Staying Together "For the Kids" ???

Got my girlfriend pregnant about 5 years ago and have stuck it out with her. I am very unhappy in my relationship, but I'm afraid to leave cause I love my little girl very much, and I'm concerned that my girlfriend will do everything she can to keep me from seeing her if I leave. I feel she trapped me, because we had been broke up for a month when she told me she was pregnant. I wanted to get a DNA test, but the hospital wanted $1500 to do it and I didn't have the money at the time. Now, even if my little girl isn't mine biologically, it would tear me up to find out she wasn't, so I quit worrying about that. But I'm still trapped with a woman I'm really not in love with, for the sake of my little girl.

Originally posted by NJE777
Anyway, my comments probably couldnt come at a worst time for you, but just wanted to respond to you 'simple' statement.

all the best

Sometimes "all the best" ammounts to people taking time to say less.

You know as far as people judgining OTHERS it's just a freakin shame. You can NOT judge others and say it's simple you just take precautions or become surgically altered- temporarily even- and for God's sake you don't say it to someone AFTER the fact-what good does that do? To add insult to injury?

There are many reasons even the BEST methods of birth control FAIL sometimes...and unless someone finds themselves in the same unwanted pregnancy situation more than once NO ONE has ANY right to say what they SHOULD have done.

I DID notice the "?" at the end of LostSailors comment of "she just takes a pill...problem solved?" and realize he is saying it seems so simple but it is NOT and he realizes this.

Geez...I should NOT get into this subject...but really even birth control pills are only 99.9% effective if taken perfectly...there is still going to be that occassional pregnancy with them...then there are broken condoms and you might as well be using a rubber band...and all other efforts even less effective and the FACT is for some people unwanted pregnancies are going to be a reality in life and a little less judgemental attitude from the outsiders would be welcome.

I was involved personally with an unwanted pregnancy at 19 freakin years old...I was just a kid...still a teen really...and suffered enough of the judgements of others and heard what should have been done and what HAD to be done by everyone looking in and judging...and in contrast to LostSailor abortion really was not an option (it was offered, just vehemenantly refused) and unlike stompf, marriage, or a relationship raising the baby together wasn't an option either...so adoption was the answer.

Fact is...there is no perfect answer and you can't judge ANYONE for their difficult decisions. I grieve over the son I've never known, everytime I look at his picture I wonder if he will ever ever want to meet me...forgive me...could ever love me

LostSailor is going to grieve the same and about more, and stompf grieves the life he lives for the love of his child...

There are regrets no matter what, here are 3 people who had different outcomes...adoption, marriage, abortion... who is to judge us unless you have been there? NONE of them are simple and trust me, we KNOW it.

...and if you have been there... I am confident you KNOW it...and should not judge...be your choice the same or different you have been there and would not judge another...and if you do...if you have been there and judge others still...or for their choices...then twice the shame on your head.

(I speak to anyone who may come accross this thread-no one in particular any longer)

LostSailor I am sorry for your situation, decisions and the consequences. I applaud you for supporting your girlfriend in whatever she decided and standing by her to support her in any way you could.

Stompf-you too are to be appluaded for stepping up and trying to do the right thing and give your child a family and home. I hope it all works out for you some way and I also applaud you for deciding you don't need to know if she is your biological daughter now at this point-that shows the purest love for your child NOW...however, a day may come where you may want to confirm that for biological/medical reasons, just as you would have been wise to do so in the begining.

Well, thats all I have time and inclination to say on BTS tonight. Off to spend some quality time with my spouse....I hope.

Originally posted by think2much
Well, thats all I have time and inclination to say on BTS tonight. Off to spend some quality time with my spouse....I hope.

Having posted in this thread back towards the beginning, I can only say this is one of the best things I have read ALL day!

think2much, it seems perserverance, committment and determination may again win in the end. As with many things in life, hope, is often all we have.

think2much and family!

[edit on 4/8/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by stompk
Got my girlfriend pregnant about 5 years ago and have stuck it out with her. I am very unhappy in my relationship, but I'm afraid to leave cause I love my little girl very much, and I'm concerned that my girlfriend will do everything she can to keep me from seeing her if I leave. I feel she trapped me, because we had been broke up for a month when she told me she was pregnant. I wanted to get a DNA test, but the hospital wanted $1500 to do it and I didn't have the money at the time. Now, even if my little girl isn't mine biologically, it would tear me up to find out she wasn't, so I quit worrying about that. But I'm still trapped with a woman I'm really not in love with, for the sake of my little girl.

