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Students reject honor to 'Baa Baa Black Sheep' hero

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posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:07 AM
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Wait. Are you serious? The idiot inferred that an actor is great and nobel and that one who defends one's nation from attack is a murderer?

I have GOT to get a passport. It seems the academic infiltration by the Soviets many decades ago has just about destroyed out nation, as planned.




posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by mxboy15u
So at what point do we stop letting people of my generation have any say in anything?


What do you want to have 'say' in that you don't?


Originally posted by mxboy15u
It is time for there to be a draft again.


There sure is! Maybe we could get some of these war supporters over there actually doing something about it instead of typing up a storm about how wonderful it is! If all the pro-war people would join up, there wouldn't be a need for a draft.



[edit on 17-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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My point is that there is a rebirth of people in this country who have never made any sacrifice for anyone but themselves, yet feel the need to insult those who do. I am sorry but I DO NOT agree with them, the only reason they are attending such a place is because of the sacrifices that our war heros have made. I guess I have been surrounded by people who are noble, and have lost touch with the majority of my generation. College teaches ignorance and laziness, the draft has been used as a propoganda tool to overthrow canidates, since when was it a negative thing to serve ones country?

[edit on 17-2-2006 by mxboy15u]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Wait. Are you serious? The idiot inferred that an actor is great and nobel and that one who defends one's nation from attack is a murderer?


Wait, You're taking this kid seriously?
You're upset because a child prefers Hollywood over the war?

Really guys, these are idealistic young college students. Their college is their government. They have 'Senators' and 'Representatives'... They're playing grown up. It's real cute. They're getting their feet wet in the ways of making decisions and observing the consequences. They're barely able to dress themselves.

Why all the uproar (of much older and more experienced people) because some college kids voted to take out the 'killing words'? I don't get it. They obviously disagree with you but that's ok, right?



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What are you all crying about? As far as I can see, all they did was remove a clause from the memorial about how he destroyed some aircraft. Did anyone read the story?


Benevolent Heretic;

The article is very confusing; but it points to this link, where you'll find the following (scroll to the bottom):


History of Legislation

01/11/2006: Submitted for consideration
01/13/2006: Referred to the General Affairs Committee
01/17/2006: Reported Without Opinion by the General Affairs Committee
01/24/2006: Placed on First Reading
01/31/2006: Placed on Second Reading
02/07/2006: Amended by the Senate
02/07/2006: Failed by the Senate


...where it clearly shows it failed. I'm no expert; but I think this means "Pappy" won't be getting a memorial.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by mxboy15u
I am in the military, so insulting me, and saying I do nothing but type is a pretty stupid comment.


My comment was not directed at you. I did not insult you. I was speaking of the many 20-40-year-olds who sit behind their keyboards dressing down people who are against this administration and this war.

You had mentioned "your generation" and WWII so I actually figured you were older than enlistment or draft age.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Benevolent Heretic;

The article is very confusing;


Thanks FFS. I also found it confusing. I thought the resolution was to change the wording.

So, now I know what everyone's crying about.
Pappy won't be getting a memorial (I think). It's still their school and their decision. That's democracy!



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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Democracy is frequently wrong, so sitting back and claiming "thats democracy" is not a valid excuse or reason. Sometimes the correct decision just needs to be forced. Hitler was elected in a democracy. Thank God the world did not sit back and claim "thats democracy"



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by mxboy15u
My point is that there is a rebirth of people in this country who have never made any sacrifice for anyone but themselves, yet feel the need to insult those who do.


I actually agree with you. Most kids are totally self-absorbed and I have no hope for them.



I am sorry but I DO NOT agree with them,


I don't expect you to.



I guess I have been surrounded by people who are noble, and have lost touch with the majority of my generation.


May I ask what generation you are speaking of?



since when was it a negative thing to serve ones country?


Like it or not, many see that 'serving one's country' these days means something very different than it used to. I used to have quite a bit of respect for it myself. I'm not a peace-nik or anything. But I'm against this war, as are many people. And we all have a right to our opinions. They're not wrong, they're just different than yours.


Apparently the majority of these kids don't give the same 'weight' to serving in the military as you do. They have the freedom to have and voice those opinions. That's also something past heros have fought for, right? Not just for those who agree with you, but for those who don't, as well.

