It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NEWS: Iran Threatens To Create An Oil Crisis

page: 2
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 08:39 AM
link   
The thing is Iran has issued a THREAT to the Western World. They are THREATENING to raise oil prices if the West dont LET THEM HAVE AN A-BOMB !!

Can you see something wrong here ?? Its not like in Iraq where a tyrant killed his own but a nation that is trying to build nuclear weapons threatening the world to let it do so or else.....?

I would say that the UN should impose sanctions as soon as possible on Iran on any and every commodity that they trade with any nation. Even Pakistan and Iraq should shut them out. This can happen, if Russia and Europe are with the US whole-heartedly, which I doubt Russia will ever be.
The point is that Iran wants a nuclear weapons that would in the future give them the power to take the world hostage again with greater ease. The Islamic world has to realize that threats are useless and they only worsen their position. We cannot let the Iranians get away with this and show that the Western world can be coerced by such financial threats. It must stop here and Iran must be made an example of. The mess that the Pakistanis did with nuclear weapons(i.e AQ Khan) is proof enough that the West should be very cautious of another Islamic nation getting their hands on them. I doubt the Iranians will be as accommodative of Western needs as the Pakistanis are. Even with the patience shown by the Europeans the Iranians are still do not relent and instead seek to turn the tables on the West by threatening them. This is not the sign of a responsible and respectable government and the world knows this.

The Russians dont need the oil as they have their own and the Chinese have their interests diversified enough to relinquish Iran to the UN. The Chinese already have a large amount of their oil imported through Ukraine and the Russians plan to build another pipeline to meet the growing chinese need. The Indians already are in the process of getting nuclear fuel from the West and that would solve most of their energy needs. Also there is Malaysia and Brunei that have massive oil resources and these nations are more equitable with democratic nations. The sanctions will also benefit nations by forcing them to economize and invest in alternative sources, something that has become a need in todays world ironically not because of the environment but because of the power that oil producing nations hold.

What ever the leaders of the West decide, I think we can all be sure that the West still has a card up their sleave.

(edit: Spelling )

[edit on 21-1-2006 by IAF101]




posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 09:01 AM
link   
Were'd you get these ideas about China? 2/3rds of Iran's exported oil goes to Asia. If the UN can get China to go with trade sanctions against its principle supplier of crude, hell has truelly froze over.

China to become Iran's primary trade partner
China and Russia would fight Iran oil sanctions

Iran Replaces its Money in Haste from Europe to Asia



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 09:06 AM
link   
An Oil crisis is exactly what we need. Once they play that card America and hopefully the rest of the civilized nations will finally invest the time and resources needed to develope the tech to move us all away from oil. Once this happens the Oil rich nations will have to learn how to farm. Once they become farmers they will become civilized. Our need for oil is what has funded a backwards culture that refuses to move humanity along in evolution.

X



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 09:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Were'd you get these ideas about China? 2/3rds of Iran's exported oil goes to Asia. If the UN can get China to go with trade sanctions against its principle supplier of crude, hell has truelly froze over.

I never said that the world would agree but pointed out how it would be possible for them to agree. The chinese will be able to compensate their energy needs from other sources, moreover the Sinopec deal has not yet come through so china can come out without as much economic loss. Granted that the chinese get 13% of their oil from Iran, it would be difficult but it would be possible like the oil for food program the UN had with IRAQ. The Russians on the other hand have minimal investments in Iran but are a supplier of gasoline that could still find a market in china, if the Japanese dont scuttle the Russia-china pipeline. Iran can be isolated, the solution there, all the require is implementation. Also Iran needs gasoline that they dont produce, which gives the UN another leverage. The world could end up getting oil cheaper from Iran if everybody co-operates but as you have said it would be very unlikely.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 09:55 AM
link   
Asia is rather fed up with a US petrodollar hegemony, propping up our debtor economy with Greenspan's helicopter funny money, and our meddling in Taiwan. I would like to see a joint resolution work in the UN, but I wouldn't bet a single petrodollar on it. Your ideas fall more in lines of PNAC's and that would be a hard sell for many.

