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SCI/TECH: Earth to Mars in 3 hours possible?

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posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 02:27 AM
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This actually isn't too far off from a couple of theories I've had (though mine have involved using intense gravity fields to fold space-time, rather than jumping into an alternate universe). Actually, it's not far off from the propulsion theory used in the film Event Horizon.

As far as the intertial forces, I seem to recall reading an article a while back about some French scientists that had developed a sort of inertial dampener, that created an "inertia free zone" around a vesel. Theoretically, it would allow supersonic atmospheric flight without the sonic boom, and also permit manoeuvers that are impossible with conventional aircraft (such as a tight turn at full burn (around mach 5-6)). I believe the device was based on magnetic fields as well, creating a bubble inside which the effects of external inertia would not be felt - the bubble would be subjected to the external inertia, yet the objects/people inside the bubble would not, due to being shielded. I can't remember if the article said anything about its usefulness in space, however. I'll post a link to the article if I'm able to find it again.

On the artificial gravity front, I actually have a fairly good theory on it (based on experiments that have been proven to work - namely magnetic levitation).

Since the human body is used to existing in an enviornment with a certain amount of magnetic pull (the Earth), theoretically, couldn't we create a magnetic gravity generator that would either push from the top, or pull from the bottom, in order to simulate gravity. The theory I have (and I'll simplify it greatly here), relies on a form of polarized wire mesh that would create a magnetic field that would pull (or push) at our own internal magnetic fields (since we are electrically based creatures, we do have an innate magnetic field, resulting from the polarity of the electrical charges that run through our bodies), thus simulating Earth's gravity (and could also potentially simulate higher or lower gravity fields, in order to attune people to them, given that the chances of us finding a planet that's exactly like Earth, even gravitationally, are probably pretty slim).

Magnetic levitation experiements have been successful with biological matter (including small animals, such as frogs), so why not use it on a larger scale to simulate gravity aboard a spacecraft for humans? The biggest questions I have regarding this theory is what the effects would be on the human body itsel (especially long term)f, as well as other materials around it (for instance, would it have a stronger or weaker push/pull on steel, and what would be the ramifications of that?). Obviously, items with no magnetic fields, such as plastics, would still remain weightless (though that could be changed the moment you introduce electricity into the plastic item - such as with a laptop computer).

I think that at least crude answers to all of the questions we're asking are well within our grasp, technologically, making this all possible. In the world of Quantum Physics, every possibility exists simultaineously, so you can never fully reject any possibilities. The trick is to achieve the desired possibility. I think we know how, and I know we can.

[edit on 6-1-2006 by obsidian468]




posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 04:40 AM
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The article casually talks about traveling in other dimensions. Is the existence of multi-dimensions now the consensus of the scientific comunity?



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
The article casually talks about traveling in other dimensions. Is the existence of multi-dimensions now the consensus of the scientific comunity?


Hasn't there always been consensus that there are atleast 3-dimensions?



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 09:11 AM
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I have no trouble accepting that there are alternate dimensions relative to our own; string theory allows for that easily enough. And I can accept that we may be able to access one of these other dimensions using the technology described in the article.

But I can't help but have reservations about the unexpected effects of this process.

For instance, how can we be sure that the strong and weak nuclear forces even exist in this other dimension, much less at precisely the same strength as they influence our own? Without them, any matter entering that dimension would simply disintegrate.

And there's also the question of whether leaving that dimension would be as easy as entering it. Sure, we can shunt ourselves off in that direction with the proper application of high-intensity electromagnetic energy, but will the same process bring us back home? Will that process even work there?

While I'm sure the folks that developed this theoretical device have considered the above questions, I'd like to hear what my fellow ATSers have to say about them.


apc

posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 09:42 AM
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I have a feeling the term "dimension" is used here as more of a relation to the layperson rather than actually implying travel to a universe where everyone has goatees.

If it were possible to create a gravity bubble that folded back in on itself, it could also be possible that this bubble would form its own isolated "universe" where the laws of physics could be manipulated. Disengaging the gravity drive would pop the bubble returning the craft to our universe.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Attero Auctorita

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
The article casually talks about traveling in other dimensions. Is the existence of multi-dimensions now the consensus of the scientific comunity?


Hasn't there always been consensus that there are atleast 3-dimensions?


According to current consensus there Spacetime is a 4 dimensional structure, 3 spacial and one of spacetime(the fabric of reality so to speak)

Conversly this is an 8-dimensional model.

[edit on 6-1-2006 by sardion2000]



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by Griff
Funny how this scientist came up with this idea in the 50's. When Rosewell was what, in 1947? And yes, it seams very close to the ufo propulsion systems. Coincidence? I doubt it.



Im thinking, coincedence. Besides, your missing the whole "hypothetical" clause in this theory.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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I'm no physicist (that whole balancing the checkbook thing is beyond me
, but the energy required to do this must be staggering, even to punching through to this other dimension.
It does sound exciting though. Where do I sign up for the colonization ship?



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
I'm no physicist (that whole balancing the checkbook thing is beyond me
, but the energy required to do this must be staggering, even to punching through to this other dimension.
It does sound exciting though. Where do I sign up for the colonization ship?


It would require a Z machine

www.sandia.gov...

Which we have right now that is what is most staggering about this.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 11:08 AM
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imagine only 10% of all the theories about our world being in contact with extraterrestrials is true, it would be absurd not to believe we have not traveled beyond our moon and solar system.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 11:20 AM
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Sardion.
Thanks for the link. one word only. Wow. Even I can begin to imagine the possibilities contained within that research. OMG! I am definitly going to have to brush up on my extraterrestrial survival skills. Totally cool.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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Isn't this how the Robinson family's troubles started? When this craft goes into another dimension who's to say that direction and distance in this dimension has any relation to the dimension it is entering? Lots of grey areas here.

