NYC

> wingdings, webdings, or whatever, are just symbols connected to letters. There is no a trillion to one chance that there is a something that can be considered a message in them.No, it doesn't.

Unless a person purposely chooses to make a connection.

----

> Abstract symbols have no literal meaning, literally.

Hieroglyphs mean nothing?
An Egyptlogist would differ.
If these abstract symbols have no meaning, then why did Microsoft spend millions distributing them for people to not use? Logically, that's a waste of money.

Also, just try explaining to the DMV there are no "literal meanings" applied to icons, shapes and symbols, next time you do your written test. When you're asked to identify what an red octagon means... it can make the difference between passing the test, or failing. Abstract symbols do mean something.

We will have to agree to disagree.
What about these little abstract symbols? £ $ ¥ ¢ €
What does this little abstract symbol mean? © or ®
Try explaining to a musician, "abstract symbols have no literal meaning".
Try explaining to a mathematician "abstract symbols have no literal meaning".
Try explaining to an Electronics technician "abstract symbols have no literal meaning".
Just try explaining that to yourself, the next time you're in a shopping center, and can't find the restroom.

Ask the ADL or JDL what the Hakenkreuz (also known as, "sun cross", "hooked cross", "good luck symbol" and "swastika") means to them? "Couldn't possibly mean anything literal". Afterall, it's just another "abstract symbol", isn't it?

Written language itself is and originated from abstract symbols. If you do not believe this, go on Google's translation tools, you'll find many "abstract symbols" in the world.
translate.google.com...


Google apparently confirms what I've been saying. Some good places to start :

The Power Of Symbols in Satanism: Chaos MagicSatanisms usage of powerful symbols is a mixture of subjectivism, chaos magic and psychology. By Vexen Crabtree.
www.dpjs.co.uk/powerofsymbols.html

The Power of SymbolsThe Power of Symbols. Modern physics rests upon the foundation of mathematics, a symbolic language. But what is the foundation upon which this magical ...
www.epcomm.com/fmbr/editoral/symbols.htm

POWER SYMBOLS OF THE INDIAN
Power Symbols of the Indian. Often called the greatest light cavalry in history by many military men, the Indians used their horses to carry them into ...
www.runningdeerslonghouse.com/webdoc125.htm

Discover AfricaSpiritual Power of Symbols.
SUMMARY:, Students will learn how symbols are used in some societies to influence spirts and to protect rooms. ...
www.calacademy.org/exhibits/ africa/discover/classroom/9.htm

Jan Kubik: The Power of Symbols Against the Symbols of Power
The Power of Symbols Against the Symbols of Power The Rise of Solidarity and the Fall of State Socialism in Poland. Jan Kubik. 1994 Comparative Politics ...
www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-01083-5.html

Dummies::Harnessing the Power of Symbols
Harnessing the Power of Symbols Adapted From: Tarot For Dummies. You may not even realize it, but your life is shaped by symbols that are passed to you or ...
www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/ id-2959,subcat-RELIGION.html

www.google.com...

[edit on 23-1-2006 by skeptical_123]

> Abstract symbols have no literal meaning, literally.


.... . .-.. .-.. --- .-.. .-.-.-

The abstract symbols found above are not meaningless, it's called Morse code.

Thousands of examples can be given where humans interpret abstract symbols, literally, daily.

A HAUNTING REMINDER WHY ABSTRACT SYMBOLS SHOULD BE TAKEN LITERALLY
"According to bin al-Shieb, communications were "constant and continuous until a few hours before the night of the execution." One rather bizarre exchange that bin al-Shieb discusses is how Atta transmitted his selection of September 11 as the date for the attacks, roughly two weeks before the hijackings. Atta called him with a "puzzle" to solve. "Two sticks and between them a dash, a cake from which a stick is dangling." Bin al-Shieb explains, "The puzzle meant the date, in other words the time of the operation; the two sticks represent the number 11 then the dash and then the cake from which a stick dangles represents the number 9; thus the picture becomes complete: 11-9."
Source: www.townhall.com...
*To most folks living outside the USA, September 11, would be dated, 11.9 or 11.September

But at any rate, thanks for the stimulating conversation. It's helped toward creating an interesting, informative and thought-provoking web page.
www.edwardtbabinski.us...

Originally posted by skeptical_123
Hieroglyphs mean nothing?
An Egyptlogist would differ.

I doubt it. They'd agree that the heiroglyps were used by the egyptian to represent certian things, but in and of themselves they are meaningless. Witness the fact that we couldn't read them until we had the Rosettea Stone. The symbols themselves only have the meaning that a person grants them.

If these abstract symbols have no meaning, then why did Microsoft spend millions distributing them for people to not use? Logically, that's a waste of money.

In that particular system, each symbol 'means' the letter it is assigned to. Press the letter 'N' on the keyboard in that font and you get the skull and bones. It doesn't have any esoteric meaning though, it doesn't even 'mean' death technically, it simply 'means' 'N'. Really though, it means nothing, its a random symbol assigned to a key on a keyboard.

