War on terror with wrong countries?

When talking about War on Terror (WoT), let's keep in mind, what the terrorism really is. By definition, terrorism is using violence to push political belief's, gain more money or power.

Therefore Cicero paying gangs of thugs to terrorise Romans (while speaking about how he, if he get elected, create order) was terroristic act w/o doubt. There is both violence and political (and therefore economical) gains as well.

Same could be spoken about Hitler NSA, terrorising Germans, while he is speaking about order... And when he need to push through "Enabling Act", Reichstag burn. Maybe not with his before knowledge, but he sure gain most of it.

When GWBush want push out on Iraq, WTC has to burn down. Maybe it not happen with full before-knowledge, yet he and his government gained most. And also let's not forget how he react on 9/11 when he got the message "Nation is under attack." It alone suggest before knowledge of events in 9/11. The Iraq occupation architected before 9/11 is a strong evidence too.

Now - is not the WoT waged by the very same people, that should - at least - first explain what happened, show the evidence promised to be released in "due time" (Condi about Iraq - 9/11 ties), release the already existing evidence of the 9/11 attacks and stop hiding whatever they are hiding?

I could not help thinking that the WoT is waged by the very same people, that are more that likely responsible for the boom of terrorism, anti-americanism and that their actions actually fueling the terrorists fire?
(even according to CIA, Iraq is now a heaven for terrorists and with every other dead civilian, the number of terrorists and their sympathizants rise dramatically...)

So, despite my feeling that the war on terror is missing their goals (what is his goals anyway, when GWBush admited that he did not spent time on Osama anymore - on alleged mass murderer, who murdered 2973 US civilians on 9/11?!) - should not be the WoT waged against people that are responsible at least? I mean - if the detained ones on camp X-ray on Guantanamo w/o accusations are guilty - then why they aren't stood before jury to their fate are determined? Since they aren't trialed yet, one could assume that they aren't guilty.
(side note, no-one is guilty before he stand trial and is found guilty)

Should not we rather focus on people, that are started all this and possibly even carried out 9/11? After all, it is the very same people that after WW2 managed to bomb 21 countries - the US government!
Still not enough spoken to make someone think twice about what is going on? So, let's recapitulate what they do in past 60 years - just major events to keep the post sort of short:

1953: USA overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. And install Shah as dictator. CIA operation AJAX en.wikipedia.org...

1954: USA overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
en.wikipedia.org...

1963: USA back assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million people in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: USA stages coup in Chile. Democratically-elected President Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: USA backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980's: USA trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives then $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: USA provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. USA invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties.

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from USA and with USA blessing.

1991: USA enter Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. UN estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-01: USA gives Taliban-rules Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

Sept. 11, 2001: US secret services with Mossad cooperation carry out deceptive action that destroy all 7 WTC buildings (all owned be only person, Larry Silverstein - his son is US ambassador, BTW), test Pentagon building by bunker buster and generate one crater near Shanksville, PN. 2972 US citizen's pay with their lives for the treachery that allow US government to go in the war in Afghanistan (for the "magic pipeline" by Unocal), in Iraq (for the second largest oil reserve on planet and money for war and following rebuild) and finally for the never ending "war on terror", witch works only as cover-op to take freedom off American people.





[edit on 23/1/2006 by trodas]

[edit on 23/1/2006 by trodas]

[edit on 23/1/2006 by trodas]

[edit on 23/1/2006 by trodas]

trodas!
Your post is revealing but cartoon is really wonderful.
May be some of us may not agree with some of the evidence you write. However, every word of the captions in the cartoon is true. And it is true that the real target of the so-called WOT are people of USA.

Terrorists aim is the war with U.S.A. with object of damaging U.S. way of living/civilisation, they get it.

U.S. president claimed terrorists will not succeed, defenders of civilisation and the human rights have succeeded in doing the things the terrorists wanted to do.

U.S citizens have the same status and rights and liberties as Soviet citizens had in the days of U.S.S.R.