Here's what a few are saying is the real nuke in the Ayatollah's turban.
The Proposed Iranian Oil Bourse

Author suggests a coup d’état or negotiating acceptable terms with Iran as the best solutions for US interests.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 11:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by IAF101
I would say that the UN should impose sanctions as soon as possible on Iran on any and every commodity that they trade with any nation. Even Pakistan and Iraq should shut them out. This can happen, if Russia and Europe are with the US whole-heartedly, which I doubt Russia will ever be.

Oh no, not one of these UN guys. Since when is the UN this supreme authority?
Anyways, can't Russia and China veto?



The point is that Iran wants a nuclear weapons that would in the future give them the power to take the world hostage again with greater ease.

What do you mean "hold the world hostage"?
If Iran threatens to nuke Europe, Israel or the US, they will get nuked, it's self assured destruction, and they will accomplish nothing.



The Russians dont need the oil as they have their own and the Chinese have their interests diversified enough to relinquish Iran to the UN.

The Russians will need Iranian oil in the future. Russia is due to run out of oil if it continues exporting and consuming at it's current rate by 2013, but as I said in my previous post, they might stop exporting oil and natural gas by 2010.
And by running out of oil I mean it will take more than one barrel of oil to extract another barrel from the oil fields/wells.



The Chinese already have a large amount of their oil imported through Ukraine and the Russians plan to build another pipeline to meet the growing chinese need.

I refer to my previous answer. It won't last long and it won't satisfy the growing Chinese need for oil.



Also there is Malaysia and Brunei that have massive oil resources and these nations are more equitable with democratic nations.

Proved oil reserves in Malaysia are about 3.2b bbl.
They produce about 699k barrels a day, however as a result of the long-term trend toward declining oil reserves, Petronas, the state oil and gas company, has embarked on an international exploration and production strategy. Currently, Petronas is invested in oil exploration and production projects in Syria, Iran, Pakistan, China, Vietnam, Sudan, Angola and several other countries.
Sabah Shell Petroleum Company, a unit of Royal Dutch/Shell Group also own a oil field there.
They already export to China.

Brunei proved crude oil reserves stand at about 1.35b bbl.
Bruneis oil industry is completely dominated by Brunei Shell Petroluem, a joint venture by the western company Royal Dutch Shell and the Brunei government. They can produce about 196k barrels of oil per day and also already export to China.

[edit on 21/1/2006 by SwearBear]

[edit on 21/1/2006 by SwearBear]



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 12:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by SwearBear
Oh no, not one of these UN guys. Since when is the UN this supreme authority?
Anyways, can't Russia and China veto?

Thats exactly what I said, the Russians wont go into the deal with due regard for Western interests and also see how I conveniently use the phrase " the UN should impose sanctions "




What do you mean "hold the world hostage"?
If Iran threatens to nuke Europe, Israel or the US, they will get nuked, it's self assured destruction, and they will accomplish nothing.

Actually you have gotten it wrong! They already have made indirect threats to destroy Isreal and anti-US connotations make up a significant part of their identity, so the hate is there and the only thing they need is the weapon.
Also you forget that unlike rational states Islamic states are different, they would rather die fighting the "great SATAN " than comply with democratic nations. They could easily hold the world hostage by threatening to pass on a nuke to Osama and his thugs or even the Palestinians or the Chechnyans or any number of their muslim brothers "out there". Heck they could even start selling them on the black market. A nuclear weapon isnt just a "bigger boom" it is a great responsibility that only the mature should posses. Iran doest seem mature.


