing', and subsequent interpretation, of dreamed and trance images in two-or three-dimensional form.* Additional to this, the fact that the learned ability (as opposed to neurobiological capacity) to enter trances was limited to a few people meant that art and religion were associated with the appearance of stratified societies.
*note- bolding mine
Originally posted by worldwatcher
also if you look at hindu mythology, the descriptions of various incarnations of god and the weapons used seemed to be very much "alien" in description, so there is the aspect that our entire human culture is based on "alien"/"supernatural" worship.
I'll try to revisit later.
Originally posted by WalkInSilence
Your question was, " Does the UFO phenomena originate from the spririt world" ?
I have never thought of that. When we speak in such advanced terms as we do here, is all not originated from the spirit world? Just trying to complicate the question (I have not read these books)
Fear holds us from our destiny.
I sense they are physical.
I feel it is crucial that we wake up.
Originally posted by masqua
Spirals, crosses, zig zags and other entopics are found everywhere in the places Homo Sapiens Sapiens called home during that era. One of the main characteristics of these early symbols, going back over 70,000 years, is that of the therianthrope, a being half human and half animal (mostly).
From what I have learned, these therianthropic depictions (on cave walls or rock shelters in the earliest instances)- are representations of shamanic journeys into the spirit world. It is evident in the record (over 70,000 years of cave art, etc.), that the shaman could take on animal form...partially, and even completely, through 'shapeshifting'.
The idea seems absurd by the tenets of Western science, which holds all spirit worlds to be illusory of the contents of our own minds.
Still, I couldn't help being intrigued by the close parallels I'd found between the piercings and inexplicable surgical procedures supposedly carried out on shamans by spirits, and the same sorts of procedures experienced by UFO abductees at the hands of aliens.
Originally posted by Byrd
Less than that. 20,000 years.
The earliest evidence of human occupation yet found in Australia is in two rock-shelters in Arnhem Land. In the lowest layer of material at these sites there are used pieces of ochre - evidence for paint used by artists 60,000 years ago! These shelters lie at the foot of the western Arnhem Land escarpment in the Kakadu region of the Northern Territory.
Hancock needs to talk to a few more psychologists, psychiatrists, and anthropologists.
Actually, the shamans did it to themselves, consciously, to enter into the trance. (this also includes genital piercing and so forth.) Unusual stress makes it easier to enter a trance state.
(be glad to discuss this one via U2U... I'm almost never in here and would likely not see replies.)
from Supernatural by Graham Hancock, published by Random House Canada
It is worth remembering that in archaeology, a turn of the spade can change everything. Still, on todays evidence, it looks very much as though the human symbolic revolution remained 'stuck' more or less at the Blombos phase (of shell jewellery and geometric patterns) for a rather long while- from 77,000 years ago until the great cave art began to appear in Europe more than 40,000 years later. (p 29)
Lewis-Williams and Dowson describe their 1988 paper as only 'a conservative beginning to an investigation of possible Upper Palaeolithic mental imagery'. Having gone through it closely now, I have no doubt, and neither do any of the growing number of top-rank scholars who have publicly endorsed the neuropsychological theory since 1988, that the authors made their case well, and that there is indeed- a strong suggestion that at least a significant component of Upper Palaeolithic art...derives from altered states of consciousness and that many of the 'signs' depict entoptic phenomena in the various transformations we have described (p 213)
Good new ideas are often very annoying to people who have built their careers around old bad ones. I was therefore startled to learn that Lewis-Williams' work has been violently attacked by a faction of his fellow scholars. In this respect he is like every innovator in this field of study since the amateur archaeologist Marcelino Sanz de Sautoula first tried to tell the world the truth about the cave of Altamira. As we saw in Chapter Six, de Sautoula's good name was destroyed, and his life shortened, by the vile assaults and insults of a cabal of leading nineteenth-century prehistorians. The fact that he was right and the prehistorians wrong didn't make any difference at the time because his opponents so heavily outweighed him in the academic pecking order and because really only one mainstreal scholar- the redoubtable Vilanova y Piera of the University of Madrid- was prepared to offer him open support. (p 214)
...according to the prestigious Cambridge Archaeological Journal (CAJ), Lewis-Williams' theories have in recent years 'come to dominate the field, margiinalising interest in other cultural themes such as totemism and records of everyday foraging'. Leading US rock-art expert David Whitley, who makes active use of the neuropsychological model in deciphering Native American shamanic Art, goes so far as to state that Lewis-Williams' contributions represent 'a landmark in the development of Western Archaeology'.
(italics and bolding mine)
Until, the breath of this corporeal frame
And even the motion of our human blood
Almost suspended, we are laid asleep
In body, and we become a living soul:
While with an eye made quiet by the power
Of harmony, and the deep power of joy,
We see into the life of things.
William Wordsworth 1770-1850
Originally posted by masqua
My question to you, finally, is this...is it possible that the UFO phenomenon could, in comparison to the wealth of information you have accumulated, originate from 'a' spirit world?
Could there be a 'rift' between 'dimensions', through which 'aliens' visit our 'world', just as shamans in the distant past (and still do today), have visited theirs?