If you think America can cope with another war, read this and weep, page 1
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reply posted on 17-2-2006 @ 01:33 PM by ThatsJustWeird
Originally posted by DaFunk13
The only resolution that comes to mind would be for every war supporter to enlist. Every argument I ever have with a pro-war person end with me asking them politely to join up. I firmly believe in doing your duty as an American, but in the present cases I have to decline. I refuse to believe that we are "in the know."

Matter of fact, I am pretty sure just the opposite is true. I firmly think we are being lied to. If we are invaded, or directly attacked by a clear and definable enemy, I will be first in line to defend the country I love. I just dont think this was the case with 9/11.

I started a thread a few weeks ago asking Bush supporters why they werent serving in their war. The mods deemed it unnoteworthy apparantly and it is now rotting @ BTS. So maybe I can ask that question here.

If you think that Islamic Terrorists are truely trying to kill us, not because of currupt politics and currupt leaders, but because they "are jealous of our freedom," why the hell arent you fighting for your FREEDOM? Why arent your kids fighting? Over 3/4ths of the nascar fans and wife beaters in this country voted for these blood/oil thirsty policies so gays couldnt marry, and abortions wouldnt continue, and the Arabs would pay, yet they refuse to fight for these same beliefs? Or send their children?

Make up your minds...I have made up mine.

There are many reasons why the terrorists are trying to kill us. And yes there are terrorists. They have been active against the US for the past 3-4 decades. Does that make me a Bush supporter? **** no!
That's just reality.

If we are invaded, or directly attacked by a clear and definable enemy, I will be first in line to defend the country I love. I just dont think this was the case with 9/11.

As would most people. But, terrorists and their habitats aren't clear and definable. So what do you do?

The WOT - I have yet to be given a reason not to support it (Iraq war is NOT part of the war on terror IMO)
We are in Afghanistan with about 20 other countries right now. If you have information that these countries don't have, please share it!

Is the WOT "winnable." It's probably about as winnable as the war on drugs. But, if done right...you can put a dent in terror. Hopefully is shows them that the consequences of their actions in not beneficial to them, their families, their countries, and the way they're viewed in the world. Also having them constantly moving around could disrupt their planning and finances.

Why am I not fighting? Because I don't have to and I don't want to. That's the beauty of a all volunteer army.
And there's no need to join and fight. We have close to 1.5 million Americans who have volunteered for our military (not including the reserves). We have ~20,000 troops out of that 1.4-1.5 million fighting in the WOT (again, not including Iraq in this). That ~20,000 number really hasn't changed since 2001, meaning at the present there's no need for more. If they did need more, I'm pretty sure they'd take from the other 1.4-1.5 million volunteers.


reply posted on 17-2-2006 @ 05:08 PM by OneGodJesus
Originally posted by DaFunk13
If you think that Islamic Terrorists are truely trying to kill us, not because of currupt politics and currupt leaders, but because they "are jealous of our freedom," why the hell arent you fighting for your FREEDOM? Why arent your kids fighting? Over 3/4ths of the nascar fans and wife beaters in this country voted for these blood/oil thirsty policies so gays couldnt marry, and abortions wouldnt continue, and the Arabs would pay, yet they refuse to fight for these same beliefs? Or send their children?
Make up your minds...I have made up mine.


I tried but they don't take back crippled vets. I even volunteered to go as a GS worker (without a gun no less). No dice. You are asking the wrong crowds, if they are true patriots we don't fight because we "LOVE BUSH SOOOO MUCH" AS YOU THINK. We do it because we don't want that junk ending up here again because we didn't do our part.

If you get some who won't go then they aren't patriots anyway. I'd ask a more pointed question to them, "do you think that the founding fathers had it really good rebelling against tryany?" most were hunted down and killed or run out of business, had thier families killed or imprisoned. They didn't live high on the hog so to speak. They sacrificed for the IDEA of freedom and liberty.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. American people are lazy. Republican, Democrate or any other party, makes no difference. It all comes down to the populace. If you aren't hurt you won't react. The we have this really bad habit of short term memory loss in America. If I had it my way, I'd show the towers going down every day. We are a lazy, stupid, acting like sheep group in America. Until we get slapped, then watch out....for 30 seconds we'll whoop you up one side and down the other. The we'll forget why we started whooping in the first place. Then we'll start being critical of why we started whooping. Then we'll let the world start being critical and not reacting, because we forgot why we were mad at all. Then we'll patch up whomever it was that we whooped on.

Kinda sux if you ask me. and that is my .02


reply posted on 17-2-2006 @ 05:22 PM by Paul of Nisbis
Originally posted by DaFunk13

Over 3/4ths of the nascar fans and wife beaters in this country voted


There is no excuse for not knowing that while the voting may continue, since it is done with blackbox electronics, that can't be independently verified, you can't blame America for voting a certain way, when it is likely they didn't.


Originally posted by DaFunk13

for these blood/oil thirsty policies


Let me quess, they were supposed to vote for the Bonesman Kerry's "blood/oil thirsty policies" instead?

www.pressaction.com...




www.washingtonpost.com...

