ATS: NSA Whistleblower, Russell Tice, Steps Forward

external image Russell Tice, former "special access program" specialist with the National Security Agency has stepped forward to indicate he has been a source for the New York Times' expose on the agency's potentially illegal spying on domestic communications. He says that he believes the secret "black world" operations were operated outside the boundaries of the law, and that has been his incentive for "blowing the whistle."

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This "coming out" will certainly add new fuel to the debate over this issue. In one regard, there is serious concern for a person like this stepping outside of protocol with respect to reporting what he believes to be illegal agency policy. But in the other regard, there continues to be grave concerns over the legality of this spying and the presidential order bypassing established accelerated judicial oversight.

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Brave guy, to talk in the first place and then to decide to make his identity public. He's probably going to be ostracised within the government now tho. Indeed, he might even be arrested, since what he did was illegal.

hell, he'll probably do more time than Libby or Rove.

I'm sure many here will lionize this guy, but he's a traitor pure and simple and should be treated as such.

Lethal injection would be too kind.

djohnsto77 -

so what you are saying is that the government can do as it pleases with no regard to the law or constitutional safeguards against abuse of power by government against its own citizens.

your saying that its far worse for someone to speak against illegal wrongdoing than the wrongdoing itself?

if so, do you know where that will lead?

Quote:
"I'm sure many here will lionize this guy, but he's a traitor pure and simple and should be treated as such.

Lethal injection would be too kind."

Reply:

Since when is the United States of America a communist country? From what I remember we are a government by and for the people, not a government who get's rid of those with different views.

The first amendment guarantees freedom of speach, and our forefathers didn't mean freedom of speach except when the information was classified.

As a 13th generation Virginian whose family came here in 1609, I can honestly say you either need help or need to pull your head out. Why do you think people came to this country in the first place? To get away from government control!

we need more people like him to step up and do what is right. i bet there are alot of people in similar circumstances...know that something is wrong, but afraid of stepping forward. 'they' will drag tice over the coals to try to set an example........but, what if a number of people began stepping forward with info...1 or 2 are just disgruntled workers....8, 9, 13, becomes more of an issue...

i will type it again....we need more people like him to step forward

"There is a power so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so persuasive that prudent men had better not speak above their breath when they speak of it." -- Woodrow Wilson

What many people are overlooking is that there ARE systems in place to balance these activities. There ARE reporting channels that cleared employees can use to report fraud, waste, abuse, and illegal activities within government agencies. There ARE honorable and decent men and women who work within these agencies who would never assume to act unilaterally - without congressional oversight and judicial review. Members of congress were briefed on these activites, and the budgets for these activites (where congress can exercise its power over the executive branch) were approved.

What remains to be seen is if this joker actually tried to USE any of these reporting/failsafe systems before he went a ran his mouth to the most anti-administration newspaper in this land. I smell book deals, TV interviews, and the lecture circuit.

The man is a confessed felon, IMHO. Send him to Ft. Leavenworth.

Quote:

"What many people are overlooking is that there ARE systems in place to balance these activities. There ARE reporting channels that cleared employees can use to report fraud, waste, abuse, and illegal activities within government agencies. There ARE honorable and decent men and women who work within these agencies who would never assume to act unilaterally - without congressional oversight and judicial review. Members of congress were briefed on these activites, and the budgets for these activites (where congress can exercise its power over the executive branch) were approved.

What remains to be seen is if this joker actually tried to USE any of these reporting/failsafe systems before he went a ran his mouth to the most anti-administration newspaper in this land. I smell book deals, TV interviews, and the lecture circuit.

The man is a confessed felon, IMHO. Send him to Ft. Leavenworth."

Reply:
When the system fails, like it has, what should he do then? Our fore fathers never would have let the government keep secrets from the people. That's why they came here, to get away from corrupt government. The man may have broken the law, but all of the executive branch have as well for failing to enforce it, even among their own.

For what I have read so far I can see how a dictatorship would work in our country, is so many that will willingly give away their freedoms to support this administration.

I can see also how willingly many would want our government to silence the media and only approve a government friendly one.

Yeah, 'cause this administration is very open to people expressing opinions in opposition to the "official" line isn't it? Personally, if I were in the Federal Gov't I would NOT go through official channels to complain about policy because all that does is send a red flag up for them to get rid of you, discredit you, out your CIA wife, or SOMETHING before the information is available to the public. He did it the right way. He blew the whistle in a public place so he couldn't be knocked off mid-blow.

I think he's a hero. Give the man a medal.

You may consider the NYT the "most anti-administration" newpaper in the land, but they are also the largest newspaper in the country and that probably had far more to do with his choice to go to them with the information. If he'd given the info to the Wichita Gazette would that make you feel better about his intentions? Do you feel any newspaper isn't anti-administration? What paper should he have given his information to?

Those who have never had to fight for what they have forget what it takes to be free. We are now living amongst many of those and they have no clue until the knock comes at their door late in the night and they are led off to board the box cars themselves. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

We're working our way up

Seriously though, it's been argued that our news media is filtered more staunchly than it was in the USSR at it's peak of power--there are so many things that are not reported. Certainly we are not a communist country, but hardly a true democracy.

I believe in the current day and age that we have a goverment by certain people for certain people.

Like it or not, right or wrong, the US government among others have--for many decades--partaken in many activities that would be appaling to most citizens, whether it was for the benefit of many, or few.

As a confessed felon, I'm guessing this guy has something on someone to ensure his credibility (what little he may have), well-being, and his and safety.

Yeah for the whistleblowers!

We need more.

This government's checks and balances have been dismantled and neutralized right along with our Constitutional Rights. No one is allowed to speak up, look around, or do anything. Unless they're part of the in-crowd.

Not what America was meant to be. Ever.

I heard this guy talking on the radio, actually I think it was a peek into the interview he had with cbs or something. but, well, he said he wasn't worried about being arrested because he doesn't plan on saying anything that is classified....is it possible to classify a illegal operation, or maybe they were just in too much of a hurry to classify this one?

well, if the government has nothing to hide, then they have nothing to fear from whistleblowers, right?

Actually he may not even be able to talk to the congress at all, it seems that members of the congress do not have enough Security clearance to be able to heard what he has to said.

So that is enough for him to be violating the law even if he wants the congress to know how much Bush was violating the constitutional rights of the American people.

So if the congress can not protect us because "Security clearance" then who is next to keep the Bush administration in balance.

Good find marg.

And so much for those vaunted checks and balances. They just don't exist any more.

Why is it that this has become OH SO IMPORTANT?
We knew this was being attempted before, "carnivore", "Eschelon"
But now all the sudden it's like a huge surprise?
Whats the motive for talking about this now?

anyone?

Not a surprise, but a controversy.

You should have seen the telecom techies eating alive the FBI lawyer introducing Carnivore at NANOG, in October 2000. It's not that phone companies don't want to cooperate with law enforcement in catching the bad guys. They just don't appreciate getting their own switches abducted by those obscure black boxes sucking all phone calls and emails without warrant no matter whether the citizens were charged of a crime or not.

At least that NSA guy got the balls to step forward, and as he said, he didn't leak any classified info. He simply shed the spotlight on questionable practices conducted by government on a powertrip.

I gotcha.
I meant surprise, in a sarcastic way.
It just seems like a tactical move, the timing that is.