The Russians will need Iranian oil in the future. Russia is due to run out of oil if it continues exporting and consuming at it's current rate by 2013,

The USSR unfortunately didnt exploit its oil reserves like they exploited their people. Their are still vast regions in Russia that have been unexplored and when the need comes they will be sure to find more, Russia covers nearly 1/3 or Asia and it is more than likely than they will be more reserves that are waiting to be discovered.


I refer to my previous answer. It won't last long and it won't satisfy the growing Chinese need for oil.

At the rate they are going they would never be able to fullfil their needs, they will adapt and as they doing right now they will invest in altrenate sources. Also they have enought oil for power generation and their power outages are because of insuffecient power generation rather than a lack of oil as you have claimed.



Proved oil reserves in Malaysia are about 3.2bbl.
They already export to China.

Brunei proved crude oil reserves stand at about 1.35bbl.
They can produce about 196k barrels of oil per day and also already export to China.
[edit on 21/1/2006 by SwearBear]

As I have already said the Russian -chinese pipeline is long awaited and also they get oil form the Ukraine. The malaysian and Brunei oil fields have still not been fully explored and also they have the Sudanese oil fields and the rest of the gulf to supply them oil. I doubt their will be a shortage, there will be oil one would just have to know where to get it from.
Plus the Iranians wont hold out long maybe 10 years after which they would have to relent and sell oil in order to sustain their nation. They have no other major industry to speak of, so oil is their cash cow !



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 02:22 PM
link   
oh what power one middle eastern country has over practically the world.

The Dow lost 213 points, the biggest drop in one day in nearly 3 years.

Oil approaching records not seen since our entire gulf of mexico infrastructure was shut down due to an act of God.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 02:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
oh what power one middle eastern country has over practically the world.

The Dow lost 213 points, the biggest drop in one day in nearly 3 years.

Oil approaching records not seen since our entire gulf of mexico infrastructure was shut down due to an act of God.

Well the dow fell not due to any act of god but due to the act of flagging blue chip results and general mayhem in nigeria, OBL tapes and the ayotollah madness. So it was all the above instead of Iran crisis that crashed this years gains on the dow.

As for the oil prices, the Nigeria situation is the primary cause of concern to US commodity traders. The Iranian conflict just adds to the overall madness.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 03:14 PM
link   
Man, Iran is so going down. lol. First the nuclear stuff, then the armageddon stuff, and now they are going to hold the world hostage for oil?

But I just don't get it... How can Korea and Iran pull this crap on a daily basis, but Iraq is the one attacked?

And was I the only one that heard the Iranian leader say something about having a magical aura that makes politicians unable to look away from him while he's talking? WHATS UP WITH THAT? This guy is nuts.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 03:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by IAF101
Actually you have gotten it wrong! They already have made indirect threats to destroy Isreal and anti-US connotations make up a significant part of their identity, so the hate is there and the only thing they need is the weapon.
Also you forget that unlike rational states Islamic states are different, they would rather die fighting the "great SATAN " than comply with democratic nations.

They might be a bit nutty but they're not stupid, just like North Korea.
NK has most likely got nukes, but they're not going to use them as an offensive, because that would be stupid and they would be annhilated, they would gain absolutely nothing.



Their are still vast regions in Russia that have been unexplored and when the need comes they will be sure to find more, Russia covers nearly 1/3 or Asia and it is more than likely than they will be more reserves that are waiting to be discovered.

Well that's just guessing for your part, very optimistic. There might some reserves, but none of significant size, that's my guess.

Anyway, now would be the right time to go out and find these magical reserves you're talking about!



At the rate they are going they would never be able to fullfil their needs, they will adapt and as they doing right now they will invest in altrenate sources. Also they have enought oil for power generation and their power outages are because of insuffecient power generation rather than a lack of oil as you have claimed.

Exactly. The Chinese will go anywhere to get their oil, they're already in Sudan supplying the tyrannical Sudanese government, which has slaughtered lots of innocent people in Darfur, with guns, airplanes, APCs, tanks and what not in exchange for oil and troops to protect the oil fields from rebels.

