The Problem with believers

Well, ignoring the connotative versus denotative values of language for moment, if the nutty crunchy people want to believe that the alleged:

crop destruction
cattle mutilation
kidnapping (abduction)
forced implation of foreign objects
genetic experimentation without consent
forced cross breading (rape, either physical or in vitro)
memory erasure

is all groovy benevolent stuff, hey, more power to them *shrugs*

Sounds pretty hostile to me though.

As far as a space faring race wanting to take over our planet goes, c’mon people. Drop an asteroid on us. That’s pretty low tech.

Absolutely determined to save some of the buildings and stuff? Microwave (x-ray, gamma ray, neutron radiation) would do a real number on us, as would a wide variety of chemical and biological weapons seeded into the atmosphere.

We’re pretty easy to take out.

I can see the nutty crunchy people fearing that rather obvious observation and deluding themselves into believing that everything is just peachy keen… that’s a lot easier to do than to take actions and be prepared, ya know?

rock on
twj

True, we are easy to kill off. But what if they need us? Are we a resource? Personally I must admit, if I could capture an EBE I would give him the interrogation of his life. So many questions, so many.

Personally I must say I am for almost any attempt to help defend us from these creatures. If area 51 houses/housed any weapon we could use to...defend ourselves, I stand behind them.

I would think the same space faring race wouldn’t have problems enslaving us, either. Just the threat of a big rock from the sky would be enough for most folks… drop a little rock from time to time to keep the riff raff in line *shrugs*

we’re easy.

rock on
twj

Well guy's can I use my Mountain Gorilla analogy again here.

Does mankind benefit from the existence of Mountain Gorillas?

Or do we need to enslave them?

Or do we need to exterminate them so we can access their resources?


First question.

Of course we all benefit from Biodiversity. I can imagine this being true on a Galactic scale as well. Especially to any form of intelligent life. Just think how much Humans could benefit if we found and had access to another world full of life? We would not want to destroy it mindlessly.

Second question.

No we don't need or do we want Mountain Gorillas for slaves. They would only do us harm and and we would spend most of our time taking care of them instead of them doing any kind of beneficial work for us.

Third question.

No we don't need the resources of Mountain Gorillas. We benefit much more by allowing them to have there own place and we can just watch them. This would be true on a galactic scale. What does Earth have that other planets do not? If we for instance want farm land we don't go exterminate Mountain Gorillas to get farm land we just farm somewhere else.

I'm reminded of the scene from Independence Day, where all the believers stand atop the skyscraper holding placards to greet the visitors, right before those same visitors deploy their terrible weapon which wipes out half the city... But seriously Xeno you make a good point. If a human authority were to behave in the manner in which these vile creatures do and word was leaked, all hell would be let loose.

To say our basic rights as humans is being horrendously infringed upon would be a massive understatement. I am of the opinion that if they (the greys) are indeed benevolent then subterfuge would be entirely unneccesary. What are they hiding? Why the secrecy? Why don't they just ASK if we want to go to their ship for a bit of probing? All seems a bit dodgy if you ask me.

Ya, well, if that Mountain Gorilla happens to be squating onna mountain fulla minerals that I want, I can tell you who is gonna loose.

Same goes for that cute little rainforest monkey or that oh so groovy whale.

When it comes to turning a profit biodiversity takes a back seat.

Trawling, strip mining and slash and burn baby *laughs*

rock on
twj

Originally posted by torbjon
Ya, well, if that Mountain Gorilla happens to be squating onna mountain fulla minerals that I want, I can tell you who is gonna loose.

Same goes for that cute little rainforest monkey or that oh so groovy whale.

When it comes to turning a profit biodiversity takes a back seat.

Trawling, strip mining and slash and burn baby *laughs*

rock on
twj

What you talked about above is exactly what we have been doing for the last millenium.

I have 1 question for you: HOW HAS THAT WORKED OUT SO FAR??

Or maybe you see the destruction of our life-giving planet as a good thing...

torbjon,

Of course. This is why I used this type of example , because many of our problems today stem from the quick profits people took many years ago.

Where are all the rich Whalers today? There are none. We spend millions even billions of dollars globally to protect the few whales we have left.

How much have you benefited from the clear cutting of Americas old growth forests? Even though some one probably got rich at the time, I take it that you don't benefit at all from that. You would however be able to benefit from them if these forests still existed.

The most amazing and beneficial drugs and medicines we have to treat our illnesses have come from discoveries made in the Plant and animal kingdoms. Those are worth much more to us as a civilization than the few dollars made by individuals that ravage the environment for a quick profit.

Even we as Humans with such a short History are having to learn these lessons the hard way by suffering today to correct the mistakes made in the past.

Well as for killing the planet , im not sure how anyone can stop it ,
Considering the more people you have the more resources you need .

and the Population of the world is getting bigger all the time .

There are alot of places in the world where Goverments can plant Forest .
especialy now a days when they can splice and dice the genetics of plants
and make them grow taller , faster , ect ect .

