Chavez Ships Discounted Heating Oil to Needy US Families, page 3
Pages: <<  1    2    3  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 0 times


reply posted on 29-12-2005 @ 05:32 PM by Sri Oracle
Originally posted by FEMA
"Get off the crack." I, somehow, expected better of you than an ad hominem attack in which you trying to impinge my character in an effort to dismiss my point. I was wrong.


Before you storm off so offended, please reread. "Get off the crack" was within the quotes of what needs said to anyone heating their home on oil. Crack being a metaphor I used for the addiction to oil. No direct assault on your character. I do not insinuate you are a crackhead. I insinuate that attempting to sustainably stay warm in New England on petro is crackheaded.


I'm a firefighter.


Admittedly, your saying that made me recount my logic. You have a strong point. However... Steven Covey still applies.

The more of your career that you spend increasing the awareness of those around you of the hazards of fire, fire safety, collaborating with localities on fire safe building codes, and teaching folks not to build in areas where forests cyclically reburn... the less smokey hell holes the next generation of firefighters will have to climb into. Can you see that truth? Chavez sat tight on the issue of the oncoming NE heating oil crisis until the fire bell rang. Then he was there in an instant... in hero's clothes. That is just a little too 'lawyer at the scene of an accident' for me.

When compared to the average firefighter I would hope that a world leader whould be focusing an even greater percentage of their time on improving future conditions for the next generation. Focusing on "important, but not urgent" activities. The cold people in NE will survive with or without Chavez's oil donation. New englanders know blankets and thermals underwear. With it however they will be lulled into believing they can go on like this. I say it is better for them to experience a little cold weather camping.

It is not like Chavez offered this oil to help the US fuel machinery to dig subterrainian homes that are held at a constant 62 F by natural forces. That would be an act of admirable high minded compassion and making use of resources for social equity rather than immediate consumption.

It is more wise to teach a man to fish, than to feed them fish when they are hungry. Especially when they are hungry.

I know... say that to the man in the burning building screaming "help me"

A Parable from The Sutra of The Lotus Flower of the Wonderful Law

"I shall give you these three vehicles, make an effort to run out of this triple world."

Sri Oracle



[edit on 29-12-2005 by Sri Oracle]


reply posted on 29-12-2005 @ 09:16 PM by FEMA
"Before you storm off so offended . . . "


I was not offended in the least, I really did respond to an MVA. Firefighters in general have pretty thick skin, but we are cursed with a sensitivity equal to our powers of perception (a recipe for heartbreak.)

"The more of your career that you spend increasing the awareness of those around you of the hazards of fire, fire safety, collaborating with localities on fire safe building codes, and teaching folks not to build in areas where forests cyclically reburn... the less smokey hell holes the next generation of firefighters will have to climb into.


Interesting that you bring up these points. I am a trainer/facilitator who does just that. I further teach the S-102 Wild Fire Suppression course. Why? Because I can't afford to "Allow them to suffer their fate."

Admittedly, your saying that made me recount my logic. You have a strong point.


I am *utterly and honestly* heartened that you reviewed your logic. Your statement sincerely warms my heart as it would that of any humanitarian along with my vocational counterparts.

"Chavez sat tight on the issue of the oncoming NE heating oil crisis until the fire bell rang. Then he was there in an instant... in hero's clothes.


In my line of work I can't afford to make that call. All I can do is determine if help arrived or not. My point all along is one of pointing out that help would be arriving and that help is a good thing. The motivation of the sender does not diminish the benefit of his action to those in utter need. Those were, and continue to be, my only two points. They are quite seperate from the political or motivational aspects of why Chavez decided to send help and thus may be the *only issue* between us - perspective.

My friend, you can take this to the bank: I would fight an army of men to save your life. To do anything less, well, I could not live with myself. EMTs, police, firefighters are no different than the average Joe, never let anyone tell you different. We are simply tied and bound by a thread of humanity that will never allow us to turn our backs.

Into the dragon's mouth I'll walk for thee.


reply posted on 29-12-2005 @ 11:46 PM by Sri Oracle
Originally posted by FEMA
Interesting that you bring up these points. I am a trainer/facilitator who does just that. I further teach the S-102 Wild Fire Suppression course. Why? Because I can't afford to "Allow them to suffer their fate."


God bless. That is righteous thinking. Leave nothing undone.


I am *utterly and honestly* heartened that you reviewed your logic.

This oracle has an admittedly over active third eye... sometimes you have to keep the hallucinations in check. I have been told I live in a dream world.


The motivation of the sender does not diminish the benefit of his action to those in utter need.


I would adjust that statement to read: The motivation of the sender does not diminish the accute benefits of his actions to those in utter need. Sure, they'll stay toasty warm this winter. As the deck of cards plays itself out however, the motivation (true desire) of the sender will show its head. Does the damage to the world due to the burning of yet another ship full of oil outweigh the loss of a couple of dozen lifes due to cold in an area where millions try to heat their homes solely with fossil fuels regardless of the long term financial and ecological impossibility? I don't know... a dozen lives is a very valuable thing. On the other hand another ship full of pollution certainly doesn't help aunt sally's cancer.


swami nikihilananda
An ignorant person regards a desire as a friend when he is craving its fulfilment, but realizes it to be an enemy when he discovers that suffering alone is the after-effect of enjoyment. But a wise man, even before suffering the consequence of a desire, knows it to be an evil; he does not have to wait for the result.