The Chinese have tried to hold back their economic growth, because they're running out of arable land, but it seems that it isn't working, and if they don't keep it running it could crash completely, besides if the economy were to crash, the CCP would most likely loose their control over the country. They don't want that to happen.

It's true that their energy infrastructure is crap and they need to modernize it, bit by bit. The same thing with many developed countries aswell, even Britain, Italy and Russia had blackouts because the input on the grid wasn't big enough to satisfy the demand.

Anyway, energy isn't the only thing China needs oil for, they need it for manufacturing computers, cellphones, other electronics, plastic products, more and more Chinese are getting cars etc.

China isn't just going to accept it and "adapt."
A Chinese general already threatened to nuke the US if they interfered with whatever China would have in store for Taiwan, much more direct threat than Iran imo. And in this case Iran is more important than Taiwan, you don't think that they will interfere? They've already put $200 billion in Iran, they're not going to let it go down the toilet.
They don't have the largest active army in the world for nothing.
As I said, it's only a matter of time till China starts protecting it's energy security directly with it's military strength, like the US has done in Iraq, Afghanistan and West Africa, now possibly in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
The Chinese have been doing it indirectly so far, with supplying local governments/militias/whatever with weapons and what not.



As I have already said the Russian -chinese pipeline is long awaited and also they get oil form the Ukraine. The malaysian and Brunei oil fields have still not been fully explored and also they have the Sudanese oil fields and the rest of the gulf to supply them oil. I doubt their will be a shortage, there will be oil one would just have to know where to get it from.

Hah, the Ukraine ... they've only got ~395m bbl of proven reserves, produce about 2.1m bbl/d, meaning they will run out of oil soon.

And again I don't think there are any significantly big oil fields in South East Asia anymore, all the big ones have already been found.

China currently imports about 35-40% of it's oil, and that amount is estimated to double by 2010. The Chinese are going all over the world in search for oil, gas and coal, they've made deals with Sudan, Nigeria, Angola, Venezuela, Brazil, Canada, Russia, now Iran etc.



Plus the Iranians wont hold out long maybe 10 years after which they would have to relent and sell oil in order to sustain their nation. They have no other major industry to speak of, so oil is their cash cow !

They're not going to have to hold out, I think it's unlikely that they receive any sanctions from the UN, maybe from the EU, but that's their loss.
Israel and the US might bomb Iranian nuclear facilities, slowing down their developement, if they haven't already acquired a or a few nuclear bombs, but they're not going to invade or start a nuclear war with Iran ... I hope.


[edit on 21/1/2006 by SwearBear]



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 03:36 PM
link   
If Iran want to add to the oil crisis, they could pour some gasolin on the bonfire in the Azerbaijan-Armenian conflict. They might actually already be playing that game...


War In Nagorno Karabakh Can Start At Any Moment


Gigantic Oil Pipeline From Caspian Sea Opened Today



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 07:59 PM
link   

from Yarcofin
But I just don't get it... How can Korea and Iran pull this crap on a daily basis, but Iraq is the one attacked?

And was I the only one that heard the Iranian leader say something about having a magical aura that makes politicians unable to look away from him while he's talking? WHATS UP WITH THAT? This guy is nuts.

Look up the link that Regenmacher poster regarding the Iranian Bourse. It gives some very plausible explanations to why things are happening the way they are in the mideast. For example, to answer your question on why Iraq was attacked - Iraq was very seriously considering doing away with petrodollars in favor of the Euro or some other currency in exchange for their oil. This would have had disastrous effects on the US economy.

As far as AtoZ saying he had an aura, well that was his take on it. He also said that the audience couldn't blink for something like 20 minutes while he spoke, because they were so enraptured with him.

Saner attendees said they were in "I can't believe this idiot is really saying that" mode; thus the long attention span.