I feel if that was myself in the situation I would have to leave the woman and make every attempt to be in your childs life on a daily basis. If your really not happy in your relationship, this frustration will trickle down into your activities with your daughter. I grew up in a home where my mother and father were not together, they were friends who would have their arguments. It never crossed my mind once that they did not love each other, they just could not be together. My mother would sometimes talk down of my father, but never would he say a word of my mother.

It was not the perfect environment but I turned out alright, and I am sure your daughter will as well. You owe it to your daughter to be the happiest you can be, putting yourself through what you are right now is not the only solution.

A woman who has gone out of her way to trap you in the situation she has, is not deserving of a man like yourself who is bending over backwards at every corner in order to save his family.

(Dont Let her read this)

There was and is no judgement, but you can make of it what you will.

He was asking an indirect question and I responded...what should I censor or walk on egg shells? because it might be rubbing salt into the wounds?? I think not.
Where in my response does it judge? It doesn't. I have focused on the 'simple' point. If X doesn't want Y or Z's perspective, then X shouldn't post a question.

Originally posted by NJE777
He was asking an indirect question and I responded...

He was not asking an indirect question, but a rhetorical one that showed though a proposed solution was that she "simply take a pill" he did NOT feel it was so simple as a pill and problem solved at all.

You did not just respond to his question anyway, as if it had been one asked in general, but instead you chose to rattle off your POV on birth control as if all unwanted pregnancies could be avoided, or this one could have, and then go on to cling to the word "simple" and proceed to twist the entire tone and meaning of it as if he had been saying...'I don't know what the big deal is, she simply takes a pill and voila! Problem solved! Yea!" ... as if he'd done nothing to try to prevent the pregnancy in the first place and thought abortion the logical 'simple' choice.

Originally posted by NJE777
what should I censor or walk on egg shells? because it might be rubbing salt into the wounds?? I think not. (snip) I have focused on the 'simple' point. If X doesn't want Y or Z's perspective, then X shouldn't post a question.

OMG! I can't believe you are going to take a chastizing for your insensitivities and make it about censorship? OMG that is a rich twist.

No, you don't have to censor yourself but try checking yourself sometime and TRY not to twist what people say.

No, you don't have to walk on eggshells either but at least know WTH you are talking about if you are going to not give a damn about others and if you feel justified in rubbing salt in their wounds all for the sake of free uncensored speech apparently.

If you are responding personally to someone about a persopnal topic, and find you are really just sounding off, and doing nothing beneficial for their morale... all because YOU think he should have been surgically altered perhaps, or because unwanted pregnancies can all be avoided...and you are going to somehow judge that he didn't use proper precautions nor she in this situation...and because you mistake his rhetorical question as a some statement that abortions are so simple. etc...then you may want to check yourself and motivations for your response.

I say "X" can state or question anything he/she wants, but it doesn't mean Y and Z SHOULD just sound off for the sake of sounding off, even if they WANT to...perhaps you were never Y or Z anyway, you know?

Here is someone looking for support and friendship on a forumn he felt comfortable on a thread he felt he might have a link to...being a prospective parent now...possibly facing staying together for his possible child...or dealing with abortion...if you are going to be supportive helpful or at least sympathetic if not empathetic, then you are likely Y and Z...if not...you are likely not.

So if you want to be the Y or Z going around answering ever X's question, I'd say, no you don't have to walk on eggshells, I know I don't...but at LEAST be decent enough to check yourself and ask yourself...hey, are my comments to help or harm? What good will it do (besides making one feel superior in some way)and am I then Y, Z that should be giving my POV here?

Butf you feel it isn't to help or be a positive contribution...then maybe...realize you are not the intended Y or Z for that X, that thread, that board...thats all.

No kid gloves necessary-just be selective about what you say and to whom maybe sometimes? But maybe it's just not in your nature to be a sensitive or caring person, I don't know. In that case I speak in vain.

Oh, and where were you judgemental you asked as well, well if you are honestly perplexed and wondering so perhaps you can check yourself, your judgement was apparent in your post's tone, descriptions of proper birth control and apparent failure to see that 'simple' statement for what it was etc just as your defensive coldness now in analyzing your right to answer his indirect question as a person on the forumn etc b/c it was asked...is apparent to me

But then again, maybe I should check myself in speaking to you about this here.

