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'Rapid Warming' Spreads Havoc in Canada's Forests

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posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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'Rapid Warming' Spreads Havoc in Canada's Forests

Millions of acres of Canada's lush green forests are turning red in spasms of death. A voracious beetle, whose population has exploded with the warming climate, is killing more trees than wildfires or logging.

The mountain pine beetle has infested an area three times the size of Maryland, devastating swaths of lodgepole pines and reshaping the future of the forest and the communities in it.

"It's pretty gut-wrenching," said Allan Carroll, a research scientist at the Pacific Forestry Centre in Victoria, whose studies tracked a lock step between warmer winters and the spread of the beetle. "People say climate change is something for our kids to worry about. No. It's now."





This is going to be a terrible ride, isn't it?




posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 09:34 AM
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A friend's mother used to say, "It makes me so mad I could just spit."

She was reserved and discreet, a real lady.

I am not. I am going offline to swear like a sailor.



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 10:08 AM
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The devastation of forests is also happening other places besides Canada!

Here in the Rocky Mt., high desert, west the Pinon pine has been devastated by a borer beetle. And other pine species are being affected as well.

If any robust, able young person wants a good summer job; contact the US forest Service and apply for training and a job as a fire fighter.
This year due to the severe drought, promises a horrible fire season this spring and summer.

I predict that most national forest in the west will be closed due to extreme fire danger.

[edit on 1-3-2006 by whaaa]



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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We saw the same thing happen here in SoCal in '03, with bark beetle infestation killing millions of trees in the San Bernardino National Forest, then massive fires sweeping through and wiping out thousands of homes. The area I live in was literally ringed with massive blazes for days and days to the point that my then four-year-old son added a prayer for rain 'to help the firefighters put out the forest fires' to our pre-dinner blessing, he was that worried about all the smoke and ash and the terrible pictures of the wildfires on the news. It did start to rain a couple days later, thank God.

It was horrible. We were never in any real danger from the fires ourselves, but thousands of others weren't so fortunate, losing everything they owned, some even their lives, to the fires. Then the following winter we had horrible flooding with more destruction and loss of life caused by the burned hillsides giving way under the deluge of rain, with nothing to hold them in place, it had all been burned. Not a very good scenario. I can only hope and pray that your region is better prepared and motivated to act early and often to stave off these devastating consequences of drought, warming, and infestation.

Firefighters gaining ground, halting blazes



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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The Bark Beetle has also devastated something like 90% of the Ponderosa Pines In Northern AZ.

In just a couple of years the pine forests there have gone from lush and green, to brown and a total fire hazard. The entire west might never look the same after this beetle is done.

Here is a decent descriptive but not overly technical .pdf, and there's also a good bark beetle faq on this site as well.



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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It's a little to late to stave anything off, this infestation has been ongoing since the mid 90's. It's up to 8.5 million hectares in BC.


The only thing that will kill the little critters is extended cold weather. We just don't seem to get that nearly as often as we used to up here.



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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wow i never knew they had spread that far though it will become a fire hazard from the trees that have been killed the foress will recover no worries about that. this is just natures corse working its way out the beetels will eat so much till they start dieing out then the forest will recover and then it will start over agian behold the wonders of mother nature.


this has a bit of a ferngully feel, just no huge blob mosnter lol



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by engenerQ
wow i never knew they had spread that far though it will become a fire hazard from the trees that have been killed the foress will recover no worries about that. this is just natures corse working its way out the beetels will eat so much till they start dieing out then the forest will recover and then it will start over agian behold the wonders of mother nature.




Good grief.

How bout, "Behold the destruction of man" ...?

This is NOT a "natural" event. These trees and forests have been compromised and killed. Much like half the world's species.

We have changed our world. Everything is compromised. Everything is mutating and dying or adapting. FYI - humans are not immune.

Hullo.



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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are you blaming the bugs on humans??????

we are in a mass extinction event so that means we will lose many many more species but it is not from man. to think evrything is becaus of humans actions is the indacation of god complex maby the earth has afected us. your more than correct evrythign is mutating evrthign is changiing. what you described IS evalution not the death of a world rather a rebirth of stronger species and as we have all heard. survival of the fittest and the fittese is those who have the abilatly to adapt.



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by engenerQ
are you blaming the bugs on humans??????


Perhaps. It is certainly worthy of consideration and investigation.




Consensus grows on climate change

The global scientific body on climate change will report soon that only greenhouse gas emissions can explain freak weather patterns.

Simultaneous changes in sea ice, glaciers, droughts, floods, ecosystems, ocean acidification and wildlife migration are taking place.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had previously said gases such as CO2 were "probably" to blame.



What is it that you find so compelling that you remain convinced we are NOT involved...and that such considerations are not warranted?

Is it your position there is some sort of vast conspiracy shared among the world's scientists on this issue? If so, I'd like to see the case made.