Also, just try explaining to the DMV there are no "literal meanings" applied to icons, shapes and symbols, next time you do your written test.
A red octagon has no literal meaning. You can't show it to a martian and he will stop walking. You can't show it to a 10th century inhabitant of verona and he will stop in the street. It has no literal meaning. Its a symbol that we, current and mostly, recognize as a symbol for 'STOP'.

When you're asked to identify what an red octagon means... it can make the difference between passing the test, or failing. Abstract symbols do mean something.



Ask the ADL or JDL what the Hakenkreuz (also known as, "sun cross", "hooked cross", "good luck symbol" and "swastika") means to them? "Couldn't possibly mean anything literal". Afterall, it's just another "abstract symbol", isn't it?
Precisely. Flash a swastika in a jewish community, and it 'means' something entirely different than if you flash it at an avram outside of dehli. The swastika has no literal meaning.

Written language itself is and originated from abstract symbols.

Yes, I am aware of this. Notice that the script at harrapa is a set of abstract symbols that are to this day completely unreadable. They have no literal meaning.

While we could argue that all letters and words are more or less, then, abstract symbols, that might lead us to be extreme and say that 'regular words' have no literal meaning either, but that's probably taking it to absurdity. We could even say that its absurd to state that heiroglyphs and the harrappan script, once decoded, have no literal meaning too.

However, with the wingdings and webdings, its quite different. They are just symbols associated with keystrokes. If we decipher them, certianly as a set, then the set "Skull.StarofDavid.Thumbsup" literally, decod-edly, means NYC, and nothing else.

The entire idea behind that wingdingwebding conspiracy is that there is no code in the whole set, but rather that the person who made wingdings wanted to say 'its good to kill jews', and that he therefore made NYC, a 'jewish city' (but, again, the iconic jewish city??) 'spell' out that set.

And, again, as far as meaning, there is no literal meaning to those symbols. A skull and bones can mean death, or it can mean poison, hazzard, or, in esoteric symstems, mortality and humanity. A star of david could mean 'the jews', or it could mean judaism, or YWH, or the clan of david, and the thumbs up, sure, in america it means 'good' or 'that is good', but in other parts of the world it means something entirely different.

I'd agree that the majority of people seeing these symbols would probably recognize it as "dead jews is good", but, again, why the association with the keys N Y and C? It makes little sense. Any set with those symbols can display them in that order, so it all turns on how significant the NYC keystroke is. Its simply not significant. There are jews in almost every city in the west, not just NYC, which is rarely abbreviated as NYC and more often just NY or NY NY. The fact that its 'dead muslims good' in germany shows that its nonsense, NYC has nothing to do with native german antagonism with immigrant turks.





[edit on 23-1-2006 by Nygdan]

[edit on 23-1-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
However, with the wingdings and webdings, its quite different. They are just symbols associated with keystrokes. If we decipher them, certianly as a set, then the set "Skull.StarofDavid.Thumbsup" literally, decod-edly, means NYC, and nothing else.

You are familiar with Occam's razor?

The simplest explanation.

You are repeating simply what the media told you, you're suppose to say.

But I will let Microsoft and the ADL and the JDL explain my position:
"We can certainly understand how people would respond with some shock to this apparent issue. We did too..."
-Microsoft

Simple question: Why would these otherwise educated experts feel "shock", since symbols and icons (as you imply) meant nothing to begin with? Thousands of years of written communication, and we're only just discovering a lie? Please go on Google and search "schematic" as in abstract symbols, interpreted literally by an electronic technician. Google up Morse code, dots and lines, abstract symbols interpreted literally by communication professionals, sheet music for the musician are abstract symbols read literally, (Argument fallacies, explaining away what we know is true). George Bush too can lie about WMD's and use fallacies to pull the wool over the eyes and ears of the American people. If Bush can do it, so can microsoft.
www.google.com...
I am relieved Microsoft understands why some folks still believe it may have been on purpose, when they themselves admit shock and questioning, though I am suspicious of their lack of suspicion. Their financial interests are very important to them.

The newspapers jumped on the issue. They too knew there was an issue, more than mere coincidence. Microsoft had no choice but to brush this issue under the rug, with help of the ADL using argument fallacies which usually work wonders at silencing reporters.

"In 1992, after the JDL expressed concern over the wingding symbols for "NYC,"

What?! Maybe the JDL was just being overly suspicious too? Why didn't the JDL know what you're telling us, how symbols are not literally interpreted, ever.

You imply "abstract symbols have no literal meaning, literally." with all CERTAINTY.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but CERTAINTY is ABSURD. — Voltaire

Perhaps with all this suspicion from the ADL, Microsoft and the JDL, we can deduce the average person (like me) who still suspects it was done on purpose --they're not alone. I'm in good company. Microsoft did a big investigation over it, although they never produced evidence, just opinions.
Everyone has an opinion.
In difference to MS who was interested in protecting its own financial interests, I arrived at different conclusion, because I have dabbled with computers since I was a kid (going on three decades), and I know something about font packs and hidden messages, backdoors and cheat codes. It's not the first time something was embedded in a software pack, and it won't be the last either.
Being able to agree to disagree, now that's what democracy is all about, the freedom to think and ask questions.