Originally posted by think2much
Well, thats all I have time and inclination to say on BTS tonight. Off to spend some quality time with my spouse....I hope.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
Having posted in this thread back towards the beginning, I can only say this is one of the best things I have read ALL day!

think2much, it seems perserverance, committment and determination may again win in the end. As with many things in life, hope, is often all we have.

think2much and family!

Thanks. Yes, it is written that sometimes if we just have a hope something is true/real it is enough- just to hold some bit of hope- to see us through. I have at least hope that everything will be as it ought to be.

It isn't easy and granted I do spout off and vent only about the negative here, but yes, there is always hope and we must cling to it...for ourselves, our children, our families...

Family/marriage-...it's the most difficult institution there is...but it is also the most rewarding and sacred and so it really is worth the trials one must go through sometimes...to make it stronger and better.

We are trying! And for that we must have hope.

Originally posted by think2much
Family/marriage-...it's the most difficult institution there is...but it is also the most rewarding and sacred and so it really is worth the trials one must go through sometimes...to make it stronger and better.

Amen!

ok think2much...& lostsailor

grrrr, well your going to get an apology and if you knew me at all, you would know how hard that is for me to do, in a personal setting let alone on a public forum. I have needed 2 days to think about my response. And yes, my response was hard and detached. Shame on me.

Rather than live in denial or perpetuate the err of my ways, I would like to apologise. To be blunt, the simple statement, infuriated me. I wont go into personal details. But it did. Who rubbed salt into who's wounds???

All I will say, from personal experience that 'it' is no simple matter, it is a huge decision to make. Rather than incriminate myself futher, think2much, thanks for

Thank you,

If you knew me at all you would know I was being facetious with the "simple" comment. I know personally it is not a simple situation to be in. Have you looked into the details of what taking this pill entails? I won't describe it here... But... I know someone experiencing it first hand as we speak. If you get what I mean.

I'm going to hell in a bucket.

Originally posted by NJE777
Rather than live in denial or perpetuate the err of my ways, I would like to apologise.

Boy that is not something you see every day. I don't mean from you specifically, I just mean in general.

Thank you.

I think we can understand how in "the heat of the moment" sometimes something personal is triggered in us, and we almost involuntarily vent from within, our deep personal offenses at things because of our own personal experiences/unhealed wounds... when they may not necessarily have been the actual issue at hand.

I do understand your POV and I think everyone can agree, it is no 'simple' matter. None of it.

Originally posted by LostSailor
Have you looked into the details of what taking this pill entails? I won't describe it here... But... I know someone experiencing it first hand as we speak. If you get what I mean.

I'm going to hell in a bucket.

LostSailor, I am so sorry for what you and she are going through. A misscarriage, especially an induced one, is a physically and emotionally painful tragedy for a woman, and not easy for a man to bear with her, and witness.

My thoughts are with you both. Sincerely.

I am really sorry that you have had to experience this. It is an absolute hole...for both parties. (not in all circumstances) When you experience it, if you are not careful, you become hardened and push more towards contraception...because it does hurt and it is so painful. To be very honest, I share in this experience, oh gee...like its so obvious! I would like to turn back time. But I can't.
Can't believe I am speaking on such a personal note! Oh gawd!!!!

I think you got (unfortunately) some of MY emotional baggage. I guess my anger comes from my own pain and being angry that someone else is having to experience it...but, I tell you what, you will make sure it doesnt happen again because it is just too painful to experience twice.


I am not sure if this helps but on a spiritual level, I had so much guilt/regret and this is by no way preaching...cos I am not your typical Christian...but I know that God forgave me, so I have the pain but not the guilt. Its a heart felt thing. LIke in my darkest hour (and it was) I felt so much compassion. The Universe forgave me and so it was easier to forgive myself. You are not going to hell in a bucket because your heart says otherwise.

Both of my sisters have children who came from divorced marriages…I’ve watched them grow up, and while I’ve seen it take its toll on everyone from the kids to the adults, I think they’ve developed well psychologically – If you think you’re a good parent will you’re still a couple, then my perception is you have to double those skills once separated…

I see the desire to stay together for the children as an unconscious selfish desire of the parents…

They are too attached to their lifestyles to want to let go…Even if it means they may be risking a potentially damaging upbringing….