Originally posted by engenerQ
we are in a mass extinction event so that means we will lose many many more species but it is not from man. to think evrything is becaus of humans actions is the indacation of god complex maby the earth has afected us. your more than correct evrythign is mutating evrthign is changiing. what you described IS evalution not the death of a world rather a rebirth of stronger species and as we have all heard. survival of the fittest and the fittese is those who have the abilatly to adapt.


Wouldn't understanding how to mitigate, or altogether avoid, such catastrophes meet the definition you provide above?



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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From what I understand, the forests will not recover as they were. The coniferous trees will be replaced with other evergreens and deciduous trees, heavy brush, and vines. The entire ecosystem supported by the coniferous forests is in danger of being wiped out.



Forests throughout the Northwest have been profoundly altered by human activities over the past 150 years. West of the Cascades, forests have been cleared for conversion to other land uses or clear-cut for timber and replanted, replacing massive old-growth forests with young, even-aged managed forests. By various estimates, 75 to 95% of original old-growth forests have been logged, and much of what remains is in small fragmented stands. Those changes are estimated to have released to the atmosphere 2 billion metric tons of carbon over the century.


Regional Paper: Pacific Northwest

The Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO)



posted on Mar, 1 2006 @ 10:27 PM
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it is a consperocy in a way if you keep a open mind i will prove to you its not the science its the way the media spreds it to the public that scares me.

first lest say im correst (humor me) we can not rely on he media for facts so we have to go to the canadian forestry site for the real facts.

the infestation allways hapens in cycles while weather plays some roles in supressing them the larva can survive more than -40degres this being a very mild winter human caused or not it has happend enough times b4 that it is worse some years than others. this alone disproves massive global warming therioes just becaus 2 years ago there was a massave reduction of the mountin pine beetle and years b4 that there was a simmaler oubrake.

but tempature isnt the only maj. factor but a deadlt fungal infection predators and cartin trees are becoming natural resistant to the beetle.


www.pfc.forestry.ca...

this is my sorce




Mountain pine beetle (MPB) has been present in British Columbia's forests for millenia. Foresters have recorded MPB outbreaks in some parts of BC since 1910. However, evidence of MPB activity going back hundreds of years is found in scars on lodgepole pine trees.


this alone tell you that they have been around for a long time and it is not like the black death sweaping over the contanent killing evrythign it touches.

it is a fact however that these last cupple seasons have been warm and have caused a outbrake.

here are the specifics of how it will die downwww.pfc.forestry.ca...

outbrakes can take from 1-over 10 years to START to decrece




Significant mortality occurs only with unseasonably cold weather early or late in the season.


so it will only get better when it is UNnaturaly cold during the season when that hapens do you realy think that they will make such a fuss? no one will care b/c the beetels will die.




Adult beetles prefer to attack large-diameter trees. Bigger trees provide higher quality food and larval habitat. Thicker bark provides greater protection from predators and climatic extremes. However, large-diameter trees in a stand tend to be more vigorous and have a greater capacity to resist attack.


in the article it says they have been goign for younger trees witch means one of 2 things 1 there starting to decrece or second the older trees are becomeing more resistant.

while the beetles kill trees most are just wounded but not fataly but the funny thing is that the way humans comabt them is usualy just to burn it lol


the way media puts its spin on it they want you to beleve there eating evrythign and anythign. where the truth is they only realy like one kind of pine. the ruth is these bugs have been here for millions of years eating on the same patches of trees. they follow a cucle of regression and binge eating

my point is they realy are desprate to pin things on global warming and while the past cupple seasons have been warm it has happend before the real test will b if they dont decrese in 10 years even if that donet happen it dosent mean the world is warming maby they have adaped in some way who knows.

you should allways question erything you hear and read and i dont doubt humans have had some impact on the earth but ther is no data to support it

thx for your time sy for the errors



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by engenerQ
it is a consperocy in a way if you keep a open mind i will prove to you its not the science its the way the media spreds it to the public that scares me.


In the article I posted, it isn't the reporter who says:




"It's pretty gut-wrenching," said Allan Carroll, a research scientist at the Pacific Forestry Centre in Victoria, whose studies tracked a lock step between warmer winters and the spread of the beetle. "People say climate change is something for our kids to worry about. No. It's now."



That is the scientist's express statements...

And what about this?




Scientists fear the beetle will cross the Rocky Mountains and sweep across the northern continent into areas where it used to be killed by severe cold but where winters now are comparatively mild. Officials in neighboring Alberta are setting fires and traps and felling thousands of trees in an attempt to keep the beetle at bay.

"This is an all-out battle," said David Coutts, Alberta's minister of sustainable resource development. The Canadian Forest Service calls it the largest known insect infestation in North American history.



Again, you were saying? I don't get the media bias...
Should they not report these statements? Do you question the credibility of the quotes?


Originally posted by engenerQ
first lest say im correst (humor me) we can not rely on he media for facts so we have to go to the canadian forestry site for the real facts.


