Horrible scene from China:

This shocked me when I read it:

Dead Newborn Infant Lies In Gutter Like Trash In China

Source: Marie Claire magazine, June 2001

A morning in the Chinese province of Hunan brings an unimaginable sight of cruelty and horror. Lying in the gutter of a bustling main road is the tiny, twisted body of a dead baby girl. She is naked, surrounded by only dirty pieces of hospital gauze. Buses and bicycles speed past the corpse, spraying it with mud.

Nameless and unwanted, the newborn’s been dumped by the roadside during winter. Few of the locals hurrying by give her a second glance. To them, she is just one of thousands of baby girls abandoned each year as a result of China’s ruthless one-child policy. “I think the baby had just died,” says a woman who was the only person to attempt to rescue the infant. “I touched her skin, and it was warm. Blood was still coming out of her nose.”

mod edit... please don't cut and paste whole articles...

mod edit -- links to pictures here
www.taliacarner.com...

www.taliacarner.com...

Taken from www.taliacarner.com...

Unbelievable. I fear for China becoming a superpower if it does this to it's own citizens.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Byrd]

Unreal, I had no idea it was this bad..
What about the children just walking by..

That was what most shocked me. Imagine just walking by a dead baby while somebody rolls their car's tires over it's corpse. Sickening.

I know how this may sound, but - It takes two to tango. The Chinese government could not do this if its citizens did not allow it. Even a dumb animal will give its own life to protect its offspring. As horrible as this is; is it really any different than using abortion as a form of birth control? Just because the child is placed in a medical waste container instead of in the gutter does not change the fact that the child was murdered. Our children are being legally slaughtered by the millions and yet we turn a blind eye to it. Are we really any better than the people in the photos who don't give the child’s body a second glance?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
As horrible as this is; is it really any different than using abortion as a form of birth control? Just because the child is placed in a medical waste container instead of in the gutter does not change the fact that the child was murdered. Our children are being legally slaughtered by the millions and yet we turn a blind eye to it. Are we really any better than the people in the photos who don't give the child’s body a second glance?

This is not ment to be an attack but, it will seem so, as our opinions are so polar.


When I saw this photo I was shocked. To tell you the truth I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight. For you to compare this to abortion is uterly appaling in my opion. Unless of course you mean late trimester abortions and illegal abortions but, to my knowlage those types of abortions do not occur 'by the millions' here in America.

If that is not what you ment then I am shocked. Yes, I understand your veiw points. I've researced the subject extensivley but, I still come to a pro-choice stance. This is not the place to argue abortion, and if it was I still wouldn't argue it with you, or anyone else for that matter(it is such a touchy subject for the some people and I do not know you).

Either way, I want to state my opinions. To compare the action of dumping a living baby in a gutter to terminating the germination/growth of a fetus at a very early stage, where it is fully dependent on the mother to live, is disturbing. There is a very large difference in the two, believe it or not. You say a fetus is a child but, I say a fetus is a developing parasitic life form(sounds cold, I know). Here's my stance on abortion, if the fetus can survive outside of the womb with or without intensvive care and is conscious then it is deemed a child and should not be aborted. Legal abortion is wrong(yet it still boils down to personal choice and that choice is neither yours nor mine), but to through a baby in a gutter is sickening.

Honestly I don't think I need to say anything else, as nothing I type will change your mind and nothing you type will change mine.

I guess I better find something to do now, as I will not be sleeping after seeing that picture.

Once again, if I offended you, then I'm sorry. This was not ment to be a personal attack. It's just that your statement sickened me to the point of anger, and my emotions poored out onto the keyboard.

Yes this is shameful and cruel. Life is very cheap in many parts of China and thousands of babies are killed each year.

Shocking pictures yes but just more of ‘mans’ inhumanity to ‘man’.

I think when Westerners see this stuff, their reaction is over the top to say the least. Why? Cause it makes you feel superior and fuels your hate of a country considered an enemy and a threat.

Should we condem a whole nations population because of one picture?

Do you know what is going through the mind of those people? Maybe they thought it was a doll?
Do you think those trucks and stuff would have really even noticed. Would you?
I say no because drivers don't even notice me sometimes and I'm bigger than that baby, just.
Do you scan the gutter when you drive, or even walk?
I've seen people walk right by MONEY dropped on the floor. People don't always pay that much attention to what is going on around them here in the U.S. Why do you expect them to be any different?

And did you all miss the part about the stringent laws on birth rate, what would people in the U.S. do if faced with huge fines for having too many kids when U.S. mothers abort and stick their own babies in trash cans now?
Babys are found all the time in the U.S. in trash cans and on doorsteps.
Sry but we're no better than them as much as you'd like to believe.

Why do people jump so quick to put others down when they are just as likely to do the same?