You cannot assume that b/c all is functioning smoothly now, save the marriage, that all will be functioning smoothly ten years from now…

My best friend is getting married in a month…He’s not marrying his fiancée – He’s marrying the job her parents gave him – I’ve told him this to his face and he seems to linger on it for a moment as though contemplating the validity of this statement – Then he simply kind of gives a concerned chuckle and changes the subject….

They already fight more than he did with his ex-girlfriend…

Yet they’re dead-set on marrying…And I think it has more to do with the investment both their families have made thus far in the arrangements, their personal regrets for what it would mean if they backed out, and the way they want other people to see them…

Those are not reasons to marry….Nor are they reasons to remain married…Especially with children – I pray they won’t have children….They can’t even keep up with their dog…

Detachment is painful…Not seeing the kids for a week or two is painful…Helping them adjust is painful…

Watching them grow up in a much more stable environment is NOT painful…

Living a married life for show IS painful…

Sometimes I wonder…If Lester hadn’t died in American Beauty, where would they all be?

[edit on 4/16/2006 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
I see the desire to stay together for the children as an unconscious selfish desire of the parents…

They are too attached to their lifestyles to want to let go…Even if it means they may be risking a potentially damaging upbringing…

WOW

*ponders this seriously*

I can agree with that perspective... to some degree. Especially when you speak of your best friend marrying the job his fiances parents are giving him, and what they would both lose if they backed out *now*, namely face.

However, while I understand in general this may be true, that sometimes we stay married not for the children, but for the comfort of the situation otherwise, I do not think that is our particular situation.

We, or at least *I* do not care about staying together for the sake of mere familiar comfort or saving face-at one time I did, yes, but that was pre-kids anyway and a long time ago.

Now, I do admit I do not like the possible new logistics involved if we were to seperate it's true. Plus, the financial toll it would take would be difficult, and the new schedules it would bring into our basically orderly and routine life would be chaos in comparrison-but new routines and order would be established shortly I am confident.

We have been so close to actually getting this divorce that all of this has been thought of, and I am confident, if we were to split amicably, that things would progress for a smooth transition and a new routine. So in deciding to stay together "for the kids" it is not about saving face for us, or using them as some type of excuse not to give up what we have routine wise...it is an issue of what do we think is the best for the kids-honestly.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
You cannot assume that b/c all is functioning smoothly now, save the marriage, that all will be functioning smoothly ten years from now…

No, we can't and I honestly don't think that way. For instance, our children are young, our oldest and only one in school just turned 7, his sister turns 5 this summer and starts school in the fall. Their baby brother will be 3 in July. Much will change in 10 years and things are going to get more complicated-I know this.

For example, my oldest will be driving, likely working, and a senior in highschool preparing for his last year in highschool, choosing a college, and my other two will be in highschool/JrHigh (which is at the same school here) and all I imagine will be involved in sports, academic clubs and active in church and on very busy schedules. Sometimes during the next 10 years we will buy/build a new home as well, and have to improve our property to do so. There will be more trials, more to do in general in ouir lives I realize-for everyone.

Changes for my spouse and I may include career changes/ and returning to college as well...yes, things are likely to get very chaotic in our lives indeed, in the next 10 years, but it doesn't mean they wont run smoothly, and if it does turn out that we are not offering the best life for our kids together, than I believe we would seperate-if that ever truly becomes the case-right now it is not the case though. Even though we've had stress, and not always been the most positive, loving, affectionate examples as a couple, we have been good, loving, affectionate parents and created a good home for our kids despite our marital problems and shortcomings.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Detachment is painful…Not seeing the kids for a week or two is painful…Helping them adjust is painful…

Watching them grow up in a much more stable environment is NOT painful…

See, thats what I'm saying, we are not an unstable environment-not to them at least. If so, I do think we would divorce "for the kids." We do want the best for them.

They do not witness us fighting ( other than a few tense words in the recent past perhaps). We do see how our stress and detachement has not been a healthy example though...you know the whole not sleeping in the same bed isn't something they ever questioned or thought "hey, what's wrong... one of our parents in our bed sleeping...or on the couch sleeping" because unfortunately this is all they've known, so it didn't stress them out. You see?

WOW. Yeah...hmmm...I know. That is whacked.

*sigh*

We realize that is NOT the example of relationships/marriage we want to give them though-trust me. But what I am saying is where we have failed them is in not giving them an example of a loving and affectionate marriage, but it has not been an openly negative, as in hostile, environment you see-one where they'd be better off with us divorced. It's not a raging hell of stressful and bitter rainstorms around them at all. We have stayed together for the "right reasons" and suffered silently for the most part, because it has been good for the kids, not out of pure convenience for ourselves. Though I have questioned my motives-I promise.