The topic's been kicked around some; there might even be a thread on it.



posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 08:08 PM
link   

from bigpappadiaz
What can also create an oil crisis:

1) If Iran's government implodes because of all angry youths protesting, who make up 65% of the population. So if we bomb the hell out of their nuclear program, they'll hate us and won't sell us any oil, but the youth will rally behind the leadership and prevent the country from descending into anarchy. And if we don't, the youth will enact change anyways, and won't sell us any oil. It's a no winner in my opinion.

It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I've read that the Iranian youth are actually more friendly toward the west than you'd think. Many of them have been educated in western Universities and enjoy western culture. So if we can depose the current leadership, or better yet, have them stage a coup, without alienating the youth, it might be smoother
relations between us and them.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 03:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by jsobecky

from bigpappadiaz
What can also create an oil crisis:

1) If Iran's government implodes because of all angry youths protesting, who make up 65% of the population. So if we bomb the hell out of their nuclear program, they'll hate us and won't sell us any oil, but the youth will rally behind the leadership and prevent the country from descending into anarchy. And if we don't, the youth will enact change anyways, and won't sell us any oil. It's a no winner in my opinion.

It might just be wishful thinking on my part, but I've read that the Iranian youth are actually more friendly toward the west than you'd think. Many of them have been educated in western Universities and enjoy western culture. So if we can depose the current leadership, or better yet, have them stage a coup, without alienating the youth, it might be smoother
relations between us and them.

A coup could always fail you know, like in Venezuela Chavez beat two coups the yanks supposedly staged.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 03:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by SwearBear
They might be a bit nutty but they're not stupid, just like North Korea.
NK has most likely got nukes, but they're not going to use them as an offensive, because that would be stupid and they would be annhilated, they would gain absolutely nothing.

Actually the NKs are very stupid when it comes to diplomacy and thus their present tryst with misery ! The whole show is by the chinese and everybody know this. Thats the only reason they dont use the nukes not because they are smart.
The Iranians on the other hand are riddled with some vain idea of pride that rules them. A serious flaw that is expoited by the Russians and the Chinese to make life difficult for their western "allies". But the Iranians still think for themselves and that is the problem, they might be influenced to a degree but they will never be the puppets that the NK are. Also the whole affair of threat-ransom gives them an air of control and victory against the West. And with their nuclear ambitions clearly more than peacefull Europe will have to muster up its "Union" to do what needs to be done.



Well that's just guessing for your part, very optimistic. There might some reserves, but none of significant size, that's my guess.

Guessing aside, the facts are that Russia is the largerst producer of oil among all the former soviet bloc nations and it is followed by Khazakistan. Plus the biggest oil fields in Russia are located in the western and eastern siberian basins and also in the artic sea desposits plus in salakhin.
USSR OIL FIELDS

What the life of these fields are specualtive but from what the map shows (^^) I would say that Russia has gotten most of the oil reserves after the split.



China isn't just going to accept it and "adapt."
A Chinese general already threatened to nuke the US if they interfered with whatever China would have in store for Taiwan, much more direct threat than Iran imo. And in this case Iran is more important than Taiwan, you don't think that they will interfere? They've already put $200 billion in Iran, they're not going to let it go down the toilet.

Well, the chinese resent the US invovement in Taiwan but that hasnt deterred the US has it?? Also Taiwan is more emotional issue than Iran, the CCP would become popular if they took Taiwan by force but if the messed in IRan and got hit back causing their economy to fall apart their would be an uprising in china against the CCP. I think they would rather save themselves than make sure all the chinese get enought fuel to ride their cars.
where did you get that figure of $200 billion ? The chinese have not yet concluded the $100 billion deal with Iran for 25 years of LNG supply yet and also what stake they hold is marginal and do not outright own any fields in Iran, their interests are mostly in LNG in IRAN.