U.S. has lost its credability as flag bearer of human rights and interntional justice so as world leader.

No doubt U.S. is the mightiest, and might is right. President of U.S.A. is the strongest, he should be hard for the U.S. admin created terrorists, but soft for the U.S.A. citizens.

Thanks!
These cartones is drawn by Khalil Bendib, his page is there:
bendib.com...
...and I created somewhat big gaery of his images:
ax2.old-cans.com...
or list
ax2.old-cans.com...
Because I find some missing ones on his own site in due time, so I created a backup

Talking about the topic - well, I was surprised how the "land of the free" turned out not to be free. A bad surprise, I might add... And with the torturing - man - America is now toe-to-toe with regimes as was the Saddam one... And all this - for what?
To some of the riches get richer on war? And other pay with their own life? And there I mean mainly the Iraquis, since US soldiers go villingly to war, so they has to expect face loses. That is what war is...

One question mate....
are you saying they managed to bomb 21 countries in 60 years or are you saying they bombed 21 countries in a decade or 2?

Sixty years is six decades, unless I missed something.

Basicaly it was counted from end of WW2 I almost lost a friend thanks to "humanitarian bombing" of "Serbian military stuff", witch mostly killed civilians, so... I somewhat can't forget the lies and it also show a nice comparsion to the Russians (you know, Russians = evil commies) behaviour after WW2.
One have to realize that altrought they are very bad, they are nowhere near what US of A did... Quite a surprise it was to me...

Originally posted by trodas
Sixty years is six decades, unless I missed something.

Basicaly it was counted from end of WW2

I almost lost a friend thanks to "humanitarian bombing" of "Serbian military stuff", witch mostly killed civilians, so... I somewhat can't forget the lies and it also show a nice comparsion to the Russians (you know, Russians = evil commies) behaviour after WW2.
One have to realize that altrought they are very bad, they are nowhere near what US of A did...

Quite a surprise it was to me...

Uh right...so because in 60 years the US bombed 21 countries that means its bad right?
Care to do a count of how many countries MY country invaded ransacked and killed in its existance and compare it?
The US doesnt even enter into the same division as the UK or any of the older powers when it comes to attacks and warcrimes.

You want to complain about the US?
Tell me one reason why the US is so dammed worse than ANY other country? Eh?

Well, you got a point. England was in past a shining example of imperial collonialism True enought.
However in last 60 years aren't nowhere near as bad as US. True, Britons helped Americansl like lapdog's almost everywhere, however their contribution to the deaths of innocent are rather small and I would call them more civilized...

My point, however, is, that every nation did pretty ugly things in heir past. It won't help much bringing it all up and making it as sort of "de-demonizing" of USA, since they are rather new country and probably did not even last enough.

I compared the last 60 years, because this is the last 60 years when people can break or fussion (or fission) atoms. The atomic age. Manking now have the power to not only destroy themselves, but perhaps destroy the whole planet - or at least kill every higher life form on it for pretty long time.

Therefore one should expect that people take their responsibility and won't push each other to do bad things. However it looks like there is certain nation of murderers, who systematically igniting conflict's all around the globe while permamently talking about freedoms, democracy and human rights - while at the same time taking freedoms, lives, destroying democratic governments that did not seems fit to them, installing dictators and then occupating countries to get rid of these "tyrants". Meanwhile steping upon every basic human right. That is why you can't compare past crimes with todays ones.

Besides, into the collonial years was everyone doing it. If England was not doing it, then someone else could take the place. We just need time to learn how to live with theirselfs, respecting others and did not starting wars for profit....

And that could be called civilized.
What US of A is doing is the exact oposite and the arrogance of all the lies surrounding their goals makes someone rethink if Hitler was as evil, as they are now.
Because with Hitler - it was apparent. No hiding. He said what he think openly and admit the goals and won't call killing people "liberating"...
Maybe it is just me, but I can't stand these lies.