Our freedoms are not just for some.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:48 AM
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I am early 20's. So what generation is that y? Who cares, people my age are generally absolutely useless. The children of yuppies that can't move out of home because the world is a scary place. Lets all hide in grad school. Dodging adulthood seems to be my generations trademark. And colleges professors are mostly people who dodged adulthood successfully their whole life.
Staying in college so long they make you an employee should not be an accomplishment. These are the people who indoctrinate another generation of spineless followers.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by mxboy15u]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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This item has been heavily discussed by Neal Boortz on his radio show. Those students who take issue with the honoring of Mr. Boyington have every right to do so. My opinion is irrelevant.
Mr. Boortz is starting a scholarship fund in Mr. Boyingtons name. Readers at this site interested in helping out those supporting the issue can read more about it at www.boortz.com



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by ferretman2

Can't wait to see if there is an 'outrage' over this............



According to Fox news, they received so many objections from others, they are now going to reconsider the issue next month. Only it will not honor Pappy alone the memorial whatever it will be will represent five individuals who are vets and Pappy will be one of the five.

Fox news video showed the school campus was loaded with anti war stuff in windows so I assume that is why they objected to his being honored.

The students really need to get a life if you ask me, they obviously do not understand what a medal of honor hero is and means.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 12:18 PM
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When I saw the title of this thread, I thought that maybe they had realized exactly what kind of man Boyington really was and were basing their objections on that.

The man was an absolute failure as a human being. He was an alcoholic, an adulterer, an abusive husband, divorced several times and bankrupt most of his life. He was certainly not a “rich white man" as one of the students seems to think.

In addition, there have been some serious questions raised about the validity of many of his kills.

That having been said, he was the right man at the right place to do a dirty, vicious and dangerous job. Irregardless if he exagerated the actual number of planes he shot down, he did make a positive contribution to winning the war.

For that, I don’t begrudge him his faults. For that, he should be honored.

For that, the student body of UW should be thankful they aren’t having to take mandatory classes in Japanese. For that, the UW student body should be grateful that they can even make the distinctions that they do, however erroneous they are.

However, that doesn’t mean that I think that he should be idolized or set up as a role model (unless your heroes are drunken wrestling referees).









[edit on 17-2-2006 by HowardRoark]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 12:26 PM
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How about as a monument to those who have overcome their foibles and failings to do a great service, and endure even greater hardship, for their fellow man, and for their country?

If you had been the man he was , and gone through what he went through at the hands of a brutal Japanese War Machine, you might have had a drinking problem and failed relationships, as well.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
If you had been the man he was , and gone through what he went through at the hands of a brutal Japanese War Machine, you might have had a drinking problem and failed relationships, as well.


The problem is that he was all of those things well before the war even started. One of the reasons that he signed up with the Flying Tigers was to escape his creditors.

Like I said, he did indeed make a positive contribution to the war. I don't deny that. I can’t say if that was in spite of, or if it was because of, his other failures.

All I am saying is to look at the reality of what he was.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by mxboy15u
I am early 20's. So what generation is that y?


Sorry! By the way you were talking (WWII and all that) I thought you were in your 50s or 60s.
I just wanted to understand better where you were coming from and now I think I do. Thanks.



Who cares, people my age are generally absolutely useless. The children of yuppies that can't move out of home because the world is a scary place.


Well, to be fair, it IS a scary place. And most of today's parents aren't properly preparing their kids to face it.



Lets all hide in grad school. Dodging adulthood seems to be my generations trademark.


Well, we need SOME people to go to college. We need doctors, engineers and scientists...



And colleges professors are mostly people who dodged adulthood successfully their whole life.... These are the people who indoctrinate another generation of spineless followers.


You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I strongly disagree.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Our country is following a path from its birth to the present...........

It has followed this path...........

.......from oppression to......

....to revolution of the oppressive governing via great courage and commitment....

.... through suffering and struggle under committed faith and belief of their purpose....

... and delayed grafitication and community discipline of purpose.........

.....to accomplishment and defender of freedom.....

.....to prosperity wealth and liberty........

.......to complacency, self absorbtion........

......to apathy, further selfishness and consumerism.....

.....to anachry.........

......and back to oppression.........

What stage do you think our country is an in this flow process??

..........and who willl keep us from falling about to being oppressed??

BTW..........three words to those college students.........who value some actor over a decorated war veteran......

"bataan death march"



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yeah, they really 'dishonored' him, didn't they? I think the fact that he was dishonorably discharged and was a "pugnacious heavy drinker" probably dishonored him more!




Greg Boyington was not dishonorably discharged from the United States Military. The term "dishonorable discharge" has been applied to his summary dismissal from the American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) by Claire Chennault, who himself had similar problems with authority.