By the way if you are in a metalworking profession you have to have a full body X-ray done before you have an MRI to see if you have any slivers that might injure you when the magnetic field rips them out of you.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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hmm, if this was available in 1950 i was wondering if it could have anything to do with the philadelphia experiment. hmmmm.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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They did'nt have a Z-machine back then



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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..with all the experiments, both government funded and even hobby level, of gauss cannons, and high powered magnetic fields, there has been absolutely *no* observed "antigravitational" phenomena?

"levitiation" by creating a magnetic field of opposite polarity over another magnet is not antigravity. Otherwise, I'm doing it right now with no power input and two old hard-drive magnets.

This would be the Holy Grail of physics-the actual experimental proof of linkage between strong and weak forces. The biggest thing since sliced antimatter. But no rumble of this on the journals? No accidental discoveries by anyone like this guy? www.powerlabs.org

I recommend that the "Baloney Detection Kit" be called upon for this.

And as for "official" interest in this, even NASA got involved in the whole "lifter" craze and found that there was no "antigravity" there either-the process only works when there's atmosphere to ionize and "pump" for lift (an electric jet engine)

Sadly, we're stuck here, unless we gather the patience to travel worldship style or develop human hibernation.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by apc
Frequency is the key word in all of those references. ...Frequency and amplitude together determine whether or not an EMF has a biological impact. Field type also is a determination. Electromagnetic radiation (microwaves, for instance) obviously has an impact on life.


We are still learning as you point out. Life is complex - the direct effects are biological; health impacts are indirect - many factors influence the health outcome of exposures.





As your own references state, this is a subject matter that remains to be explored. But as our knowledge exists today, encapsulating an organic entity in an induced electromagnetic field will not have a measurable biological effect. This understanding may change with time, but this is how it is today.


The direct biological effects are observable and measurable; the indirect health effects are another matter - many are delayed, and/or subject to other's factors influence and determination.




"Our studies have contributed to what many other studies have shown, and that is that there is a biological effect of the energy imparted by extremely low frequency EMF (ELF-EMF) on living systems," Trosko said. ...Trosko and his colleagues studied the effects of ELF-EMF on mouse leukemia cells that had the potential to mature into cells producing hemoglobin after exposure to a chemical. Hemoglobin is the substance which is needed to bind oxygen in blood. They found that electromagnetic fields of 60 hertz and of strengths ranging from .05 to 10 gauss interfered with the chemically induced maturation process in the mouse cells and allowed the cells to continue to proliferate.

What Trosko and his colleagues found is that ELF/EMF is not a tumor initiator, but rather a potential tumor promoter. ..."ELF-EMF doesn't seem to mutate genes, which could convert a normal cell to an 'initiated' cell," he said. "But it can turn them on and off at inappropriate times, causing these initiated cells to proliferate when normally they would just sit there quietly doing nothing." ..."The whole point of our study was not to see if extremely low frequency EMF causes cancer, but if it changes gene expression," Trosko said. "The bottom line is we showed there is a biological effect of EMF as measured by altering the expression of the hemoglobin-producing gene.

"I think it's important to note that there is a distinction between a biological effect and a health effect. ..."Most importantly, in order to act as a tumor promoter, many conditions must be met, including the ability of the promoter to overcome natural suppressing effects on cell proliferation, timing of the exposure to the promoter, absence of anti-promoters, and exposure for regular and long periods of time."

Electromagnetic Fields Affect Human Cells




posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 07:08 PM
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I have a diagram that I did back in the 90's, when my then stepson asked me how the ufos propelled themselves. Problem is that I can't upload it from my documents onto this forum.

I had originally hand drawn the diagram, but it later went missing. I did it on computer from memory as best as I could. The original went missing in '96, when I was staying with somebody when I got seperated from my ex-husband.

The original was hand-drawn in '93. I had dated it and everything. I just was unable to copyright it.

love, light and peace



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by rachel07
I have a diagram that I did back in the 90's, when my then stepson asked me how the ufos propelled themselves. Problem is that I can't upload it from my documents onto this forum.

I had originally hand drawn the diagram, but it later went missing. I did it on computer from memory as best as I could. The original went missing in '96, when I was staying with somebody when I got seperated from my ex-husband.

The original was hand-drawn in '93. I had dated it and everything. I just was unable to copyright it.

love, light and peace


I hope your not trying to tell us that, the American goverment robed your design.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Then, when the ship isn't in accelerating, you would lose your artificial gravity, so to maintain a simulated 1 G environment, you would need to be constantly accelerating at 1 G, regardless of where you were, even if you were at your destination.


The constant acceleration of 32ft/sec/sec would create atificial gravity and could be maintained like you said, but at the half-way point of interplanetary trips, the craft would have to do a 180 and decellerate at the same rate to maintain gravity as it slows down. Weightlessness would only occur during this mid-point transition.

I still believe that it would be easier to create a device that would bend time and space than it is to win the lottery!



posted on Jan, 7 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by obsidian468
As far as the intertial forces, I seem to recall reading an article a while back about some French scientists that had developed a sort of inertial dampener, that created an "inertia free zone" around a vesel. Theoretically, it would allow supersonic atmospheric flight without the sonic boom, and also permit manoeuvers that are impossible with conventional aircraft (such as a tight turn at full burn (around mach 5-6)). I believe the device was based on magnetic fields as well, creating a bubble inside which the effects of external inertia would not be felt - the bubble would be subjected to the external inertia, yet the objects/people inside the bubble would not, due to being shielded. I can't remember if the article said anything about its usefulness in space, however. I'll post a link to the article if I'm able to find it again.

They had that in the puddle-jumpers on the TV show Stargate Atlantis



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