I quess I prefer murderer who stands for what he believe, instead of murdering lying thief.

Originally posted by trodas
Well, you got a point. England was in past a shining example of imperial collonialism

True enought.

England? Thats being a bit ignorant yes no?

However in last 60 years aren't nowhere near as bad as US. True, Britons helped Americansl like lapdog's almost everywhere, however their contribution to the deaths of innocent are rather small and I would call them more civilized...

I resent that remark.
Britain has not been "americas lap dog" for 60 years, frankly if your only picking the last 60 then why the hell are you doing so?
Is the last 60 years SOOO much more important than the other 1946 years so much more unimportant?

My point, however, is, that every nation did pretty ugly things in heir past. It won't help much bringing it all up and making it as sort of "de-demonizing" of USA, since they are rather new country and probably did not even last enough.

Oh so your saying its ok to demonize the US then?

I compared the last 60 years, because this is the last 60 years when people can break or fussion (or fission) atoms. The atomic age. Manking now have the power to not only destroy themselves, but perhaps destroy the whole planet - or at least kill every higher life form on it for pretty long time.

So??
We've had the power to do that for about a century. Bio and chemilogical warfare, mabye you'd like to tell the few living men who survived a WW1 gas attack that their actions wherent as important as the last 60 years.

Therefore one should expect that people take their responsibility and won't push each other to do bad things. However it looks like there is certain nation of murderers, who systematically igniting conflict's all around the globe while permamently talking about freedoms, democracy and human rights - while at the same time taking freedoms, lives, destroying democratic governments that did not seems fit to them, installing dictators and then occupating countries to get rid of these "tyrants". Meanwhile steping upon every basic human right. That is why you can't compare past crimes with todays ones.

Oh so americas a nation of murderers is it?
Thats pretty damm generalistic view isnt it, mabye you'd like to tell us what country YOU come from and how come YOUR able to sit on YOUR high moral horse and tell us what is RIGHT and what is WRONG.
The US is doing what they think is right for the US, its called self preservation, every nation does it even yours.

Besides, into the collonial years was everyone doing it. If England was not doing it, then someone else could take the place. We just need time to learn how to live with theirselfs, respecting others and did not starting wars for profit....

Oh so now because everyone was doing it that means its fine right, and BTW your still showing ignorance.

And that could be called civilized.

Civilised?
Since when did the world become even remotely civilised.

What US of A is doing is the exact oposite and the arrogance of all the lies surrounding their goals makes someone rethink if Hitler was as evil, as they are now.

Oh really? Not acording to most GI's and most citizens. Last time I checked the US was doing what it needed to do, right or wrong they made a decision to act for good or for worse that is far more than I can say even about my country sometimes.

Because with Hitler - it was apparent. No hiding. He said what he think openly and admit the goals and won't call killing people "liberating"...
Maybe it is just me, but I can't stand these lies.

Uh right ok, mabye you'd like to remind someone who passed history class with the major subject of that course was germany 1920's - 1930's. You know that hitler lied to everyone? You know he said 2 things but done a third thing?
No apparantly you dont.

I quess I prefer murderer who stands for what he believe, instead of murdering lying thief.

I guess you dont know what the difference between a murderer and a fighter is? Or a murderer and a warrior is right?
Or mabye you'd like to raise yourself higher on your horse and say something about the US's health system...
No I think we've heard enough of your critism of the US....and apparant ignorance of history esspecially in europe.

So i gather from what i have read and seen that, you, trodas are anti War, anti US, anti anything to do with Iraq or the coalition behind it?

The cartoons are good, but they only depict one persons view of things.IE, the artist.
Maybe you could depict things in your own way with such like cartoons, and not rely on someone elses work to put your point of view across?

This one's great:






and this one:



wrong side of the wall- that's classic!

[edit on 27-1-2006 by Nakash]

AHah! OMG, your seriosly going to use the top one arnt you?

You know the EU didnt exist in 1915....right?