The fellow I have been debating for months on this issue, even in his skepticism admitted two important things, to my credit I am trying to get across to folks:

#1 "Yes, someone could design an alphabet to make it appear a random coincidence."

#2 "I understand where your arguments are coming from, that the coincidence is not a "mere coincidence" but a purposeful one."

Beyond that, people are free to make up their own minds. Microsoft did not produce any evidence. I'm telling people a very unpopular truth, if you suspect it was done on purpose, don't be afraid to follow your own good judgment. There's no crime committed, to disagree with Microsoft's opinion.
You are familiar with research performed by Psychologists on Groupthink?
www.google.com...
Be afraid when everyone holds the same opinion.

[edit on 23-1-2006 by skeptical_123]

I just had a fresh idea that could really help Microsoft out of its dillema.

Since we can all be politically correct and deny the universal connection between skull and crossbones commonly taken to mean "Death". (Take a penny and scratch those skull and crossbones off metal cans with poison, use a marker to cross out the skulls on boxes with poison --we don't want any evidence left that we have always associated skulls/crossbones with fatality.)
We can deny the universal connection between Jews and the star of David. (Got to be politically correct).
Since we can all be politically correct, we also deny the universal connection between thumbs up and okay.

Okay...

WHAT FOOL IDEA PUT IT IN PEOPLE'S HEAD, NYC EVEN MEANS NEW YORK CITY? Nothing is connected, it's all just coincidence.

Yes, we can also deny NYC means "New York City"! What a discovery.
NYC itself is "only three letters" afterall, meaningless letters, merely coincidence! and by themselves they mean nothing.

It's irrelevant, when we hear the initials IBM, that doesn't necessarily mean International Business Machines, it can mean anything.
Afterall, AiG can stand for Answers in Genesis, or the AIG investment group.

OJ Simpson, "If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit".

NYC can mean lots of stuff, so it no longer means NYC. We can call New York the "Big Apple" but don't use NYC anymore, no no, forget you ever knew it was associated with New York City. We don't want to make poor Microsoft nervous.

NYC means "Nuke Your Cognition"
NYC means "Nuts, You Clueless ..."
NYC means lots of stuff.

I suppose NYC can mean everything, except New York City too.

Thats the name of the game,
calling every thing,
by its wrong name.

Argument fallacies,
to the bitter end,
Microsoft's got high paid spin doctors,
and zis is a case its gonna win!

All this "scientific" "data" over such a simple implementation on the true God... or Allah... or Jesus... whatever you may call him.

I said I would not post here again.

I lied. I am a "sinner." Just like you.

You cannot call such things coincedences.

Especially on the USA to German font "differences."

Instead of being in shock, you two have tried your damndest to work around the blatant truth of this all. Our world and it's stars. Our world and it's "start."
You've tried hard but have fallen short.

You have fallen short of not angering me.
You have fallen short of angering yourself...
i.e.. invigorating your mind.
wake up and do not belive in text but rather belive in what you see and when you do you rid yourself of books written by man and enter thoughts concieved by yourself.

"Further, I do not see how a piece of paper can be equated with a skyscraper.
Even further, September 11 was an incident that took place long after Wingdings was created. Nobody was psychic to foresee planes crashing into towers, including Bigelow and Holmes, the font designer(s). Highly doubtful she's privy to any terrorist plots. For that, I discount any notion a plane or paper means anything." -skeptical

Even furthermore, I wonder how an outlined black rectangle with 6 black lines can indicate a piece of paper. Yet you describe it as such.
To me I see a building right about now.
A building of tensions.
A building of Iraq.
A building that is built between me and you implicating that I am against you.

To me, right now, and with many others... you are against us "skeptical."
Do not ever post such replies again.

I bet you'd hate me if I wasn't who I wanted you to be? You want me to be just like you? What if the whole world was just a buncha yous? A buncha JEWS? CHOOSE. ???

What is my race?
What is my religion?
What is my favorite color?
What is my favorite food?
What is my favortie video game?

White
Religious (non-christianity, non-muslim, non-jew, pro-njuenda)
Green
Pizza
San Fransisco Rush 2049 DC

What is real?
is rael?

....anymore.... ??

Third of all skeptical.
Yes you are skeptical.

Yet...
yet
yet you say the wingdings creators could not have created wingdings with those peculiar symbols prior to September 11th.

Yet...
yet
yet you believe all that you read. Including "who" created wingdings.

So if we all here believe what we read then both Al Qaeda and USA knew 9/11 was going to happen before 9/11.

One followed through on the attacks, the other did nothing about it.

That is... if we believe what we read.

You are welcome.
Bro man?

[edit on 24-1-2006 by ChibiChan]