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

My comments on the article:

What has happened in Iraq is NOTHING compared to atrocities like this in China, and many other countries such as Sudan or the congo. I wonder what the case would be if China sat upon one of the largests oil reserves in the world.

I hope someone in the Bush cabinet reads this or is refered to this by a CIA agent.

If Bush (or anyother president that has started a war for that matter) is half the man he claims to be, he would take actions against the real enemy of democracy/freedom. It sickens me (yes even more so than the comparison that i quoted in my last post) that our world leaders do not do anything about such actions. The fact that we are China's major exporter does not help the cause, it only reinforces my belief that the real enemy is people like Bush and other superpower governments alike. We(the USA) as a nation have the power, both politicaly and militarily, to make a difference yet nothing is done.

to our current world policy.

Fear, denial lie behind abandoned babies epidemic

www.cnn.com...

Nearly 5 babies killed weekly, FBI data show

www.cnn.com...

We are no better than them! We need to clean up our own yard before we judge!

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
I think when Westerners see this stuff, their reaction is over the top to say the least. Why? Cause it makes you feel superior and fuels your hate of a country considered an enemy and a threat.

I disagree.
This is sick, I don't care if it happens in China or the US, it's still sick, period.
I'm sure it happens in the West too, but I think it's much more common in China mainly because of the one-child-policy, but of course also because of the poverty.

Originally posted by ANOK
I think when Westerners see this stuff, their reaction is over the top to say the least. Why? Cause it makes you feel superior and fuels your hate of a country considered an enemy and a threat.

I do not feel this way about China, and never have until I read about the way that they go about enforcing these laws. Even though I was aware of these birth quotas for a long time now.

Should we condem a whole nations population because of one picture?

No, the thought's that go through the mothers and fathers minds of thes babies are the same that go through the minds of parents of a murdered child anywhere. Once again it's the action of the authorities that I find disturbing.

Do you know what is going through the mind of those people? Maybe they thought it was a doll?
Do you think those trucks and stuff would have really even noticed. Would you?

I agree with you on this. I would have assumed it was a doll or a piece of garbage if I were driving by, if I even noticed it at all. But, if I happened to walk by(as an american) I would have landed myself in a red prison faster then the flip of a coin.

I say no because drivers don't even notice me sometimes and I'm bigger than that baby, just.
Do you scan the gutter when you drive, or even walk?
I've seen people walk right by MONEY dropped on the floor. People don't always pay that much attention to what is going on around them here in the U.S. Why do you expect them to be any different?

I agree, people in the US pay very little to thier suroundings. Just look at what we have done to our streams, forests, and wildlife. My fear is that people are like this everywhere.

And did you all miss the part about the stringent laws on birth rate, what would people in the U.S. do if faced with huge fines for having too many kids when U.S. mothers abort and stick their own babies in trash cans now?
Babys are found all the time in the U.S. in trash cans and on doorsteps.
Sry but we're no better than them as much as you'd like to believe.

I agree, but an estimation of 17 million baby girls a year, not counting legal abortions?! If I'm reading this data properly, then it is saying there was 857,000 legal abortions in the year 2000 as reported by the CDC. I'm aware that this does not contain illegal abortions and the number would be signifcantly higher if it did. My only qaulm with this, is I fear that when numbers are compared(population), the ratio might not be to far off from each other.

Why do people jump so quick to put others down when they are just as likely to do the same?

Neither of us know each other at all, but I'm not as likely to do the same. If my girlfriend told me she wanted an abortion I would do the best I could to convince her otherwise, but in the end it's still her choice(in my eyes).

Also If the laws were the same as they are in China, I would do my best to relocate myself and my family. As so many Chinese nationals have done and will do if the opertunity arises. I personaly know of atleast one family that has moved from China because of this, and I also know of one family(very close friends) that have moved from Taiwan because of similar reasons.

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Edit: Very interesting links, by the way. I still remember the second one like it was yesterday, even though I was only 12 years old at the time. It has left a permanent imprint on me. I just cannont relate with the reasons as to why this woman and many others, in a country like America, do this; when they could give it up for adoption.

I still have to agree with swearbear on this matter.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by ReginalBigsby]



[edit on 22-1-2006 by ReginalBigsby]

Originally posted by SwearBear
I disagree.
This is sick, I don't care if it happens in China or the US, it's still sick, period.
I'm sure it happens in the West too, but I think it's much more common in China mainly because of the one-child-policy, but of course also because of the poverty.

I'm not saying it isn't sick, it is. I just wish people would start looking at themsleves more often. It's easy to judge when it's a million miles away.

Where are the posts on American babies being disposed of?

Give me some statistics on China, not just some random picture.