Midwest USA is a good example of hundreds of thousands of acres that are tree less .

That's right Briggs we are still making big mistakes today that will be even bigger problems in the future.

Gene splicing and genetic manipulation doesn't solve our problems either. It isn't possible to create a rainforest in the Lab , nature does this over millions of years. Once its gone however its gone forever.

The thing with us as a societies is that we have problems thinking five years into the future much less hundreds or thousands of years into the future.

Now to tie this in with the E.T. discussion, for E.T.s to have survived and maintained a civilization that would allow them to discover Earth and get here they would have most likely learned the same type of lessons we are having to learn if they survived them.

Just think even we as Humans will most likely end up terraforming new worlds, not destroying them. Why would E.T.s come here just to destroy when there are literally countless other worlds that are not inhabited.

The truth is the only thing Earth does have that other planets do not is life.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

Hey dont get So Puffy about my post , your turning purple .

All i did was state the facts , not beliefs.

huh?

I was just making the point about life being valuable and not easily replaceable and the belief that E.T.s are here to destroy it makes no sense.

Since you mention it I do have something to say about what you posted.

There are alot of places in the world where Goverments can plant Forest .
especialy now a days when they can splice and dice the genetics of plants
and make them grow taller , faster , ect ect .

Midwest USA is a good example of hundreds of thousands of acres that are tree less .

The Midwest is called the Great Plains. Why? Because forests won't grow there.

I hope that wasn't your solution to deforestation.

The fact is that we have to have life and Biodiversity on this Planet for us to survive.

Why wouldn't that be true for another life form on another Planet?

[edit on 15-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

If a Alien came to you in a peacefull way and offered to take you to its planet and learn about new stuff . .. But you could never return to earth
.. Would you go ? .

During the 50's and 60's special camera's wer made that could take Millions of frames per min/sec ? of vid footage .

these cameras wer used to take footage of Nuke explosions .

why hasnt this footage been shown to the public ? . if it has - point me in the right direction .
peronally I dont think it has .

and no i dont mean footage they have been showing for yrs now of nukes blowing up . from 10 , 20 miles away .

Originally posted by lost_shaman
huh?

I was just making the point about life being valuable and not easily replaceable and the belief that E.T.s are here to destroy it makes no sense.

Since you mention it I do have something to say about what you posted.

There are alot of places in the world where Goverments can plant Forest .
especialy now a days when they can splice and dice the genetics of plants
and make them grow taller , faster , ect ect .

Midwest USA is a good example of hundreds of thousands of acres that are tree less .

The Midwest is called the Great Plains. Why? Because forests won't grow there.

I hope that wasn't your solution to deforestation.

The fact is that we have to have life and Biodiversity on this Planet for us to survive.

Why wouldn't that be true for another life form on another Planet?

[edit on 15-2-2006 by lost_shaman]

wow your just being a arse tonight .. im in not getting into post it war tonight ,no matter how tempting it may be .
maybe tomorrow.

Its not about " post wars " with me.

Its about people believing that E.T.s come here to kill Humans or take our resources. And how that doesn't make any sense.

i agree .
but my post wer not about aliens and such .

doesnt matter , i still love ya brother .

good night .

*rolls eyes*

I was being ironic... moronic? some kind of ha ha onic. I though the 'burn baby' was a give away...

sorry 'bout that.

however, IF the alleged aliens are only after our resources, I really can't see "life" standing in their way, ya know?

As I stated in an earlier post, Some of these alleged aliens don't seem too benevolent to me... abductions, implantations, cattle mutilations etc seem like uncaring hostile acts... add to that buzzing of civilian and millitary aircraft and messing with our nuclear missles, well, they are either kids that need to be spanked or a threat that needs to be taken seriously.

twj

Originally posted by torbjon

however, IF the alleged aliens are only after our resources, I really can't see "life" standing in their way, ya know?

My point was to stress the fact that the life on Earth would be Earth's most precious resource.

Everything else that Earth has can be found elsewhere on uninhabited Planets.

perhaps...

if there are aliens, then there is life on other planets, too, right? Perhaps lots of life for all we know... making that particular commodity less than precious. Life is pretty prolific... it doesn't take much of a seed stock to culture and grow more of the stuff, ya know?

If you are talking about human culture being precious, well, it's precious to Us, sure, but is it precious to other living things (here on Earth or elsewhere)?

I'm not up on the chemical make up of our solar system or the universe in general... just how much gold, slver, copper, uranium (heavy metals) is out there in a place and form that can be easily (profitably) harvested?

Maybe the life aspect of our planet that they find interesting isn't so much our human culture, but rather just the complex hydrocarbons life here is composed of...

too many variables.

I still think some of the alleged aliens are pretty hostile... maybe an anal probe is the rest of the universes way of saying Hello, but I'll pass, thanks.

rock on
twj

[edit on 15-2-2006 by torbjon]