General Chennault disagreed, however, with rival commanders about strategy in Asia. Disputes with authority eventually forced him to give up his command and leave China near the end of the war. The Chinese, though, regarded Chennault as a hero because of his leadership and personal commitment to China.

www.wpafb.af.mil


Boyington led a troubled life. He drank too much. His marriages were utter failures. His financial affairs were a mess. In fact, on these facts alone, you might think he was a Hollywood movie star.

The reason Greg Boyington is a hero is that before the US entered WWII in 1941, he was fighting the Japanese in China as a civilian member of the AVG and later, as a Marine pilot, he shot down more than twenty Japanese aircraft before being shot down himself and serving some two years in a Japanese prisoner of war camp, enduring severe torture during that time.

Boyington was the recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor and the Navy Cross, the highest and second highest awards for valor awarded by the United States.

As one site puts it:



There aren't many UW alumni who win the Medal of Honor, write a best-selling book and have Robert Conrad portray them in a TV series. In fact, there is only one: World War II Fighter Pilot Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, a 1934 engineering graduate who shot down 28 enemy planes as a Marine pilot.

www.medalofhonor.com



Originally posted by mxboy15u
This just in, Fox news reported this, and interviewed a member of the student council.

That member said that "he was no a great actor, he was somone [sic] who killed people"


It is my opinion that in this quote the student council member is using the term actor not as a profession, but in the sense of one who acts, referring to Boyington's checkered personal history and there is validity to that. Boyington was in hot water all his life. It is this part of this statement that is stupefying: "...he was somone who killed people," as though Boyington was in the same league as Ted Bundy.

It is a shame that we have a couple of generations of Americans who can't distinguish an American hero from a serial murderer.

Like I said before, Greg Boyington's memory deserves better than a place of honor at the University of Washington, unless his statue had him mooning the faculty and student body. It is likely that none of those people would even exist were it not for the likes of Gregory "Pappy" Boyington.



The President of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the CONGRESSIONAL MEDAL OF HONOR to


MAJOR GREGORY BOYINGTON


UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS RESERVE




for service as set forth in the following

CITATION:

For extraordinary heroism above and beyond the call of duty as Commanding Officer of Marine Fighting Squadron TWO FOURTEEN in action against enemy Japanese forces in Central Solomons Area from 12 September 1943 to 3 January 1944. Consistently outnumbered throughout successive hazardous flights over heavily defended hostile territory, Major Boyington struck at the enemy with daring and courageous persistence, leading his squadron into combat with devastating results to Japanese shipping, shore installations and aerial forces. Resolute in his efforts to inflict crippling damage on the enemy, Major Boyington led a formation of twenty-four fighters over Kahili on 17 October and, persistently circling the airdrome where sixty hostile aircraft were grounded, boldly challenged the Japanese to send up planes. Under his brilliant command, our fighters shot down twenty enemy craft in the ensuing action without the loss of a single ship. A superb airman and determined fighter against overwhelming odds, Major Boyington personally destroyed 26 of the many Japanese planes shot down by his squadron and by his forceful leadership developed the combat readiness in his command which was a distinctive factor in the Allied aerial achievements in this vitally strategic area.



/S/FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT



www.usmc.mil






[edit on 2006/2/17 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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futuretense


You could not be anymore correct. My grandfather was in WWII - Navy, he served as a Seabee. For those who don't know what that is:

A member of one of the construction battalions in the U.S. Navy that builds naval aviation bases and shore facilities.

He and his battalion built a gas plant in Guada Canal (Spelling?). This gas plant refueled Boxcar and Enola Gay so they could finish their mission against Japan.

My grandfather, at the age of 31, volunteered for this duty so he "do his part" for the war effort. He was always proud of that fact.

Today, people don't volunteer. They feel that freedom is OWED to them. It isn't owed to anyone. You have to fight for it. Fighting is is hard, dangerous, and deadly.

Boyington knew this. That is probably why he drank. My grandfather knew this. That is why he drank and smoked. Poeple are human and are suceptable to influences, particularly if they are in an ill-fated situation.

UW should be ashamed. This man fought because he was put there by his country. He could have chosen the easy way out and just roll over to die, but he did not. He chose the hard way. He chose to fight and fight he did.

Remember,if it was easy, everyone would being doing it.
Look at all the countries in the world.

Who has democracy and freedom?
Why do we have it?
How did we get it?
What are we doing to keeo it?



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 02:36 PM
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Hello Friends:

"Papy" Boyinton was quite a caracter,he had many women,got in all
kinds of fights,money trobles and problems with authorities,but he was
one of the most sucessful fighter pilots in WWII, he had to lead and
work out of conditions we wold'nt dream of and he find a way to serve his country and kill lost of enemies that was tring to kill him and other pilots
to me his a real hero!!




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