As you said "I'm sure it happens in the west"...Do you know if it does? Do you care? Sounds like you're more concerned with it happening in China than your own country. And you all make a huge assumption as to the details of the pictures shown.

This article just sounds like an attempt to alienate China in your mind by playing with your emotions.

I can see it now...China Gasette, "U.S. citizens kill 5 of their offspring on a weekly basis." The Chinese reply the same way you do, oh those sick Americans should be wiped off the planet.

Are you seeing my point?

Babies are killed, maimed, abandend all over the World, doesn't make it right, but also singleing out one country is also not right.

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ReginalBigsby
Why do people jump so quick to put others down when they are just as likely to do the same?
Neither of us know each other at all, but I'm not as likely to do the same. If my girlfriend told me she wanted an abortion I would do the best I could to convince her otherwise, but in the end it's still her choice(in my eyes).

Thanx ReginalBigsby...

I didn't actualy really mean you guys with this, just the population in general. Because there are many people who would do the same and have. Read the news.

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
Thanx ReginalBigsby...

I didn't actualy really mean you guys with this, just the population in general. Because there are many people who would do the same and have. Read the news.

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Yeah, I know. I was just using my personal beliefs as an answer to your post. I've come to realize in the past few years that, my view points(and i'm going to assume many others on this forum) are very different then the average humans views points. Sometimes I wish I could just snap my fingers and have everyone see things from a better point of view and be more conscious of everything around them. I'm an idealist, hehe.

I have a few problems with this story. I have no doubt that millions of female Chinese babies have been aborted or killed over the years. There are now an extra 111 million men in China, so something has definitely happened. However most of this has been in dirt poor rural regions, where people think they need a male child to run their farm or small holding. Not in cities where it is as easy for a women as a man to find work.

I have visisted China twice last year, only to the relatively wealthy Shanghai and surrounding provences though, but something like this just wouldn't happen. Even a minor bike accident can end up with hundreds of people flocking round shouting stuff and trying to get a look - no way would people walk past a dead child in the street. This story does not say where this happened, which makes me a bit suspicious.

Also, who was this person who just stood there taking photos for hours? How were they sure the baby was dead? Were they qualified to make that judgement. It says:

“I think the baby had just died,” says a woman who was the only person to attempt to rescue the infant. “I touched her skin, and it was warm. Blood was still coming out of her nose.”

So that would imply that the photographer had already been there taking photos while the baby was actually still alive in the gutter...and was maybe still alive when this woman "attempted to rescue" the child.

This whole story is a dodgy, and doesn't cite any sources. I would be interested to see if anything could be verified.

[edit on 22/1/06 by FatherLukeDuke]

Yes it is terrible...but its 'old hat'...been happening for years...

the only thing I do is not spend my hard earned cash on anything made in China....

yanno consumer power and all that small stuff...one person -> group of committed people...oh gee I feel Margaret Mead quote coming on

My first impression was that this was fake. So I went and did a little investigation on the web to see what I could find.

The pictures were taken by a woman, (who's name I couldn't find, but Anton Antonowicz mentions having written the article), for The Mirror newspaper in the UK back in 2001.

This is a related article in the Mirror, but they mention these pictures and the earlier article. Not sure if I can find the original.

www.mirror.co.uk...=15835211&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=inside-china--chinese-takeaways--name_page.html

I'm not sure if I'm any more reassured really.

However, girls being abandoned, aborted and unwanted, seems to be a real issue in China.

Here's a very interesting article on the subject.

www.thestandard.com.hk...

I'm not sure I'm reassured either. The last editor of the Mirror had to resign because of....publishing fake photos.

The rest of the story seems reasonable, but the people just walking past an infant in a gutter for hours, while someone stood next to it taking photos, I think is faked.

a common reality over in china.the rise of hate towards woman kind is rising again.beware all female of earth evil is walking again.....

I wanted a closer picture, since something about the position of the limbs and the proportion of the torso looked more like a picture of a doll than of a real infant.

HOWEVER... that said, this has been going on worldwide for a long time. The women on the forum are probably more aware of it than the men.

Infanticide is practiced because: the baby is unwanted -- it may be for social or for economic or for stress reasons. Girl babies are almost always the ones killed.

Because many of our legal systems are patriarchial (the inheritance goes to male children; girls are given away with a "bride price" to other families (the "dowry" in Western civilizations), a family will lose its land if they have a girl. If they can only raise one or two children, the preference will be for boys.

In China, this is already leading to tales of more frequent prostitution (the first generation of "one child only" children is growing up (and there were HORRIFIC stories of the murder of little girls when this policy came about). There are fewer women than there are men, and gangsters and scammers are running "wedding" scams where the guy pays a bride price, gets a bride... and she runs away after the wedding night and shows up somewhere else to marry someone else, on the arm of her "papa."