But it goes deeper than the surface here anyway. I always thought if the winds of change didn't come to change my situation entirely, they would come to change my spouse to be more of what I neededor set me free. The winds of change even blowed in by God himself-I even prayed for them.

...and they did come, but not as expected. They were more the winds of destruction to stir us up out of our apathetic complacency and false senses of security and destroy the facade of what we had so something new could be built...but we had to wonder...together...or seperately now?

What was best...for the kids... and us.

Once those winds came blowing in there was no stopping them. It did cause stress and discord in our marriage and relationship, which was founded on vows, but not true emotion, intimacy, trust or love....and they did blow hard and stirred up the deepest negative feelings and unresolved issues in our pasts...and it did affect the kids, shake up their foundation a bit, because before we supressed it all so well.

I say they did come, the winds of change, and they did blow hard, but to be more honest, they were aided in their destruction and invited/instigated even, by me.

I stirred them up as I stirred us up out of our complacency, when I was faced by the tragedies of my past, and I become very uncertain of what the future held for the present life I was living. I did not want more tragedy, more regrets, and I wanted an end to the pain I surpressed, and the complete and total isolation I felt as a captive hostage in my life-a prisoner in my marriage. I wanted freedom. Freedom from everything/everyone (except my kids)

We did admittedly get married for the wrong reasons. Not identical to your friend, and not because of pregnancy, but still for many of the wrong reasons. I don't think we knew it at the time though... I had my honest misgivings, but...well...

I had an apparently unrealistic view of relationships too when we married -that they weren't really permenant, lasting. Nothing in my life had been very permanent it seemed...so to me, you just kind of made decisions knowing even if it wasn't the best idea, choice etc...the winds of change would come sweep it all away and a new start would be given to me eventually.

Anyway, other than those winds causing stress, and some detachment that was already prevalent becoming more obvious, our children are not in a situation right now where they would benefit, be better off, if we were to seperate and divorce.

However I am confident now, that if we were to seperate, amicably or not, they would of course adapt....and if amicably, all the more so and quicker.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Living a married life for show IS painful…

Sometimes I wonder…If Lester hadn’t died in American Beauty, where would they all be?

American Beauty-an instantly favorite movie. My best friend bought me a copy as a gift I liked it so much.

Anyway...maybe it's just running and I felt I had stayed put long enough, for the sake of others...but now I have to wonder, how sweet could selfish freedom be?

Married life for show IS painful, but it's not a marriage for show for us-not anymore at least. I think everyone we know has knowledge of our trials now and we are more aware to of the hell we personally have felt we were living in and putting the other through.

My spouse said at first, thats they were in oblivion not knowing we had such severe problems and it all came as a shock. But the reality is, it was self deception, as they have voiced much of their own personal reasons of (supressed) discontent in our life together...how truly happy could they have been with such repressed feelings and thoughts?

Even if they did love me/do love me as they say...could that and the well running functionality of our marriage/family been enough to sustain them for a lifetime despite their (barely)supressed negativities. See, I knew of the discontent in me, and supposed it in them, saw it in them, even what they denied to themself. It could not go on like that forever. Living a marriage for show, or in personal denial is hell, but it will not last-it will collapse, the facades fall, and fail.

We are no longer...*I* am no longer living a marriage for show in anyway. For others outside our marriage, for our spouse, our kids or staying together for the kids. My spouse and I are truly endeavoring to see if we can start over-build a new foundation instead of trying to repair the old one, and neither of us are content with the idea of living a lie, a marriage for show.

Yes, I am motivated to do it in part for the kids, because the deserve their parents, in love and being a loving example in the home as a family, but I endeavor to do it for myself and spouse as well-not just for the kids now.

If we fail, we know we tried, honestly, and will respect one another I believe, love one another for trying, honestly trying, and be good examples to our kids, to know you don't give up-you try and if you fail, it isn't the end of the world. Life goes on, but you have to try.

I'm trying/staying together for my kids yes, but also for myself and for my spouse. I'm staying together for all of us now. Trying. 100%. If at any time I think it is detrtimental for my kids, I would not-will not.

But I am rambling more than usual I think, and preoccupied-with my kids! So I am off to go outside and play with them!

[edit on 17-4-2006 by think2much]