They don't have the largest active army in the world for nothing.
As I said, it's only a matter of time till China starts protecting it's energy security directly with it's military strength, like the US has done in Iraq, Afghanistan and West Africa, now possibly in Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Just because every policeman, postal worker and office clerk is registered as a member of the Red army doesnt mean that they can win wars easily or that gives them an advantage. The chinese cant even take out countries like India forget about projecting their military might in the middle east. They simply do not have the capability for that kind of action. It is mainly a very large guelrilla army that is primarily ment for defensive action. Their offensive strategies mainly involve ICBM's and guided missiles with few long range bombers. They cannot like the US deploy logistics and troops to in any region beyonf their immediate surroundings.



Hah, the Ukraine ... they've only got ~395m bbl of proven reserves, produce about 2.1m bbl/d, meaning they will run out of oil soon.
And again I don't think there are any significantly big oil fields in South East Asia anymore, all the big ones have already been found.

How does that mean that they will run out ? They can find new reserves or extract more from already exsisting reserves.
The Chinese want "safe" supplies of oil and gas generally prefering pipelines to shipping routes and that too in their immediate neighbourhood. The Chinese have not one but several oil pipeline agreements in central asia. The have the Ukraine one, the new Kzahistan one which the Russians will also contribute to and a separate one by Russia that comes 40 miles off the chinese border fully funded by Japan and also the Armenian-Azerbeijan links too. They are in effect sucking Central Asia dry of all oil reserves. Their other petty deals with other nations are merely ment to be auxillary sites and ment to supplement the supply from these pipelines. Also with naval bases in Cambodia, Myanmar and Bangaladesh the Malaysian region would also be considered as safe.
China is Irans largest importer of LNG and it the Iranians that are making the profit than the Chinese. Also the Chinese could be persuaded to leave Iran if they are allowed to expand more in Central Asia without American resistence.
I doubt this will happen though.

Israel and the US might bomb Iranian nuclear facilities, slowing down their developement, if they haven't already acquired a or a few nuclear bombs, but they're not going to invade or start a nuclear war with Iran ... I hope.

IF the chinese make life difficult for the West they can write off their oil ventures in Central Asia and the middle east because that would mean a somewhat direct confrontatin with the entire Western world rather than only the US. They would have to consider the situation very seriously because their main markets are the West and if the EU is adamant, it will easily affect the chinese economy significantly. Also further chinese intervention in the western affairs would sow the seeds of anti-sino sentiments across the West.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 05:02 AM
link   
Oh man, that's serious!

AND #.

Zip



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 06:17 AM
link   
here my thought

the middle east already calculate in euros
cause american wanted to be the ruler of the world
the intereconomy in usa strugglin' why the extern
drivin' at full speed
their goverment only earn money by (negative) military actions
that's why they want to attack iran aswell
believe me , what's comin' out turnin' back
earth will be clean of all the homo sapiens
and new age gonna start in 2012 were human & neo human
gonna work togetther for benefit of mankind
cant u see
we turnin' man against his brother
man excist
mayan king has spoken
peace



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 01:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by IAF101
Actually the NKs are very stupid when it comes to diplomacy and thus their present tryst with misery ! The whole show is by the chinese and everybody know this. Thats the only reason they dont use the nukes not because they are smart.

Well they are stupid in many ways but they are not suicidal. If they were to use nukes on South Korea or Japan they would be destroyed by the West and would gain nothing. That's a fact, and they know it.




The Iranians on the other hand are riddled with some vain idea of pride that rules them. A serious flaw that is expoited by the Russians and the Chinese to make life difficult for their western "allies".

That makes you think that Iran will use nuclear weapons against the West or Israel? They can talk all they want, but it's not happening because as I said, self assured destruction.
I can agree that they are a bit stupid, but they're not that stupid. Don't underestimate them





the CCP would become popular if they took Taiwan by force but if the messed in IRan and got hit back causing their economy to fall apart their would be an uprising in china against the CCP. I think they would rather save themselves than make sure all the chinese get enought fuel to ride their cars.