Aparigraha is the virtue of denying unnecessary gifts. "No thank you" I say on behalf of my people. We'll suffer this winter in the cold and make preperations to live off the energy grid in coming years. I proclaim this as a voice of the unaligned new movement some call "New Puritan". We demand organic food. We avoid plastics and oil. We use hand tools. We know the shortcomings of consumerism and can invision its impending collapse.


My friend, you can take this to the bank: I would fight an army of men to save your life. To do anything less, well, I could not live with myself....Into the dragon's mouth I'll walk for thee.


Thanks and praises.

My friend, you can take this to the bank: I crawl along the razor's edge for thee.
and on the days I'm about to slip off... I'm usually considering something like how much energy could be saved if someone accidentally cut off the electricity to my block for a few hours.

Oracle

[edit on 29-12-2005 by Sri Oracle]



reply posted on 30-12-2005 @ 05:00 AM by FEMA
I have been told I live in a dream world.


I would not make that assertion. Your comments, when taken in the context of political agendas ussurping the general good of people, hold to be mostly true.

After all, most politicians will gleefully agree to lead the parade that bears news of a new oil deal, a new nuclear plant, a new coal fired hydro utility, but are generally nowhere to be found when funding for R&D of new, clean and sustainable technologies is needed. But once those new technologies hit the street, watch those politicians line up to lead that parade.

In short, you're right with regard to the political landscape of today.

This also might hearten you. I once ran for a political position wherein I could directly affect how garbage would be handled in this area. I opted for a PEM system - Plasma Enhanced Melter. Such a system virtually destroys everything fed into it leaving a minimal amount of 100%-inert solids that can be ground into road material. There is no air polution created - certainly none by comparison to that of typical incinceration. In fact, material/ash from those incinerators is sent to PEM systems to be completely destroyed. Moreover, the heat generated by the burning of garbage in a PEM system can be turned into hydro electric power and fed back into the grid.

My proposal was one of handling garbage in a responsible manner by using a PEM system, and at the same time fueling it will garbage slated to go into landfill sites thereby leaving the land alone. Also, I proposed digging up the older land fill sites to have that garbage burned thus fueling the ability of the PEM system to supply clean hydro electric power all the while cleaning up the environment in doing so.

Funny, people thought that the trucking of the garbage - from the old dumps - would cost too much. The reality of the situation was that they are going to pay for that garbage, and what it finally does to their water/environment, one way or the other. They didn't get it.

They thought that the cost of the PEM system might be too much. I pointed out that handling garbage costs money any way, and handling it imporperly costs far more than they know. That revenue could be gained from other townships looking for a place to get rid of their garbage. That the dumping tax gained (they call it a tipping charge) from those townships wanting to get rid of their garbage would fund the project on a very short ROI (return on investment.) Also, those townships would be cleaner as a result of them sending their trash to our township --- that such an action would, in effect, be sending our township fuel to supply lower cost hydro electric power, not to mention provide badly needed employment for our area.

The people decided to look at the older incineration system. They soon came to discover that they had to pay to have the ash disposed of and that the air quality coming from that incineration system was not good at all.

Millions of dollars later, and a few politicians now claiming that it was their brain child, they are looking at the PEM system - go figure.


reply posted on 30-12-2005 @ 09:42 AM by Sri Oracle
Originally posted by Saphronia
this guy doesn't live in the midwest cause aint no campfire gone keep you warm when there's a foot of snow on the ground and temperature is a couple a degrees below zero.


A campfire will, in the wood burning stove or properly built fireplace, of a 500 sqft log home keep any man cozy in climate zone 6. My uncle lives like this with his wife and newborn just fine in northern New Jersey. Mom lives 30 minutes away from him and complains about her $600/mo heating bill for her 2800 sqft McMansion with 'beautiful' vaulted ceilings. Gram lives in the same area too... on a fixed government income... would certainly qualify as financially "Needy"... and yet she refuses to light a fire in the solid granite firebox my grandfather buillt for her. When grandpa was alive there were logs stacked at the back door and she could certainly have a stack delivered... It doesn't take a lot to keep the thermal mass (granite) hot once heated. instead she just complains to my uncle that the thermostat on the oil burner just doesn't keep her warm enough. Besides... whatever the bill is... she'll just pay it... The government checks roll in month after month. I love mom and gram... but they impose their own self misery where heating their home is concerned. Mom can do it because dad is a corporate exec who spends 60 hours a week at the office. Gram can do it because the government heavily taxes my log splittin ass so I am forced to pay for her oil even if I do not personally use it.

And yes... I do own 10 acres in Missouri. But until I have a low energy usage home built there... I'm spending my winters in Florida renovating post storm condemned buildings. Monthly energy utility averge for this winter... $30 (one fridge, one computer, a few 13w light bulbs, and a the occasional power tool)

Oracle
Pages: <<  1    2    3  >>    ^^TOP^^