Wait, so are you saying this quote is a lie?



The Canadian Forest Service calls it the largest known insect infestation in North American history.


Or these quotes:




...

"It's a rapid warming" that is increasing the beetles' range, said Carroll. "All the data show there are significant changes over widespread areas that are going to cause us considerable amount of grief. Not only is it coming, it's here."

...

"We are seeing this pine beetle do things that have never been recorded before," said Michael Pelchat, a forestry officer in Quesnel, as he followed moose tracks in the snow to examine a 100-year-old pine killed in one season by the beetle. "They are attacking younger trees, and attacking timber in altitudes they have never been before."

...

Scientists with the Canadian Forest Service say the average temperature of winters here has risen by more than 4 degrees in the last century. "That's not insignificant," said Jim Snetsinger, British Columbia's chief forester. "Global warming is happening. We have to start to account for it."





Only one thing comes to mind:




Originally posted by engenerQ
...the way media puts its spin on it they want you to beleve there eating evrythign and anythign.


Really? Where in that article is that the case?


Originally posted by engenerQ
...my point is they realy are desprate to pin things on global warming...


Again, why? Because they reported upon the statements of scientists and forestry officials???


Originally posted by engenerQ
you should allways question erything you hear and read


Your post included.



Originally posted by engenerQ
and i dont doubt humans have had some impact on the earth but ther is no data to support it


What an odd thing to say.... You have no doubt of the existence of something, even in absence of data to support it?


I wonder what other beliefs you hold where the same is true...




[edit on 2-3-2006 by loam]



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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You have voted loam for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.




The picture you initially posted was so Christmas-y, I didn't know how to feel. Ho-Ho or Boo-Hoo.


What's missing on those trees is snow! No wonder everything's heating up so much, nothing but green trees and brown earth soaking up the sun. :shk:

Could a possible solution be to fake a snow cover, somehow? Aerial spraying of a bio-degradeable paint or something, anything to increase the amount of radiation reflected?

Just trying to brainstorm, because the problem appears to be of the tipping-point sort. Presumably if a bunch of trees die, there will be even more ground exposed, and if it's not covered in a snowpack...

Anyway, good thread loam.



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 01:08 AM
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There's a human factor in the size of the infestation that has nothing to do with global warming. BC has more lodgepole pines over the age of 80 (the preferred snack of Mountain Pine beetles everywhere) than ever before due to improved fire fighting techniques and equipment.

There's more than one way to mess with forest.


The provincial government is taking this quite seriously but there's really not a lot that can be done at this point. We are at the mercy of the weather.



The extent of the mountain pine beetle epidemic in the interior of British Columbia has grown well past the point of only being a forestry issue.

Cooperation and resources are now required from all levels of government, the forest industry and other agencies to mitigate the effects of an epidemic that has killed 283 million cubic metres of timber. Approximately seven million hectares (an area about the size of New Brunswick) were affected in 2004.

The Ministry of Forests projects that 80 per cent of the provincial lodgepole pine inventory could be killed by 2013.

www.for.gov.bc.ca...



edited to fix link




[edit on 2-3-2006 by Duzey]



posted on Mar, 2 2006 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
There's more than one way to mess with forest.



Excellent reminder....and therein lies the point... Dismissing how we impact the environment is just plain stupid. It is in our self-interest to understand how to maintain sustainable prosperity by sound management of our natural resources.

People who ignore or discount things like this just blow my mind. What could be more irresponsible?



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by engenerQ
...is the indacation of god complex...


Make no mistake... Atman is Brahman

I AM GOD

As are you my brother. Accept responsiblity or face Hell. Your avoidance of the Truth places your soul in peril.

Om Mani Padme hum,

Sri Oracle



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by Duzey
There's more than one way to mess with forest.

... It is in our self-interest to understand how to maintain sustainable prosperity by sound management of our natural resources.

People who ignore or discount things like this just blow my mind. What could be more irresponsible?


Agree. Foresters know how to manage forests for the net benefit of people and the forest environment. But the environmental industry won't let them. Every time a science-based plan is suggested the enviros go running for their lawyers and lobbyists.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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This planet sure would be better off without us around to F#@$ it up all the time.

Agent Smith was right. we are a virus, and all we do is destroy and move on....

Its all so sad, and yet goverments will do nothing to stop the world sliding into a super heated hell that cannot sustain life. V V sad.



posted on Mar, 3 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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I feel bad for the foresters in my province. The industry has already taken a really large hit with tens of thousands of job losses from the softwood lumber dispute. Now they will be dealing with the effects of this for years to come.


The government wants to minimize the economic impact for the towns that depend on forestry by harvesting the dead trees over time because the quality doesn't start to decline for over 10 years. This is going to leave us with a huge fire hazard unless they put a lot of money into hiring people to clean out the underbrush.

The irony being that if we didn't run around trying to prevent fires, this forest would have burned years ago and there wouldn't be so many mature trees for the beetle to infest.




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