Sure, but I don't think they will risk much just to become 'popular', what do you mean hit back in Iran? The Chinese have like $850 billion in foreign exchange, mostly in dollars, if they drop the dollar the US economy will definately crash, since it's not far from it anyway. China would also suffer, though, but I think they've got some leverage.

The only reason that the CCP currently has control over China is because the economy is doing well and getting better, as soon as it goes for the worse they will start losing control, and these phuckers are crazy enough to do anything to keep their control ... even if it means interfering in Iran to keep the economy running. You read what that nutty Chinese general said.




where did you get that figure of $200 billion ?

China has signed that $100 billion LNG deal and is about to sign $70 billion oil deal, which according to various sources might total $200 billion of energy agreements between China and Iran, once concluded.




Just because every policeman, postal worker and office clerk is registered as a member of the Red army doesnt mean that they can win wars easily or that gives them an advantage. The chinese cant even take out countries like India forget about projecting their military might in the middle east. They simply do not have the capability for that kind of action.

That would be the reserves you're refering to, they have 2.2 million active servicemen, the US has 1.4 million, then if they intervene in a possible invasion of Iran, they still have 500k Iranian soldiers as allies.
The US is technologically speaking still superior to China, but they're working on modernizing their military, the Chinese navy is already worrying the US. It's only a matter of years before the Chinese military is technologically near the same level as the US is.
What does a good military need? A strong economy to back it up, that's exactly what the Chinese have got right now.




How does that mean that they will run out ? They can find new reserves or extract more from already exsisting reserves.

How will they run out? Well they export 2.1m barrels of oil every day, they have 395m barrels of proven reserves, 395/2.1 = 188, this means they can export at 2.1mbbl/d for 188 days, the Ukraine is dependent on foreign oil and gas, as we've seen this winter.

What do you mean "they can find new reserves" ? Don't you think it's about time they discover these magical reserves that are supposedly out there?




The Chinese want "safe" supplies of oil and gas generally prefering pipelines to shipping routes and that too in their immediate neighbourhood. The Chinese have not one but several oil pipeline agreements in central asia. ... They are in effect sucking Central Asia dry of all oil reserves.

Exactly, they are sucking Central Asia dry, which means it isn't going to last, the only place in the world that will last is the Middle East, Iran is the line in the sand.
... and I think the Chinese want access to both safe oil reserves and ones that will last.

Look, if the US controls all the oil reserves in the Middle East, the Chinese will eventually have to submit to US hegemony after their reserves run dry, same goes for the rest of the world ... and most other reserves around the world are tiny compared to those in the Middle East.




IF the chinese make life difficult for the West they can write off their oil ventures in Central Asia and the middle east because that would mean a somewhat direct confrontatin with the entire Western world rather than only the US.

No it wouldn't, Europe is already turning it's back against the US and starting to do deals with the Chinese, since the US economy is not what I'd call stable. The Chinese offer more profits to Europeans than the US, and in the end that's all that they really care about.
I'm not saying I like it, but it's the truth, and it pisses me off too.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 02:59 PM
link   
While I am no fan of the current government of Iran (though I know quite a few wonderful Iranians) and even a less of a fan of nuclear weapons, the simple reality is this the Bush regime brought this on themselves with their axis of evil comments and their beligerent attitude which certianly up to the same standards of hostility as the Iranian government itself. You got two bullheaded, ignorant bullies going head to head. And all the squacking on the media about an Iranian nuclear threat doesn't help one iota especially since it almost exactly mirrors the same sor of media blitz in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. There is no telling me that it goes unnoticed over there and gaurentteed their reactions are in direct response to it. The thing is the Bush administration has absolutely no respect for other countries (or its own citizens for that matter), allies or not, their actions have shown it repeatidly, other countries have not only noticed this but gage their policies around it.



new topics

top topics



 
7
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join