In his most extensive remarks on the future of the American military, Sen. John F. Kerry said here Thursday that he would expand the active-duty Army by 40,000 soldiers, including a doubling of U.S. Special Forces; speed development of new technologies and equipment to meet threats posed by terrorist networks; and better integrate the National Guard into the nation's homeland security strategy.


That isn't a call for peace, that would be escalation of the war. How hypocritical, or stupid, are liberals to complain about "Nascar fans and wife beaters" backing Bush, when their candidate was only offering more war, more loss of civil liberties, than the incumbent?


Originally posted by DaFunk13

so gays couldnt marry




washingtontimes.com...

President Bush broke with the Republican Party platform in supporting states' rights to permit same-sex civil unions.

"I don't think we should deny people rights to a civil union, a legal arrangement, if that's what a state chooses to do so. ...

[...]

"So the Republican platform on that point, as far as you're concerned, is wrong?" Gibson asked the president, to which Bush replied: "Right."




www.washingtonpost.com...

President Bush has signed a bill allowing death benefits to be paid to the domestic partners of firefighters and police officers who die in the line of duty, permanently extending a federal death benefit to same-sex couples for the first time.


[edit on 17-2-2006 by Paul of Nisbis]



reply posted on 17-2-2006 @ 07:39 PM by The Vagabond
Let's look at this from a slightly more balanced perspective than can be offered by the authors of that report: every one of whom served the Clinton Administration or worked on the Kerry campaign as far as I can tell.

For this purpose, I will not be indulging in dramatic speculations of what recruiting numbers may or may not do in the next few years, unlike the writers of that report.

I will also not be using ambiguous phrasings that technically tell the truth while implying dramatic lies. For example I will not say "Every Combat Unit in the Marine Corps has been deployed", if I feel that such phrasing may indicate that they are all over there at once and we have no more to send; instead I will indicate the present situation as clearly as possible.

So here we go:
1. Can America handle another war?
That depends on the size, location, and cause of the war.

Iran
There is very little likelihood that Iran could successfully launch an a major incursion into Iraq against us, and we probably could pull off limited operations inside of Iran. We would not be financially or strategically wise to invade, much less try an occupation, but that is not immediately necessary in any forseeable scenario.

Most other potential conflicts are not significantly affected by the deployment in Iraq because they are not managable by conventional force, at least not in any respect that is diminished by our deployment in Iraq.

We were never in any position to fight over Taiwan or South Korea in a conventional war anyway because of the potential nuclear and economic consequences. If there were a revolution in Pakistan our Navy is still in fine shape to eliminate their nukes if necessary. Russia isn't in a position to attack anything worth defending. Israel can take care of itself and we have no business defending them in most cases anyway, so anything that may happen via Syria or Hamas isn't our problem.


2. Is the volunteer military in grave danger?
In the next 2-5 years, if troop levels in Iraq don't come down with no adjustments or additional enlistment incentives? Yes.
In the next 1-2 years, if our political leaders start pulling troops out for the elections and authorizing new incentives as necessary? No, we'll be stressed, but we'll be OK.

3. Is Iraq winnable?
News flash, we already won. We won a couple of years ago. Granted that if we leave things in that country could get uglier and the oil flow could either be interrupted or simply directed away from us, but any potential that Iraq had to become an threat in the future is gone for years to come.

4. Is the War on Terror winnable?
Depends what you consider winning. How do you win? Have all the Muslims gotta be dead? Have we gotta conquer the whole Middle East? No, we can't win if that's what people consider winning.
Kill Osama? Maybe doable, maybe not, although I don't see what that does to magically "win".
Severely damage the abilities of Al Qaida and prevent them from hitting us again? Gee, I'd say we're doing pretty dang good at that, and I believe we can continue to do that indefinitely without having to sustain the pattern of invasions and occupations that we began with.

5. Is DaFunk right about hawks?
I earned my Eagle Globe and Anchor. Where's yours?

I believe in fighting our enemies when necessary, I was for the war when it started, I feel like it was mishandled, I feel like it needs to be fixed and then ended as soon as possible, and after that I believe we need to remain willing to defend ourselves rather than getting scared and giving up on that option no matter what may happen in the future, as some doves might prefer.

Let's get something straight about what a nation is. A nation is a common effort for the things a group of people cannot accomplish as individuals, and this includes defense against potential threats abroad. "If you want it done, you go do it" is completely contrary to the whole idea of having a nation.

A standing volunteer military force exists even in peace time, with the understanding that they are paid to fight when the nation deems necessary. This is done precisely so that not everyone has to drop everything and go fight.

If we're young, able, and willing, we give a few years before we move on to get tied up in a life that we can't leave for war, and in return we get additional opportunities later in life.

I did it; I got injured in training and then got the big green weenie on top of that but such is life.

I don't have any problem with ThatsJustWierd for not joining, so what right do people like Jakomo and Da Funk have to hold it against him?

If ThatsJustWierd is a coward for not enlisting, then I say Jakomo and Da Funk are murders for funding this war, and their cowards for not having the courage to stop paying their taxes, which fund this war which they are so opposed to. You know that if you had the spine to back your beliefs, you anti-war people could pull us out of Iraq by the purse strings with civil disobedience. Ouch; not liking our own medicine now, are we?
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